Macca

@DeeZone I also reckon that once Melk, Kozzie and Tholstrup become available along with Petracca having stints in the forwardline, one of the talls will be squeezed out anyway So I'm going early so as the team can get used to playing with just the 2 key forward targets (now) Langford on the flank instead of Turner is what it boils down to. Is that such a risk? And can JVR play as a CHF type like he did against Carlton 2 or 3 years ago (a High CHF!!) He looked good in that role and seemed to relish the freedom of getting up around the centre-wing

My observations upon seeing his under 18 highlights was a Craig McRae type So Lindsay is really neat footballer who doesn't waste a possession Also had Langford as a Luke Hodge type so fingers crossed that he ends up being that good As it turned out, Lindsay is the plug-in-and-play type where as Langford might take a bit of time (I had it the other way around!)

I didn't mind Fritsch's game ... more so after half time. He got involved and had a go With the KPF's, unless we had 3 very good ones, I'm happy to go with 2 and another runner/mid-forward type And I'd like to have a look at Langford for a full game and we need to find out if Laurie is going to make it. Billings deserves a chance too I've only got Laurie as the sub but sometimes the sub plays close to a half of footy I thought we were a runner short against GWS and you've previously seen my thoughts on the output of the 3 KPF's on Sunday (not going there again) So I'll go with 2 talls where as most will be happier with 3. And the MC will almost certainly go with 3 talls But I have to have a consistent argument so 2 Keys is my preference ... and it's one player out of the 23 playing a different role ... let's not sweat it Running forwards or potential running forwards ... Kozzie, Chandler, Henderson, Sharp?, Petracca, Tholstrup Then there's Melk & Fritsch who can get on their bikes when they hit good form We're not too badly off for mediums & smalls up forward. Just need to get them all fit and firing

Yeah, but I'd prefer another runner. And it's certainly nothing personal against the lad (Turner) I could give some other reasons but you've seen those on the post match thread! However, I reckon Turner will almost certainly get a gig from the MCbut Jeffo & JVR will do me Interesting observation by @KozzyCanwhere he noted that the Hawks only have one genuine key forward and they have kicked 31 goals in the first 2 games So this ol' boy is gettin' with the program, DZone And @DeeSpencer also has some interesting observations on the modern game and where it's all heading i.e. the future might see teams only going with 1 or 2 KPF's and definitely just the one ruckman It's a midfielders game and that means all the players have to adopt a total football mantra ... and we are already in amongst that style of footy You don't want to get left behind either

Fair enough Out: AJ, Howes In: Billings, Laurie (sub) B: Bowey T-Mac Lever HB: Salem Petty Rivers C: Langdon Oliver Windsor HF: Fritsch JVR Langford F: Chandler Jefferson Henderson R: Gawn Petracca Viney Int: Sparrow Lindsay Billings Sharp Sub: Laurie

The 'Pathetic' word should be removed totally. It's demeaning to the site It's inappropriate and quite frankly, wrong

Good post On the above bit, it's a lot like the pure 2nd ruck In many ways, obsolete The game is a midfielders game with the majority of players being able to defend & attack A form of Total football

Well, we need to change as we are being left behind Working for a boundary line stoppage in our own forward line is now playing into the oppositions hands ... the other clubs know what we are going to do and plan accordingly We have to work too hard for our scores. It's exhausting to watch, imagine being part of it?

Out : AJ Howes In : May* Billings (sub) So that's 2 Talls up forward (only) as 3 unprovens is 1 too many T-Mac can do the spare rucking in the backline which leaves JVR to do a few in the forward line We can always throw T-Mac or Petty forward if we need some forward line marking power (in game) The swingmen *Is May available?

I thought Henderson & Sharp were ok for their first games. Both might have a future In the selectors minds It's perhaps Chandler or Spargo but when Kozzie comes back that might change What stands out (and has done for quite some time) is our lack of front & centre types. We pick blokes for that role but they rarely deliver ... it's a real issue as we aren't getting those snapshot at goal from the hot spot

I don't get the love for Spargo ... at the top level he has been found out time and time again. Doesn't get the ball enough At a lower level down he can play well but that's not always a good indicator I hope he does well, if picked The issue I have with playing the 3 talls (JVR, Jeffo & Turner) is that none of the 3 can be relied on to contributing in a meaningful way So it's one too many until they belt the door down A lot of teams have gone medium/tall and if we have Melk available with Petracca & Fritsch pushing forward, there's your marking power in totality (2 talls, 3 mediums) Added to that (if we're talking 8 or 9 possibles - rotating forward) are Tholstrup, Kozzie, Henderson, Chandler and the like So we can have a workable and dangerous forward line So it's not just picking things apart from my point of view ... I'm offering a solution as well And we shouldn't be too concerned about the 2nd ruck duties. JVR and our spare man down back (T-Mac) can cover for 5 minutes per quarter

Yes, we were running on top of the ground in 2021 And as a consequence, we moved the ball with real slickness. What stands out is how our forwards were often in 1 on 1's back then Example being Fritsch in the GF ... the ball was kicked to him 8 times in a 1 on 1 and he won the ball 7 times (the other time he was pushed in the back in the goal square) Since then most of the other teams have deliberately flooded our forward line whilst our movement forward has slowed right down (and we often go wide)

14 So with Goodwin's new way of talking openly, will he be prepared to admit that we went too tall in the forward line on a damp day? 3 rookies in fact when considering that JVR is far from the finished product 3 talls 3 marks (that's in total) We lost the game at the selection table (15) Hey folks, it could be worse Picket Fence - Jeffo

@DiscoStu17 I might add that too many tall forwards is going the way of the primarily 2nd ruck position It's a midfielders game so it's one thing to be outpointed by class/ability but the actual numbers as well? So the 2 key forwards have to be able to contribute, not just compete

Not sure on Spargo but certainly Melk & Kozzie will add much needed class up forward. And Tholstrup when he is healthy (forward/mid) Kozzie will also need midfield minutes as he can be quite dynamic out of the middle A forward line that is Medium/Tall is what I'd be looking forward to with just the 2 talls ... and maybe Turner if we can work 3 in an efficient way. But it's a big maybe so 2 KPF's would do me if we can have 4 or 5 Mediums & Smalls to complement Turner I see as a utility forward not a 1 or 2 KPF. So maybe So it's JVR and Jeffo (or AJ) but not all 3 (IMV) Along with Petracca up forward (periodically) once we get our expanded midfield up and running (adding Langford & Lindsay to the mix) And lastly, Jack Viney as a defensive forward in his twilight years. See ball get ball and kick goals. Why not? I might still have @Adam The God with me on that call !! So there's a fair bit to look forward to once we get everyone available Right now, we probably don't have one forward amongst our best 15 players ... but that can change rapidly

I agree There wasn't much in it but the Giants player accentuated the contact to make it look worse There was not much contact with the head and the ground either

Highly skilled kicking therefore a priority As an example the Hawks are revisiting how they used to kick the ball in that 3peat era. Less space to work with these days but nonetheless, still effective with those 25m-30m kicks Sharp, bullet like passing at a rapid rate to break down opposition defensive structures is what I'd like to see So where do we sit in that area and can we adapt and adopt? The recruitment of Windsor, Tolstrup, Lindsay & Langford the pointer?

They don't need to take marks ... just punch it out of bounds will do Or punch it to ground and then gather the ground ball. No need to worry about our front & square crumbers ... we don't have them

So by playing 3 forwards really deep that creates more space around the half forward area? Makes sense especially if the ball is moved rapidly to the half forward area The 3 that are playing and staying deep still have close checking opponents but they are effectively out of the play if they stay put Do you think that our Match Committee need to adopt this method? Or have we adopted the method in part?

Our 3 bigs up forward not only took just 3 marks between them (is that a record low?) but none of them were able to consistently lock the ball in our forward line Lumbering Giants was a play on words (humour) but on reflection more like Statuesque I wasn't impressed as I have reasonable expectations for the key forwards One mark each for the entire game and if the conditions weren't going to suit, why play all 3?

A good observation so how does a team counter that? Vacate that area or play more mobile players deep forward? The deep forwards could push up but then they'd be crowding the half forwards Another counter is to move the ball really quickly through the corridor towards the hot spot. Run the risk of turning it over but the rewards are there

I'm convinced that given that it was damp day, if we'd played Billings or Langford instead of AJ or Jeffo, we win the game One more runner can make such a difference especially against a free running team like the Giants The good news is that we have a soft draw/fixture (which I've reminded myself about) so I can now see why others may not be too perturbed about the loss yesterday We actually played quite well but couldn't quite clinch the win In our next 7 games there's only one real toughie (Cats at Cats Park) whilst the other 6 games are all quite winnable After that it gets a lot tougher but we can set our season up if we can perform to expectations in the next 2 months Getting Kozzie back will make a big difference as then we can rotate him and Petracca forward I'd really like to see Melksham added to our forward mix too These days, a medium/tall forward line is a smarter option and Melk would add add some much needed class up forward. 2 bigs only is my preferred option

People like winners ... and that's the World over Besides which, what do say to a member who pays $350 for a membership and only goes to a few games? It's estimated that on average, only about 25% of supporters use their membership in any given match There's a truckload that consistently stay away But the money is handy for the clubs So membership in relationship to attending has a large disparity And it's been that way for a number of years now Many are happy to plough their money into the club but not attend

lol In all seriousness, losing these games we should win is getting annoying We had their measure yesterday but found a way to lose (again) And my point about forward line pressure stands. We were too tall and slow for their runners On transition, they did it too easily

The transition forward from GWS often came from our dysfunctional forward line A forward line consisting of 3 lumbering giants who barely touched the ball (collectively 10 kicks & 3 marks) On top of that another forward (Fritsch) who is poor defensively So it still comes back to our forward line. GWS also kick to the hot spot (we don't) so therefore those scrambled goals came from 20 metres out dead in front Where as our stoppages in our forward line is consistently close to the boundary line. We don't challenge the hot spot in our own forward line ... often because our forwards lead to the boundary line And credit to GWS for creating so many opportunities in the hot spot (when the ball was in dispute) ... perhaps we should at least try something similar The boundary line has become our enemy (especially in our own forward line)