ignition.

As requested I have copy and pasted this post over to this thread. As requested I'll provide a write up on my take of the Thymosin beta 4 over the coming week. Originally posted here: http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37454-afl-involved-in-port-adelaideessendon-draft-rort/page-7 ------ As I made it clear on here a couple times, I am a Biochemist. I have spent years and years working in a lab and going through the scientific literature, although my work and field revolves around cancer or more specifically the processes and mechanisms of cancer invasion. So when the names of the agents or peptides were released the first thing I did was look them up on the appropriate databases where they would have been originally published in peer reviewed journals (PubMed, Web of Science, etc.) - Not Google which cites websites created by the likes of you and I. So with regards to my scientific background it's actually quite easy for me to read the scientific literature (on new or different drugs) and incorporate or adapt my broad understanding of the molecular signalling pathways (of a cell) that contribute to a range of physiological functions within the body (e.g. muscular hypertrophy and lipolysis). Now aside from the concepts of "cheating" or "lack of governance" - for what the Essenond football club has been punished for, what has concerned me far more is the simple fact that very little is known about the long term effects of these drugs. The drugs injected have been poorly characterized and like that of AOD-9604 potentially carcinogenic. For example the peptide (a small sequence of amino acids - the natural building blocks of proteins) AOD-9604 was designed to mimic the active site of the Human Growth Hormone (HGH) that has been scientifically supported on numerous occasions to increase the risks of cancer with those that use it in an overexpressed fashion (like that of gym junkies, not necessarily those with a deficiency). (NOTE: Active site = part that interacts with the receptor, in this case the cellular growth factor receptor (GFR) that initiates an internal (cellular) signalling cascade) Originally the general design concept behind AOD-9604 was to develop a form of the HGH with fewer side effects by essentially removing the overall protein and other protein-protein interactive sites to only leave the region that performs it's main function - the "active site", this could potentially be a welcome addition for those requiring HGH supplementation due to a deficiency. However, the links to the HGH and cancer are most likely due to the overexpression of the downstream GFR pathways - not the additional regulatory regions of the protein, so there is probably a similar trend with AOD-9604. Although "probably" is just as much the problem, the fact is we don't know enough about the long term side effects of it, and Essendon chose to inject the players whilst going against the opinions of the club doctor and other medicos (those most highly qualified) potentially putting the players long term health at risk. Whether ASADA sent an email confirming or denying it on the band substances list is beside the point, alternatively Mark "Bomber" Thompson's claims that it doesn't cause cancer is a blatant lie, he has no clue. Now lets get onto the injection of pig brain lysate the alleged biochemist Dank stated he used on the players. First things first it's from a pig, in no way will this give any form of performance enhancement, it will only increase the bodies natural immune response to generate antibodies as it's from a foreign organism (pig/ porcine) and again place the players at risk of developing long term health issues like prion disease (e.g. mad cows disease and kuru) as it's raw brain extract. Secondly to that this tells me Dank is and never was a biochemist like myself or my colleges, even the earliest of biochemists (honours students) would learn and pick up on something like this quite quickly within their starting careers. At the very most I can presume Dank has himself a degree in Science where he majored in Biochemistry - most likely graduating with D's, he has then gone to the Essendon football club, gained authority and injected the players with a number of poorly characterized and hazardous substances. This is the equivalent of getting a kid out of high school having done year 12 wood work and putting him on a building site as the foreman. So there again is that lack of governance that Essendon has been punished for but what's worse is the lack of duty of care and long term well being of the players health that no the club has not been properly punished for. So it is my opinion that Paddy Ryder and any other player at the club can exercise their right to terminate their contract with the Essendon football club as they did not maintain their duty of care by placing the players long term health at risk, this must occur in every workplace across the country. Essendon should consider itself lucky that they are getting any form of trade as he can simply walk out, become a free agent and Essendon would be powerless to gain any form of compensation.

Sure thing, I'll post it across now. Thanks for the complement I haven't done as much reading on this one as it's name was released later - after I had gotten over hearing so much about the saga in the media. Although I'll give you my take on it, it's function and why I think Dank drew the links to use it in the other thread listed above (when I get the chance this to read a bit more, or want to procrastinate my own work ) Interestingly it plays a role in regulating the actin cytoskeleton - similar to bones within a cell (I do a lot of work with this). Actin (the protein) is also a major component of muscle and this is where Dank drew the link, although from what I can tell so far it appears to have been for all the wrong reasons and could suggest a link to the increased amount of soft tissue injuries. Thanks for the response, I think we all want this to be over and pass ASAP so we don't need to hear of it anymore. I'll always happy to see you on here Ash35.

I'm very torn on this. I can understand why people would happily see him go, if he is it should only be a straight swap for pick 11, we shouldn't pay any more. However I don't think he has had the correct opportunity or structures in place to thrive. His first two seasons were fantastic, he was progressing very well and as expected for our number two draft pick. Neeld then came along - further destroyed the list and culture. Trengove along with Grime took the brunt of the criticism and also injured his foot, lost his dash and was never really been the same. He just had this entire season off and I would rather see him have another pre-season / season at the Dees. For me I admire his tackling pressures, I think he'll develop into that Travis Boak like role who too doesn't have a lot of dash, and I would rather see Trengoveon our list for 2015. I can think of a few others I would rather see traded first.

Trengove and 21 for 12 is just ludicrous. I could accept Trengove alone for 12, although I wouldn't like it, but he and 21 NO WAY!

I disagree, the Essendon Football Club still believe they've done nothing wrong. They believe that if a player walks out on them before their contract ends that they can take them to court. So therefore it is in their best interest for both the player and club to seek a trade.

Agreed mate! I genuinely believe Cockatoo has all the traits that can make him a star, he certainly has a far greater probably anyway. The pro's here vastly outweigh the cons and if we go to the draft with picks 2 & 3 the "risk" of selecting him here would be less significant (even though i don't consider it a risk anyway). My only concern is that North Melbourne will pull the pin early at ~ pick 16 as they appear to be super keen.

I'm not writing to abuse you, however I will happily have a debate with you. As I made it clear on here a couple times, I am a Biochemist. I have spent years and years working in a lab and going through the scientific literature, although my work and field revolves around cancer or more specifically the processes and mechanisms of cancer invasion. So when the names of the agents or peptides were released the first thing I did was look them up on the appropriate databases where they would have been originally published in peer reviewed journals (PubMed, Web of Science, etc.) - Not Google which cites websites created by the likes of you and I. So with regards to my scientific background it's actually quite easy for me to read the scientific literature (on new or different drugs) and incorporate or adapt my broad understanding of the molecular signalling pathways (of a cell) that contribute to a range of physiological functions within the body (e.g. muscular hypertrophy and lipolysis). Now aside from the concepts of "cheating" or "lack of governance" - for what your club has been punished for, what has concerned me far more is the simple fact that very little is known about the long term effects of these drugs. The drugs injected have been poorly characterized and like that of AOD-9604 potentially carcinogenic. For example the peptide (a small sequence of amino acids - the natural building blocks of proteins) AOD-9604 was designed to mimic the active site of the Human Growth Hormone (HGH) that has been scientifically supported on numerous occasions to increase the risks of cancer with those that use it in an overexpressed fashion (like that of gym junkies, not necessarily those with a deficiency). (NOTE: Active site = part that interacts with the receptor, in this case the cellular growth factor receptor (GFR) that initiates an internal (cellular) signalling cascade) Originally the general design concept behind AOD-9604 was to develop a form of the HGH with fewer side effects by essentially removing the overall protein and other protein-protein interactive sites to only leave the region that performs it's main function - the "active site", this could potentially be a welcome addition for those requiring HGH supplementation due to a deficiency. However, the links to the HGH and cancer are most likely due to the overexpression of the downstream GFR pathways - not the additional regulatory regions of the protein, so there is probably a similar trend with AOD-9604. Although "probably" is just as much the problem, the fact is we don't know enough about the long term side effects of it, and your club chose to inject the players whilst going against the opinions of the club doctor and other medicos (those most highly qualified) potentially putting your players long term health at risk. Whether ASADA sent an email confirming or denying it on the band substances list is beside the point, alternatively Mark "Bomber" Thompson's claims that it doesn't cause cancer is a blatant lie, he has no clue. Now lets get onto the injection of pig brain lysate the alleged biochemist Dank stated he used on the players. First things first it's from a pig, in no way will this give any form of performance enhancement, it will only increase the bodies natural immune response to generate antibodies as it's from a foreign organism (pig/ porcine) and again place the players at risk of developing long term health issues like prion disease (e.g. mad cows disease and kuru) as it's raw brain extract. Secondly to that this tells me Dank is and never was a biochemist like myself or my colleges, even the earliest of biochemists (honours students) would learn and pick up on something like this quite quickly within their starting careers. At the very most I can presume Dank has himself a degree in Science where he majored in Biochemistry - most likely graduating with D's, he has then gone to the Essendon football club, gained authority and injected the players with a number of poorly characterized and hazardous. This is the equivalent of getting a kid out of high school having done year 12 wood work and putting him on a building site as the foreman. So there again is that lack of governance that yes your club has been punished for but what's worse is the lack of duty of care and long term well being of the players health that no your club has not been properly punished for. So it is my opinion that Paddy Ryder and any other player at the club can exercise their right to terminate their contract with the Essendon football club as they did not maintain their duty of care by placing the players long term health at risk, this must occur in every workplace across the country. Your club should consider itself lucky that they are getting any form of trade as he can simply walk out, become a free agent and Essendon would be powerless to gain any form of compensation.

I just wish Terlich wasn't re-signed as quickly as they did. Nothing against him, I just wish they left that option a little longer in case if something/ someone better came along. If not and they did eventuate in re-signing him later it may have given him a greater indication to pull his finger out and work harder over the pre-season by cleaning up his disposal (e.g target practice + more target practice to the point where friends got sick and tired of having a kick with him).

I don't feel sorry for them, they recently won a premiership and have had exciting games. I feel sorry for us as we've been trying to build - thankfully it's coming.

I hope the Dees go hard for Mitchell. Offer pick 3 for Mitchell and pick 18. They will reduce their salary cap by ~300 - 400K a year as he is replaced with a gun draftee to be put on minimum [AFL] wage. They'll be licking their lips having Heeney and a Petracca/ Brayshaw/ McCartin (10 year prospects). We'll have Mitchell and could pick up the likes of Cockatoo (if North don't grab him first).

Much of a muchness mate. I came on expecting to see a new thread tbh. If they still desperately want one of our first picks the exchage for theirs with Griffen would get it done. Or alternatively I like the trade suggested by Nascent, prefer it actually.

The offical trade also includes 79 to 83, which I'm sure will probably be used to upgrade Jetta so no real change. "The Demons have given the Blues pick No.61 for Garlett. Melbourne has also received selection No.83 and handed Carlton choice No.79." Well done Dees, good trade at a good price!

Griffen wants out of the dogs, give them pick 2 or 3 in exchange for Griffen and pick 5. Then whoever we draft with the alternate pick 2 or 3 (as suggested Brayshaw) + pick 5 will surely develop better with the likes of Griffen at the club along with Jones and our other mature players.

As an avid fisherman I have been enjoying the fishing puns. Although I must have missed the post that originally tied them to Danger, so please explain. I hope to see others whiting some more soon. The lack of MFC activity during trade week is giving me a flathead.

Typical EssenSCUM! First they breached the salary cap, then they bring on the ASADA saga through injecting PE drugs, and if that wasn't enough they now conspire ways to tamper with the draft and concessions.

I completely agree with you Bossdog and I didn't take your first line as having a go at me, thank you for putting it in a nice context. I understand clubs follow the players from a very young age, I understand scouts travel to the games and watch them in person and then further review the tapes from home. I have a friend who is a scout (not at the MFC). I was just going against the grain with regards to the copious amounts of over-exaggeration for how good Brayshaw actually is. I don't doubt his attack on the ball, attack on an opposing player with the ball or work ethic. I just can't rate him as that "future star" because he is predicted within the top 3. The mids I did consider exciting over the last few years prior to the draft were Swallow, O'Meara, and T. Mitchell - All being hard at it (like Brayshaw) yet had that incredible athleticism and ability to get themselves out of tight spaces with precision to go with it (some may consider it a touch of class). By all means if we select him, I hope I am eating my words and that I'm wrong. With regards to the draft I get more excitement trying to predict those that will slide that are yet are more likely to develop into quality AFL players (little/ less hype). My favorite example is looking back at the 2008 draft and seeing the likes of Shuey, Ballantyne, Zaharakis, Beams, and Hannebery all being selected at #18, #21, #23, #29, and #30 respectively (just a shame we didn't get any). Note I didn't pick this at the time, I didn't try back then but there were a large number of Demonlanders screaming for Hannebery after his U18 GF game.

Brayshaw is no Mitchell, he's a long way off they can't even be compared its that far, I certainly didn't see him on the bottom of packs like Mitchell constantly hand-balling it out. Each and every year I see the same few posters claiming that draftee X (predicted draft range 1 - 3) "will be a star!". I read the same for Coniglio, O'Rourke, Aish, Kelly and Toumpas (1 of these could probably eventuate to stardom but certainly not all). People dramatically overate the draft as they get immersed in the hype of the "unknown:", it's nothing but a lottery with a decreasing probability of selecting a "future star" as you go through the order. Brayshaw is nothing more than an 18 year old prospect with "potential" of becoming a high quality AFL player. From his highlights above very little got me excited, at one point I liked his attack on the ball and a tackle, but was about it. I constantly watched him receive the ball and blatantly bang it on the boot. His pace, agility and ability to evade players looked very average as well. I'm just not going to get carried away in the hype on this one.

Sure thing, what player/s do you suggest? Keep in mind we must take a minimum of three draftees in the ND.

For me now, I get more joy out of looking for those names that will slide in the draft. I genuinely believe Cockatoo will become a quality player of the AFL. He already has the perfect traits with good skills by both hand and foot, reading the ruck, and willing to put his head over the ball. As it states above he can shrug tackles and side step opponents while at pace - think how much harder he'll be to tackle when his 188 cm frame stacks on a little more mass, I doubt he'll slow down anytime soon and his body is practically AFL ready. As for his drawbacks regarding outside work rate for uncontested possessions and an increase in tackling pressure, these will be some of the easier things to teach a draftee that is "very coachable" enthusiastic and willing to learn. That is far easier than trying to teach another draftee not to shrug at contest or put their head over the ball. My only concern is that North seem very keen and I won't be surprised if they try pull the trigger early with their later first round (first overall) pick.

Here's more of a comprehensive analysis from Knightmare of Bigfooty. 29. Nakia Cockatoo (NT – Mid)Height: 188cm, Weight: 84kg, DOB: 23/10/1996 Recruited from: NT Thunder Draft range: 15-45 Best position/role: Midfield – outside Strengths: Linebreaking ability – Cockatoo after Pickett is that next most outstanding linebreaker in this draft class. Like Pickett, Cockatoo similarly whenever the opportunity is there will use his acceleration to break the lines at top speed and provide meaningful, explosive run and carry. He can on his runs cover substantial ground and will run and carry it 50m or 60m if you let him. He can step through traffic superbly and also get around opposition players easily. Cockatoo v the U17s at one point got carried away with his run and carry and forget to bounce whereby he ran what seemed to be 50m or 55m without bouncing it but if he remembers to bounce the ball earlier every time then his linebreaking ability will be a significant weapon and point of difference at the next level. For pace Cockatoo tested in the top six for the 20m sprint and the top overall for repeat speed but more importantly he not only has that speed, he applies it in game as well as anyone bar Pickett in this draft. Evasiveness –Cockatoo in addition to his acceleration also is excellent at evading tackles and has numerous tricks to help him deal with tacklers to stop them from getting their hands on him. He can spin out of trouble to avoid a tackler. He can shrug tackles and at times draw free kicks by doing this. He can at times sidestep players to go by them. Cockatoo can also run around guys. This evasiveness only makes him even more of a linebreaking threat. Gamechanger – Cockatoo with his linebreaking ability can inject significant energy into games and can change the complexion of games and with his linebreaking ability. An example of Cockatoo’s gamechanging ability is from one centre bounce Cockatoo managed to read the ruck tap and take it cleanly and he individually took it from that centre bounce, ran it at full acceleration to 40m directly in front to then finished for the easy goal, and it will be explosive, gamechanging players like this that will become routine for Cockatoo. Versatility – Cockatoo has the versatility to play through the midfield in outside or inside roles; he can play off a back flank as a linebreaker or even push into the forward half. Work at ground level – Cockatoo is very clean at ground level and is excellent at winning the ground ball with his pickups clean, rarely fumbling. Skillset – Cockatoo by hand and foot is a good ball user and is also a natural finisher when within range of goal. Strong overhead – Cockatoo from a limited viewing sample seems a strong but not mark overhead and has shown that he can read the flight of the ball well and get to the drop of the ball. Coachable – From reports Cockatoo is highly coachable and plays his football with a real enthusiasm. Weaknesses:Decision making ability – Cockatoo at times with ball in hand can try to do too much and go long at ill-advised times when sometimes lowing the eyes and finding the easier, shorter option is better, overlooking the higher percentage option in favour of going with what he thinks may generate a more meaningful drive forward. He also at times looks to have long shots at goal that are beyond his limitations. Contested ball winning ability – Cockatoo while he can win some of his own ball still is not a high volume contested ball winner or such a high level contested ball winner that he would be a suitable player to play on the ball at AFL level for more than brief minutes. Tackling ability – Cockatoo while he is among the quickest in this draft I have no seen lay many tackles or give a great deal of tackling effort at this point in time, albeit from a small sample size and it is something I would be looking for him to develop into a feature of his game. Ability to find the easy outside ball – At this stage Cockatoo is more someone who in the most part will get his ball through receiving by hand and struggles at this point to all that much find easy, uncontested ball on the outside. Cockatoo is someone so damaging with ball in hand that you really want to see him have the ball in his hands more than he does at the present time. Small sample size of games/limited exposed games – Cockatoo has missed most of the season with injury and there is a limited formline to go off with that game v the AIS underagers his only game in the past six months. Best position? – At this stage Cockatoo lacks an easily identifiable best position and will over the coming years need to find out where he is best suited. I assume giving his linebreaking ability most likely on a wing or otherwise a back flank. What I expect will improve:I expect Cockatoo to continue doing what he already does but also I expect he will add a dominant tackling energy game to his arsenal. I also expect he cleans up his decision making ability with time in the system. Who he can become?I see Cockatoo as something like Gary Rohan. Hopefully less injury prone but like Rohan, Cockatoo is a similar height but also possesses that same gamechanging acceleration with ball in hand and similar ability to influence games without finding a large volume of ball. When will he be ready to play?Cockatoo will take time to develop. It is not out of the question that he receives games from season one depending on whether his team needs an injection of pace but I see him as more likely to establish himself around season two or three. How to best utilise him?It is not completely clear where Nakia will be best utilised but I anticipate he will look best suited as an outside linebreaker on a wing. Interpretation of his numbers:Sample size of the stats I have access to are too small to make any conclusions

I'm going against the grain and am a little underwhelmed by Brayshaw. Watching his possessions across the carnival he has a tendency to just grab the ball, take a step or two and just bang it on the boot. If we're to take a pick 2 to the draft I hope the Saints go McCartin at 1 and we could take Petracca at 2 ahead of Brayshaw.

Well that was out of left field. On the basis he can clean up his attitude, work ethic and return to his previous golden form. I will welcome him with open arms.

GC SUNS ‏@GoldCoastSUNS 1m1 minute ago BREAKING: The Gold Coast SUNS have signed Sydney Swans defender Nick Malceski: http://bit.ly/1BIjUiX

Many of us here despise the journos, there are the usual few that people despise more than others. However, I continually notice one journo popping up showing support of our club - usually going against the grain, and that is Jon "Ralphy" Ralph of the HUN. I have listened to him on SEN radio and notice a few of his odd tweets, and considering we are always quick to attack their articles I figured I should pay some form of respect to a journalist that continually supports us. So thank you (if you are one of the few that read Demonland). With regards to other journos I also have a great deal of respect for Emma Quayle of The Age. Anyway that's my two cents, Cheers.

Good luck to him. I hope we can get a trade of anyform eventhough it's highly unlikely. If not, I hope he can at least get picked up as a rookie. Seemed like a good bloke.