Lucifers Hero

An interesting update on the appeal: -David Grace, QC...is required to recuse himself from the formal proceedings under Court of Arbitration for Sport rules. -WADA has eight more days to submit its brief to the players’ lawyers, who will then have 20 days to respond. -It emerged on Wednesday that any player wanting to end the saga and do a deal with ASADA had missed their opportunity. -The saga is now tipped to drag on into 2016, overshadowing a fourth AFL season. -Several other Australian CAS arbitrators have had involvement in the Essendon saga, likely ruling them out them from sitting in judgment on the matter. Malcolm Holmes, QC, Neil Young, QC, Hayden Opie,Brian Collis, QC. -...CAS official Katy Hogg told the Herald Sun CAS can subpoena witnesses but warned of more local court action. “If they refuse to collaborate, the CAS, like any arbitral tribunal in the world, would be obliged to seek the assistance of the competent state courts to have them testify,” Hogg said. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/david-grace-qc-unable-to-represent-essendon-players-against-world-anti-doping-agency/story-fni5f6kv-1227353891389 Better order heaps of that popcorn BB, it is going to be a long wait.

A bizarre claim by HIrd. He sure looked rattled and deflated on 360...there was a little defiance but that air of invincibility was gone...knows his goose is cooked, perhaps.

Thanks Chris. Its good to get a different, considered perspective and your posts provide that. Look forward to more posts from you. Cheers.

Hey Chris. Your comments seem both informed and considered (unlike some of us who are rather zealous on this subject - me included). Without giving anything away are you close to/have experience with anti-doping cases, ASADA etc Would you like to hazard a guess on the appeal outcome...reading between the lines of your posts, it would appear WADA will win the appeal.

Probably explains why Eddie declared the club and its processes squeaky clean within a few days of the announcement and isolated the two young kids from the club. Still believe Eddie is scared that ASADA could invoke the '2 in a team found guilty and the team could be sanctioned rule'...not saying it would be a ban or that a sanction would be imposed. But the possibility has caused Eddie and co to go into self preservation mode. If it wasn't for the WADA appeal a lot more questions would be asked of Eddie.

His moniker is 'party boy' after all...

Ian Robson on SEN said several times that Deloitte were given everything EFC had which covered about 3,500 'documents'. Hard to imagine James remembering just this one out of that bundle! Robson would not be drawn on any particular document. Quite different to the comment Chip LG has attributed him. Chip has now mentioned Wallis. Chip is just another Hird mouthpiece doing his bidding. If they are not careful one of these people they are dragging into this might just spill the beans!! Maybe that would good...keep going Hird, Chip and Robbo!!

They may never have been in paper or electronic format at EFC offices (hence why Deloitte didn't find them). They were probably stored on 'personal computers, usb storage devices, or in the 'cloud' to be accessed via linked devices (tablets, pads, phones). So no paper or electronic trail at EFC would exist and coaches etc could honestly say 'no records were destroyed' I'm with you SWYL - they are somewhere and there are a number of people who know exactly where they are and how to access them.

At first I chuckled but then remembered he started his journalistic life as a race caller (and is still a leading race caller for ABC radio during the Spring carnival) so you are probably right!

If James Hird thought ASADA had 'destroyed' evidence why did he not just produce his own/EFC copy? Is he so used to lying that he can't even see the transparency of this lie? Beggars belief!! Also, why has he waited till now to make this amazing 'disclosure'. PS: does anyone know if the 360 show is available anywhere on line if you don't have foxtel

That's because he has woken up to his role as an independent journalist. This must have been hard given he is employed by the News Ltd dominated EFC/HIrd apologists and at times it did look as if he had joined them.

Very interesting article. In addition to subpoenas she talks about the selection of judges: "Depending on ‘which side you’re on’, you may elect for – say – someone affiliated with the Australian Institute of Sport or International Athletic Federation or Athletics Australia (well accustomed to the concept of athlete responsibility for substances they ingest or otherwise take), or you may prefer someone affiliated with the International Cricket Council or Australian Rugby League Judiciary Panel (well accustomed to the challenges faced by young men in a team sport environment)" David Grace is head of Athletics Australia (AA) and the leading QC for the players at the AFL Tribunal. He is also mates with John Wylie (Australian Sports Commission chair - ASC) and Mike Fitzpatrick (AFL Commission chair). Don't underestimate how far their network extends in legal and sporting circles in Australia. As a general comment about the world of politics, business and law (and the politics of those) I quote from my post #76 yesterday morning. I like your confidence bb. Unfortunately, I have seen far too much pulling of strings and calling in of favours to believe what SHOUD happen DOES happen. The AFL Tribunal only confirmed my belief. Yes, I know that CAS is a different and an outside jurisdiction... The scope for subtle influence/favourable interpretation of subjective rules is still there. If 2 of the 3 on the CAS panel are not from Australia and are not from Athletics, my concern will continue. Like in any court its members will be selected with a clear view of their decision making and interpretations of law history. This is a case where justice must not only be done but also be seen to be done. Hopefully a judge that has had anything to do with International Athletics, AA or the ASC members will not be selected. Thankfully, the CAS rules for selection of judges allows for 'challenges'.

Did Robbo look blank thinking this was a riddle and would have to do mental gymnastics to decipher it

I like your confidence bb. Unfortunately, I have seen far too much pulling of strings and calling in of favours to believe what SHOUD happen DOES happen. The AFL Tribunal only confirmed my belief. Yes, I know that CAS is a different and an outside jurisdiction. But take another look at my post and the names and roles of each. The scope for subtle influence/favourable interpretation of subjective rules is still there. If 2 of the 3 on the CAS panel are not from Australia and are not from Athletics, my concern will continue.

The process: The process is that the Court of Arbitration for Sport, of which Australian Olympic Committee head John Coates is the president, will appoint a chair for the Essendon case. WADA and the defendants then have the right to select their preferred arbitration to form a three-person panel that will sit in judgment of the case. I hope the CAS members for the case are carefully selected. I have in other posts mentioned the friendships between David Grace (lawyer for Ess players and Head of Athletics Australia, CAS panelist), John Wylie (Australian Sports Commission chair) and Mike Fitzpatrick (AFL Commission chair). I truly hope that John Coates and WADA respectively choose someone outside Australia who will be seen to be truly independant because the players won't.

On FC last night Buckley was asked whether Keefe and Thomas had been cut loose by the Club. He weasel worded his way around it He is my theory: -Within 48 hours of their positive test to a banned PED' CFC announced it had done an internal process review and found all to be ok. -The 2 players were not allowed to train or attend at club premises. -The club is 'supporting' the players but don't seem to be doing anything to help them. That's AFLPA's job. -Under the anti-doping code if 2 players are found guilty of taking a banned substance the whole team can be outed. -ASADA would have every legal right to have the ban extended to the whole of Collingwood. This, I suggest, is why Keefe and Thomas have been cut loose by CFC. Eddie et al are [censored] scarred of ASADA throwing the book at them. ASADA have hard evidence on the 2 players and may just be peeved enough that if they can't get EFC/AFL they may go extra hard on CFC/AFL. ASADA will be no mood to 'talk turkey' with the AFL. We have all been distracted by ASADA/WADA appeal etc. If it wasn't for Essendon, the Collingwood case would be on the front page and Eddie would be getting grilled. Eddie must be ecstatic this morning with the WADA appeal. Even in our wildest dreams I can't imagine ASADA/WADA getting both clubs but I'm pretty confident they will nail one of them!!

Not quite. But WADA may be angry enough to call in the 'if 2 are guilty the whole team is out' rule. How this applies 3 years down the track when some of 'that team' are now at different clubs and half of 'that team' are new, who knows. It is a lot easier to prove 2 rather than 34. This may have been a flaw in ASADA's approach altho not enough info in the public domain to know whether ASADA prosecuted their case on 2 players or all 34.

EFC are now paying the price for 'poking the bear' with all their obstructions, tampering, denials and delaying tactics. WADA were never going to let it go. Even if players are not found guilty by CAS, EFC et al will squirm for at least the rest of this season. This time they will really squirm as they will not have the soothing words and wink, wink of the AFL to quell their fears. WADA said they will say nothing else until CAS make their decision. They mean it. No 'consulting' or backroom buddy buddy AFL networking/leaks this time. The players will feel very isolated and lonely. However, I still have an uneasy feeling about the very close connections between the players legal rep DG and CAS. Whoever chooses the good folk to sit on this CAS case choose very, very carefully.

Carlton just can't take a trick. Their 'captain carlton' hovercraft had to be dragged from the Yarra!! http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/carltons-hovercraft-flips-into-the-yarra-river-is-forced-to-be-pulled-out/story-e6frf3e3-1227350806320 Its quite funny really. Quite symbolic of their plight. Can't say I feel any sympathy for them!!!

Easy there deefrag. You will notice Ash has been a member on DL since 2005. While Ash doesn't bleed red and blue like the rest of us on DL he sure has a big soft spot for red and blue in his heart. For me I like to hear his opinion as he is genuine.

Vince not charged of anything. Dunn fined for knee to Goodes So both are available vs Hawks. Phew!!

Vince not charged!! ...as predicted

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-05-11/players-to-say-thanks-to-junior-members That article isn't about mothers but it seemed the best available thread to put this. Part of it says: "JUNIOR supporters and members are the future of the Melbourne Football Club. And on Tuesday, May 12 from 5.30-7pm, some of the Melbourne players will be in at the club calling junior members to say ‘thanks’. If you have a child who’d love to receive a phone call from a player, simply click here and complete their details and stand by the phone." There will be lots of very happy kids tomorrow night!!

Sorry if I sounded critical and I should have acknowledged the positive analysis and conclusions.

Rohan Connolly at the Age does a very good impersonation as a Hird supporter...