Macca

And now for something completely different ! Mark Twain visited our shores ( as well as India , New Zealand etc ) around the end of the 19th century and wrote a book about it . This book is out in the public domain . You could bookmark it and read it at your leisure . Cheers , Macca http://www.pdfbooks....THE_EQUATOR.pdf

I noticed that Juddy did quite well again in 2012 'rp' ! How did Brent go ? Rip Van Winkle here . Cheers

Yep , in an ideal world we'd have a gun midfield with Sylvia in the forward line . But , right now , we're a fair way short of that gun midfield . I am confident however , that Mark Neeld will improve our midfield immeasurably . I'm hoping to see a much fiercer attack on the ball , more 1%ers ( blocking , shepherding etc ) , better cohesion and a far more direct style . Collingwood does hug the boundary a lot but out of the middle they are often very direct . A quick kick to CHF is what I see a fair bit from the Pies ( from centre clearances ) In fact , a number of the good sides have this practice . Cheers .

Yep , and I have presented stats that paint a different picture . And I could present lots more . Not so much to prove that my stats are right but to prove that ............. 'There are lies , damned lies and statistics' Mark Twain The bottom line is you ( and others ) see Brent dropping off too much against the better teams . I see a player who plays better against the poorer sides and is his normal self against the better teams Oh , and just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I 'Don't get it' . It simply means I don't agree with you . Cheers

Ok , I did the stats on Chris Judd for 2011 Keep in mind that I'm not comparing Moloney to Judd talent wise . I'm just comparing the stats . Judd's average possessions when Carlton won - 28.33 And his average possessions when Carlton lost - 22.87 Brent's stats were 28.5 when we won and 19.5 when we lost ( 21 if the Geelong game is taken out ) I could mount a "stats" argument that if Moloney increases his 'loss' possessions by 3 per game then .................. One other point - It's rather hard to get 28-30 possessions when your team is getting thrashed . One major reason is that the other mob have got the ball a lot . Cheers

For a start I never called Moloney a great player . He was our best player last year though . If you disagree feel free to name another player who was better . And how is comparing any sportspersons winning stats vs losing stats not a good analogy ? I could provide numerous examples of good/very good players in footy having similar differences to Moloney in their stats with regards to their teams winning or losing . Full forwards are your classic example but this situation is a lot easier to "explain" . Though FF's are still a very good pointer . For Full backs the reverse might apply . Btw , I dIdn't start the Stats angle . Go back in the thread . Top of page 2 . Also , I was never comparing Moloney to Bradman . I was comparing the numbers not the talent . When the key man performs the side benefits . When he is below par , the others are exposed . Cheers Edit - See post below for Chris Judd's W/L stats

Following up on their smash hit 'Pumped up Kicks' this is is 'Foster the People's' latest single .....'Don't Stop' . Nice catchy number . Macca 5.6

Well 'rjay' , the point I was trying to make is that even the great players have off days . I saw all of Robbie's career and he's the best demon I've seen , though Greg Wells hardly ever played a bad game . I remember seeing Peter Rhode towel Robbie up at the MCG once . ( on the wing ) . As no doubt many know , Peter later came to our club and played over 100 games for us . I always felt we got him to our club because of his game that day on Robbie . Here's the game I think ? ........................ http://stats.rleague...1119860531.html Edit - Going to give the "Great" Robbie Flower the benefit of the doubt because he didn't play the following week . Must have been carrying an injury that day against the Blues ! Cheers

Poor year ? Am I reading this right ? Brent or Team or both ? Poor kinda equals crap yeah ? And my expectations are always relatively high with regards to the footy club . I was as frustrated as the next person re last year . The silver lining for me is we can play some quite good footy on occasions , the list has some untapped talent ( Trengove , Watts , Tapscott , Clark , Gysberts , Howe , Jurrah and others ) and we have a whole new FD . Cheers

Neeld should improve our midfielders given his role at Collingwood . Trengove will get better . Maybe Grimes and Sylvia will get some decent time in there . Lets face it , last years set up doesn't work so we need to be pro-active . Now that Grimes is co-skipper going into the midfield could be just his go . And I reckon Sylvia should play in the centre against the good sides . Putting everything else aside he can go hard at the ball when he wants to , he reads the play well , has very good disposal and has a bit of mongrel as well . Sylvia is often wasted on the HFF against the good sides . Cheers

Yep Wyl , we normally agree on lots of things and I agree with you about our overall year last year but Moloney was a worthy winner of the 'Bluey' IMO . I could question other winners of the Bluey ( esp when we've been really bad ) but I prefer to be less critical . I always think that I may meet 'said' person one day . Not sure I'd like it to go like this ................ "Ah , g'day Brent , pleased to meet you , you were crap last year" ! Cheers

Don Bradman In winning Test matches he averaged 130.08 In losing Test matches he averaged 43.27 . Just another "flat track" bully apparently ! Scroll down to point 88 on this link for the info ............................. http://www.heraldsun...o-1111117799367

It depends on how you want to view the stats 'rp' I could argue that Brent gets similar stats to Jones and Treng®ove in our losses and then steps it up a gear in our wins . And I could also argue that his stats are more valuable than Jones' .( win or lose ) And is averaging 19.5 possessions in our losses that bad ? Brent needs to be compared to other players of his ilk in other teams . Not the great players but other solid nuggety goers . I reckon his stats would stack up rather well . Oh , I noticed he is down a massive 1.8 possessions per game in our losses from 2010 to 2011 . That's less about 1 handball per half . ( And given that a lot of our handballs travel 1 metre to a stationary target surrounded by opposition players , no great loss hey ? ) His tackle count in losses went from 4 per game to 6 per game from 2010 to 2011 . Thats 1 extra tackle per half . I'll take the tackle over the 1 metre handpass 'rp' ! Cheers

Hypothetical question . Can't happen but ....... What would we as a club expect to get in return for Brent if he were to go to Richmond this upcoming season ? Why Richmond you ask ? Just to spice things up a bit ! I'd be very interested in the opinions of those who feel he is inconsistent . Cheers , Macca

Pertinant to 2011 1 - Without Moloney our midfield is cactus 2 - Without Moloney we win less games 3 - He is a sometimes matchwinner 4 - He leads the club in clearances / Hardball gets / contested possessions 5 - 19 brownlow votes 6 - B & F 7 - The opposition know that if they shut him down it's game over . 8 - He gets very little support in the midfield generally ( which must be taxing ) And the whole team is largely poor in most of our losses . 2012 - Hopefully it all changes and we get an even spread right across the whole midfield . I can't help but think if Brent was still in the LG then he wouldn't be copping it as much . It's a classic case of opportunism by some . And to say he had a poor year is just not right . Cheers

Well Brent has progressed to generally playing very well when we win ( from sometimes good ? ) Moloney is not Chris Judd or Gary Ablett but we still should be thankful we've got him . How's our midfield without him ? As I said in an earlier post it's the other midfielders who need to get better . Cheers

Brent now gets more touches in our wins ( 4 more ) . So he's improved yeah ? Cheers

Yours is not measured criticism . It's unnecessary criticism . Clearances - best - Moloney . Hard ball gets / Contested possessions - best - Moloney . Maybe if a few more players stepped up a tad in these crucial areas we'd win more games . If we'd won a few games when Brent was quiet what would you say then ? I could mount an argument that if we were without Brent we might have only won 4-5 games . Stats can be used in reverse remember ? As far as I'm concerned when OUR team gets stitched up then the whole team takes the blame . Not just one bloke . Do you expect Moloney to dominate every time he plays ? Dane Swan had a quiet one in the GF . Sack him ? He had a few mates that day as well btw . Cheers

Yep , you're probably right 'skills' , but it's the instigators of the thread going off the rails that are at fault primarily . People taking potshots at our best player last year is always going to create conjecture . I don't always bite but I'm sick of the needless player bashing . 'Bossdog' said it best in post #41 . By the way , do you not feel like defending Brent ? Back on topic - Martin Flanagan is the best ! Cheers

Hardly any mention is made of our other poor performances ( Eagles , Hawks , Pies , Blues twice , North , etc ) These other "shockers" have somehow become "lost" . To focus on one game can make it sound like an abberation and it wasn't . We have a whole new FD now and a whole new direction and like you I expect our team to play finals this year . If there is some form of "redemption" it should be based on the whole of last year not just that game . I do , however , reckon Mark Neeld will be zeroing in on the positives .

Good points there D . Brent is no longer in the LG and some here want to put the boot in . Maybe Neeld wants to develop others in the LG to see if the added responsibilty gets the best out of them . He may see Moloney as one of his on field motivators and that's his best and ideal role . There's probably nothing sinister in Brent not being in the LG . ( IMO ) Cheers

Yeah , he was poor in that game . But so were the large majority of the team . If he doesn't play we still get thrashed . We were also very poor in a number of games last year not just that game . Too much is made of 186 . To me it was the straw that broke the camel's back . Cheers

I saw Robbie Flower get beaten more than a few times in his career ( against good sides ) According to some here that may qualify him as a flat track bully . It's a totally flawed argument . Oh and 'Lutz' , next time you run into your "Mate" Brent Moloney , make sure you tell him what you've said on this site about him . Now , I reckon we'd all like to be "Flies on the wall" for that steamy conversation !! Cheers

Nice of you to put my comment "out of context" Poor form ! I just put my comment back into context . Next time you want to quote me include the whole lot ( when needed ) Cheers

It's not a perfect world Wyl . Cut the bloke a bit of slack . We've all made errors and maybe he thought he'd be ok once he ran out there . You know , mind over matter stuff . Maybe he thought he'd look weak by pulling out of the game ? To put the focus Moloney in 1 game when the whole team was rubbish is wrong . Sylvia and Jurrah were dropped after that game if you remember . Cheers .