Lucifers Hero

It is not only in the draft that the new franchises have hurt us.

GCS have hosted home games at MS for nearly all the big Vic clubs: Richmond, Hawthorn, Geelong, Collingwood, Carlton. This means they are getting packed houses and great game day revenue from the gate etc. This is also great for their sponsors and of course good for membership. Of the big Vic clubs we hosted only Collingwood (and even that is considered a gratuity by some) and Geelong.

The result is revenue that we may have and exposure that our sponsors may have is going to GSC (and probably GWS). Not to mention the impact on membership.

We all know that off-field fixturing etc will only improve when on-field does but the AFL has done us no favours by taking home games against the big Vic teams away and givent them to the new teams. I hope they look at this when deciding a pp.

By the games that could have been won I think he means those where we were leading in the final qtr then fell away. Can't see any other sensible meaning. So we won 4 but could have won 6/7 others in 2014. Thats my take on it.

Gil said pp will be on Oct Commission mtg agenda (no mtg in Sept).

He said Evans will look at: a subjective view of the list; # games won; # games that could have been won. (No mention was made of past performance)

My immediate reaction was that there will be no PP. That could be Dee supporter pessimism but he didn't offer the hope that he did this time last year..

Sweet dee hasn't posted for a while - I reckon she's on her way to my place!!

Ah...a long way for her to go from Philadelphia, unless you also live in the USA

Adapt, survive, then prosper.

Hard road atm, we need to find the Rockliff's, Sloane's and Parker's of the draft.

If we don't have a very good list and a really good player development program with sustainable, on-field success (at or near top 8) at both AFL and Casey by the time Paul Roos 3 years is up I walk away from the Dees and AFL.

If we haven't reached this by end of 2016 we will just be fodder for other clubs to poach any good players we get and the subject of eternal ridicule. Our beloved Dees deserve better than to rot at the bottom of the ladder.

Better to put a dagger thru our hearts once and for all and shut us down.

It was reported on 3AW last night that Roos had a plan for a complete rebuild of the MFC list post season. It was reported that Roos is looking for 5 picks in the top 20 in this years draft and is also looking to bring in 5 mature players.

We are likely to get:

• pick 2,
• pick 3 (Frawley),
• a good possibly (that's the clubs opinion after initial discussions with AFL) a PP at either 1, 4 or 20.
• We will also have 2nd Round pick at ~20.

This means we will need to trade for at least 1 probably 2 or 3 picks in the top 20 considering at least one of these picks will be traded for a mature age player. Apparently the MFC is offering as trade bate the following players:

• Watts
• Grimes
• Trengrove
• Toumpas

Apparently Roos is looking to trade out at least 2 of these 4 depending on what is offered.

The mature age players will come from a combination of Free Agency, Trades and delisting's (aka Cross).

What are supporters views on this? Personally I have full faith in Roos, you have to give away talent to get talent, clearly he is trying to break the poor culture by bringing in new core players.

*** Please note this is not from my contacts inside the club, I have no idea if true. This comes from Gerard Healy and others on 3AW last night. However, they were claiming it as a scoop.

Recognise something needs to be done and Roos is the man to do it.

But I find the prospect of giving up those 4 players as seriously depressing. Prior pick 1, pick 2, pick 4 and pick 12 and two of which are current and recent co-captains. Very sad day that it has come to this (if scoop is true). Not the players fault!

They obviously had the submission prepared and were waiting for the right moment to deliver it.

Agreed, but what makes this the right moment? Genuine question.

Bit more about it from Caro:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/timing-of-priority-pick-request-as-illjudged-as-the-decision-to-seek-one-20140820-106f9c.html

The really worrying thing about this article is this: "But Peter Jackson’s future as CEO remains unclear... Club president Glen Bartlett told The Age: ‘‘We’re in talks at the moment but we won’t be making any further comment on contracts.’’

When Roos signed for the extra year PJ said he was just waitiing for Bartlett to get back from OS to sign up. It seemed a mere formality. Hope nothing has gone wrong on this front. I'm nervous.

I'm still perplexed by the timing. What if we were to win the last two games? If we get thrashed we leave ourselves open to 'putting the cue-in-the-rack' accusation to strengthen the pp case. There must be a good reason for not waiting till at least the end of the H & A games.

Given that PJ is a smart cookie and wouldn't make such a bllunder, I assume they have built the case regardless of the outcome this year be it 4,5, 6 wins. I can see the case being built around the:

-obvious on-field under-performance over a number of years,

-we have already paid the price for not-tanking so don't punish us again and again

-total lack of depth at Casey as they have also been underwhelming and not good for player morale/development

-risk to the game and possible sponsorship if we have don't have sustainable improvement

Perhaps one of the most persuasive things might be if we can demonstrate that we really have a player development program to ensure that current and future young players are set up to succeed. Player development is really the key to our future success. We have and will get really good, possible great young players, so their development is THE major thing we need to get right to have a sustainable future.

If we can demonstrate we have such a program it might just get us the PP. Without it the perception and the reality will be that coming to MFC is a career killer and everyone will keep blaming the recruiting.

Time to fix the player development side of things, folks!!

It is clear that Evans has said we won't get a PP and that he believes exceptional circumstances relate to death.

Given that decree, we should now forget about the PP, it won't happen, unless Gill overrules him, which is unlikely.

The only hope we have is Gil.

About this time last year he said (in a Ch 7 interview) there was a good case for the Dees to get a pp. Then all the other clubs ganged up and he couldn't get it through.

Also, he is a very passionate St Kilda supporter so the only way they can get one in the next few years is if Gil goes to bat for us now (unless AFL hypocracy kicks in when the Saints put their hand up.)

Time for Gil to show his mettle and make a strong decision for what is right and not what can be lobbied, otherwise it will always be 'survival of the fittest'!!

BTW, where on earth did Evans dig up this new pp interpretation of 'only in tragic circumstances' BS!!!

From Patrick Smith:

Melbourne are being rebuilt by AFL goodwill and money. Roos and Jackson will be dragged back inevitably by the previous rancid culture of the club. It is beholden on the AFL and its league clubs that the Demons are not shackled to their past altogether but given a key to a better future. Melbourne need and warrant a priority pick.

Similar comments from CW on FC Monday night.

FCS don't get carried away with running 2nd or 3rd in the Bluey. Matt Jones, Terlich & Garland have been doing that recently.

IMHO Tyson is going to be solid B Grader. Doubts over disposal, pace and very one sided. GWS knew they could let him go as they have so many similar or better.

At this stage I would love to take back those TWO picks at 2 & 20 and select Josh Kelly & Lewis Taylor with them.

You need some elite talent and not just a team of B & C Graders.

but you also have to give back Salem who was rated the best kick in that draft and we sure do need someone who can kick

Sunday probably scared him off!

Absolute amateur hour from Peter Jackson and the club, you really have to wonder who provides the media and strategic advice at the club, it really is a shambles and as whole the club is like a gaffe-prone politician. Absolutely ridiculous that a club with a perceived tanking history would, after serving up one of the worst and most inexplicable performances in its history (a loss which has strengthened its end-of-year draft and trading possibilities immensely) ask for a priority pick 24 hours later and before the end of the season. Pure comedy, embarrassing and Jackson's performance here is awful in my opinion.

Yes, a very bad look, bad message to give the players for next few games and the timing makes it a lot harder to win the public hearts and minds (if that is at all possible). ATMo it looks like a knee-jerk reaction to the GWS loss altho' its been in the pipeline for a while.

Going before the end of the H & A games just gives other clubs and the media more anti-Dees ammunition. Would prefer to wait till after GF as it doesn't distract from the game/finals and then gives more opportunity to present it as a strategic plan rather than a knee-jerk which is what the perception will be.

Mixed feelings about a PP.

But why did we ask now and not at the end of the season or at least wait for the end of H & A games?

Have we surrendered the last 2 games already?

I see that Little wants to make it all go away with the help of the Sports Minister and that the govt is thinking of an enquiry into ASADA and the previous govts's involvement with it. Typical of Abbott and co to launch enquiries to blacken the previous govt as if they were still fighting the election. But that may well be Essendung's best hope of getting off.

They probably have Peter Costello, the recent EFC # 1 ticket holder and Treasuer in the last Lib gov't, lobying Tony and his mates as we speak.

Interestingly, the new CEO of ASADA (forgotten his name) has been very very quiet, keeping his powder dry. Bet he will fight Abbott and Co tooth and nail to ensure it doesn't just 'go away'. EFC and AFL shouldn't underestimate him.

Social Litigator Day 2.

The article says: “There seems no debate that Essendon Football Club made these representations. However, for the point to be made good against both Applicants ASADA must show that James Hird affirmed this position as well.

The point of Hird’s cross-examination was therefore to obtain concessions from him that he too endorsed the concept that ASADA and the AFL had been invited by the Club to investigate Essendon’s supplement program. He did not do this.”

The article goes on to give 3 reasons why.

Hird seems to have taken the position that he disagreed privately with Evans, The AFL, ASADA, EFC Management and Paul Little (at the B&F) and was gagged.

Privately could mean a passing ‘…not to happy about that mate’ comment. Where are the letters, emails, sms or meeting notes to give evidence to these private concerns. Surely if he was so unhappy with the investigation there would be some documents to someone!

A legal Question? Could the judge find for Hird but against EFC? Or is one in all in? If the latter it seems mindboggling that Hird’s evidence hasn’t been tested in court.

Hird saying he signed deed of settlement after being charged by AFL on Aug 13 "under great duress, threats and inducements". This after claiming he didn't like some of the things the club said at the feb 2013 presser, but went along with them because he is a good club man and was told to tell the truth in ASADA interviews but not what Andrew Demetriou had said to David Evans on the 4th of February (and i assumed complied).

Pathetic. What about standing up for what you think is right Hird and not caving in on your principals. Inducements? I assume he means a year off on full pay and a trip to France. Add this to his 'I take full responsibility' charade and he keeps looking worse and worse. Amazing for someone so worried about reputation.

Wouldn't mind 1) knowing what the threats and inducements were that caused the duress and 2) why he didn't have the ticker (ie integrity) to just say get lost. Is he trying to say he was bribed and he just couldn't resist. Can he say this in a court of law and still be a credible withness.

It sounds like he is saying he is weak (didn't resist the threats) and a mercinary (couldn't resist the inducements). I can't believe he is for real and not realise what he is saying about his own character. Sheesh!

Great game down at Geelong tonight and for a change it was good to watch the 7 coverage. It seems they have had a moved to a more football oriented coverage, maybe they have finally been listening to the fans.

When watching on TV you miss a lot of what is going on around the ground and why a player will take a particular option. This to me is a major reason for having special comments guys, to fill in the blanks. Whilst I think Darcy is a little too much Captain Obvious it was good to hear more detailed comments from Ling and also hear Richo talk without stupid interruptions & p..takes from Taylor.

They're not going to be my favourite commentary team but at least now it is watchable, I hope they stay with this new approach and we get no more of the wowweee.

Geelong were lucky to win in the end and still rely a lot on their experienced champions to get them through. Rivers has been good and has shown me what he could have been with us if he had a bit more support. A lot of his old brain fades don't seem to be happening at Geelong. He's taking good options and hitting up targets.

...and the umpires! 31 frees to Freemantle's 14! 26 to Geelong in the first half!! As bad an umpiring effort as our game vs Collingwood where we had 5 and they had 19 (I think).

Your exactly right, it's likely that it won't be necessary to have pick 1 in order to get Petracca. All GWS need is a pick ahead of us as Stkilda should get Mccartin. Their probs tanking it now so that they can get pick 2 and Petracca so that they don't have to trade with us.

GWS don't need to tank as there is talk that if GWS finish above us, St Kilda will trade pick 1 to GWS (to get Petracca), for GWS first pick (3/4, to use for one of the tall KPP - Mc Cartin) plus another highish pick/player. (GWS have 2 more picks around 20/21 to play with).

Such a deal not within the rules but then when it comes to GWS there are no rules.

An [censored] who has a severe lack of understanding in making choices he may be but if you could get him cheaply through the preseason draft with a contract loaded with several conditions, I would actually not mind having a look at Robinson.

Hard as nails and you never die wondering, Robinson has limited ability but he is everything in his endeavours and way in which he hits the ball that has seen the likes of Sylvia, Morton, Gysberts and others never get near their best

I would not rule out chasing him

Firrstly, he fails the NDH rules.

Whats more how could any of us barrack for a player who snidingly tagged us as 'bruise free'. It was the snideness that was as annoying as the comment.

For several years (2007 to 2009) we were involved in a 'race to the bottom'. In 2009 we got 'lucky' and got the pp for Scully/Trengove. 3 years of 'loosing mentality'. New players came into a toxic environment with little development to build confidence/skills/belief.

2010 relatively uneventful but the stoush between the late Dean Bailey and the orchestrators of the 'race to the bottom' was just warming up with players caught in the middle. New players came into a toxic environment with little development to build confidence/skills/belief.

Fast Forwrad to June 2011 and the infamous 186. Players lose their beloved coach and feel incredibly guilty (for going directly to the President) and incredibly responsibile (for the 186). New players came into a toxic environment with little development to build confidence/skills/belief

Then in 2012 arrives MN. Losses started to pile up. The thrashings were happening on and off the field. New players came into a toxic environment with little development to build confidence/skills/belief. .

So while not many of the 2007-2009 players are still at the club the perpretators of the 'race to the bottom' strategy were there, right up to mid 2013. MN was still there 1 year ago.

The resultant cumulative and lingering affect of 7 years of 'losing' be it orchestrated or incompetence has left players with deep, deep scars without confidence/skills belief. It is this to which Roos was referring: The 'tanking' years were just the foundation stone for the 'we can't win' mentality.

Surely DL's (and Garry L) can see the affect 7 continuous years of rubbish has on players. It will take a while to fix it but we have turned the corner...at least the thrahings have stopped.

"Melbournised" makes it seem half-okay.

He's being "Melbourned". I prefer that word.

Bernie Vince is now officially "Melbourned". Did he butcher the ball like that at Adelaide? One of our worst offenders in the second-half of the year.

Bernie will play better once his 'butchered' hair cut grows out

Except Judd sold out to the highest bidder and he went through this whole shopping expedition at various clubs. I don't blame him but it wasn't a pretty process to watch.

And the Frawley process is pretty? At least Judd looked after WC at the same time which is all I would like from Frawley.

Frawley will do the right thing by Frawley.

Maybe, but I hope he isn't that shallow. Different circumstances but Judd tried hard to get WC a fair deal. Judd left with integrity in tack.

Depends how much Frawley values his integrity and standing. Shallow man with hollow words vs Man of intergrity who bleeds red and blue but leaves to get success. I can live with the latter.