The Red Fox

Confirmed

1990 - Knocking off Hawthorn in Round 22 by 12 points, then returning to the 'G a week later and beating them by 9 points in front of 75,000 fans in the Elimination Final. TC held Dunstall to 15 touches and 5 goals across both games. Peter Rodhe did the job on Dermie, and even Ricky Jackson had a day out! 2002 - Driving down from Noosa with my girlfriend to watch the Dees play the Lions at the GABBA. The Dees gave Brisbane eight goals before rolling over the top on a glorious afternoon. Neita was irrepressible and Chris Lamb indomitable on Lynch. to be continued...

Spoke to Billy about the game last night, he's in!!! Blessed and Wise will be lining up in the guts again!!

Let's throw up Sat 1st or Sun 2nd November as possible dates, and see whether we can gather a sufficient amount of interest in the coming days to warrant proceeding. Fullmont, are you confident you can field a team at such short notice? We could play on Collingwood's training ground again. Come on Demonlanders. We owe 'em one for Judd

Criteria being 100 MFC games or 100 MFC goals. FULL BACK........... Steven FEBEY........... Sean WIGHT............... Graeme YEATES HALF BACK........... Brett LOVETT........... Anthony INGERSON ..... Andrew OBST CENTRE............... Adem YZE................ Shane WOEWODIN....... Steven TINGAY HALF FORWARD...... Russell ROBERTSON.... David SCHWARZ.......... Gary LYON FULL FORWARD..... Allen JAKOVICH......... David NEITZ............... Jeff FARMER RUCKS................ Jim STYNES.............. Glenn LOVETT............. Todd VINEY INTERCHANGE...... Cameron BRUCE........ Andrew LEONCELLI........ Jeff WHITE.......... Brad GREEN Apologies to Peter RODHE, Matty WHELAN, 'Chopper' LOVELL, Matthew FEBEY.

No no I won't take you up on the challenge. Disdain was not only too strong a word, it was a totally inaccurate opinion I'd hastily formed based on your questioning of his skills and decision making. My apologies. Quick research suggests you're actually a staunch defender of Belly. With regards to yours and Titans comments about the skew effect of the past two seasons, you're both absolutely right, and I touched on that in my first post. And while these stats don't reflect well on fringe players who often break into the side when the team is weakened with injuries and more susceptible to losses. It also demonstrates (the obvious) that fringe players are not match winners. While these stats are trivial, they are somewhat accurate in intent to the extent that we haven't yet seen a gun player with a negative ratio, while players with question marks like Miller and Bell show just that.

You're missing the point... FWIW Robbie Flower 1973-1987 Playing 88 wins, 184 losses, 32.4% Missing 17 wins, 44 losses, 27.9% And mate given your disdain for Daniel Bell, here are his figures. Daniel Bell 2004- Playing 22 wins, 40 losses, 35.5% Missing 26 wins, 25 losses, 50.9%

Ashley Hansen 2004- Playing 47 wins, 20 losses, 70.1% Missing 24 wins, 29 losses, 45.3% Nick Riewoldt 2001- Playing 79 wins, 74 losses, 51.7% Missing 10 wins, 14 losses, 41.7%

Garry Lyon 1986-1999 Playing 127 wins, 98 losses, 56.4% Missing 29 wins, 70 losses, 29.3% Trav Johnstone 1998-2007 Playing 78 wins, 81 losses, 49.1% Missing 33 wins, 39 losses, 45.8% David Neitz 1993-2008 Playing 140 wins, 166 losses, 45.8% Missing 18 wins, 40 losses, 31% Allen Jakovich 1991-1994 Playing 25 wins, 22 losses, 53.1% Missing 20 wins, 23 losses, 46.7% Stephen Tingay 1989-1999 Playing 88 wins, 74 losses, 54.3% Missing 31 wins, 58 losses, 34.8%

Great players win games! Simple comparison… Let's say a players career has spanned from 2004-2008. Let us look at the Demons win/loss ratio in games they've played in, versus the win/loss ratio in games they've been absent. Naturally players might have missed chunks of particularly good or bad seasons, and that might skew the numbers, but even considering that, I'm sure this analysis will give us some insight into who is most valuable with regards to getting us the four points. Or mosre precisely, just how valuable they are And conversely, whose inclusion weakens the team. Let's start with some obvious candidates for 'most important player'. Brock McLean 2004- Playing 33 wins, 41 losses, 44.6% Missing 15 wins, 24 losses, 38.5% Jared Rivers 2003- Playing 34 wins, 35 losses, 49.3% Missing 19 wins, 47 losses, 28.8% Aaron Davey 2004- Playing 44 wins, 52 losses, 45.8% Missing 4 wins, 13 losses, 23.5% Brad Miller 2002- Playing 41 wins, 68 losses, 37.6% Missing 25 wins, 25 losses, 50% Russell Robertson 1997- Playing 102 wins, 112 losses, 47.7% Missing 16 wins, 45 losses, 26.2% Cameron Bruce 2000- Playing 81 wins, 102 losses, 44.3% Missing 11 wins, 12 losses, 47.8% I'll punch away at the numbers and come up with some more, as well as look at perceived weak players, and a few past match winners like Neita and TJ. The figures above seem to underline the importance of having players like Robbo, Davey and Rivers fit and firing. Of course you could argue that their stats are flattered by the fact that they have missed most of the last two seasons when we've hardly won a game. The counter argument being that we've lost so many because the aforementioned players (and others) have been off the park. Hmmm...

You're kidding me right? He came home with a wet sail to take second in the Grand final sprint a couple of years back... crossing the line hot on the heels of Deledio. He's got a few issues, but pace isn't one of them.

Krazy read carefully... those fixtures would still occur once a year. You play every other team in your conference twice, and the teams in the other conference once.

Do you think Billy "Blessed Hands" Morgan could get a run with the Dees atm. Actually he did a time trial around Princess Park last month, and his time would have placed him in the top three at the Bombers.

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So I can't rest my case on 337 examples of Brad Green being physical, when the opposing argument is that he NEVER has! What's wrong with you?

Deluded indeed. This misconception about Green absolutely astonishes me. He's laid 337 career tackles, but you're right... he NEVER gets physical!

Good thread... That core group of players who carried us to the finals in '00, '02, '04-'06 are now at retirement age. Remember 57 weeks ago we were 'having a crack at the flag', but the demise of Neita, Yze, White, Bizzell , Whelan and Pickett over the past two years suggests our best opportunity had already passed us by. Daniher built what he hoped would be a premiership side, he fell short, and now we start afresh. Interestingly, I read recently that Mark Thompson is already developing the next generation of Cats, despite the premiership window being open. That's the trick isn't it, to manage your list for the 'now' and the future.

Why thank you bub. Good to head a fellow voice of reason. I've been mortified by some peoples selections. How can you justify dropping Wheatley? Or Robbo - when he's our only dangerous forward. With respect to Green, I'd have him in the midfield rotation, but I'd like to see him playing half the game forward and withing goal kicking range. Bate at FF has merit, clean hands, good kick, and will allow him maximum game time despite questionable fitness. Given we seem to be playing with seven defenders, I'd like to see the following nine rotated through the back line as the season progresses. Rivers, Carroll, Frawley, Martin, Wheatley, Whelan, Bell, Sylvia & Bartram.

So he's hitting the ball up well (which is exactly what a CHF ought to do) but he hasn't been good? Remember I said good, not brilliant or match winning. I defy anyone to say that Miller's been a better defender than he has a forward. If he's ever going to make it, it'll be up forward where he's at least serviceable. Rivers doesn't and won't play full back. Carroll and Frawley will get a shot on Bradshaw first. Rivers will go to Brown. Or, if I had it my way, Martin and Rivers (spare defender) would double team him.

Actually he has. What games are you watching Danny? Brad's been good when he's played CHF this year. Please tell me what positive influence he will have in defense? He's been a liability when put up back over the years. And now that Rivers is back and Frawley's in the team, he's surplus to our defensive needs. Give him the challenge of providing a contest and showing leadership up forward in Neita's absence.

Why would you drop Carroll only to replace him with Miller up back? He's a forward!! Why after three years can't you spell Moloney?

From limited reports, Meesen was average with Sandy in his first game back from injury. Match fitness and form should be found with the Zebras. Let's reward good form - give Martin the nod. Jeff can shoulder the ruck load, and Martin gives us another big body up back if/when Brown and Bradshaw get on top.

OUT: Neitz (inj) Whelan (susp) Jamar, Moloney IN: Miller, Bate, Valenti, Martin B: James Frawley, Nathan Carroll, Clint Bartram HB: Cameron Bruce, Jared Rivers, Colin Sylvia C: Paul Wheatley, Brock McLean, Cale Morton HF: Matthew Bate, Brad Miller, Aaron Davey F: Brad Green, Russell Robertson, Austin Wonaeamirri Foll: Jeff White, James McDonald, Nathan Jones Int: Lyden Dunn, Daniel Bell, Stefan Martin, Shane Valenti Emg: Colin Garland, Brent Moloney, Chris Johnson Match-ups Bradshaw usually has his way with Carroll. I'd give the job to Frawley who will at least will learn from the experience. Best defender should get the best forward, so Rivers should go to Brown. But DB might want Jared playing 3rd man up, so in the spirit of development, welcome to the AFL Stefan Martin. Physically, he's our most suitable match-up. Collingwood's Nathan Brown got the big jobs early on, let's show the same faith in our young chargers. Bruce on Brennan. Frawley gets a shot if Carroll goes to Bradshaw.

The elected leadership group consisted of: David Neitz (captain), Cameron Bruce, Brad Miller, Brock McLean, Adem Yze, James McDonald and Russell Robertson. Of those Neita is injured, Yze can't get a game, and McLean has been temporarily demoted. That leaves us with Bruce, Miller, McDonald & Robbo. So who should lead us through the next two months and beyond?