Macca

"The more you explain it, the more I don't understand" Mark Twain

Twain actually came to Australia on a talking tour in the 1890's ... he'd hit a financial crisis and needed the dosh. Visited Horsham, Bendigo, Ballarat, Wagga, Tassie and all sorts. Went to the Melbourne Cup etc etc. Didn't get as far as Freo but who could blame him. The book (Following the Equator) is out in the public domain so you and others can listen to the book here ... 'Following the Equator: A Journey Around the World' The Australian Stuff is from Chapter 9 onwards but I recommend listening in from the start.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" Mark Twain

Same here mate ... we'd probably agree on most things. It is an odd stance but I'm passionate about not blaming umpires. And I make no apologies for that stance. I mentioned to dl earlier that I'm often in match committee mode. Nearly always in fact Which means that nearly 100% of the time I'm looking at ways for the team to improve. Not that I have any influence ... not many of us do. So in my opinion, we lost against the West Coast because we converted poorly. We should have been 6 or 7 goals in front at 3/4 time and from that position you nearly always win. We choked in front of goal and it cost us. But from an overall point of view ... Taking the umpires out of it ... unless we're great we aren't winning anything. Above the shoulders pertains to talent. Without talent, we could get a dream run with the umps and we would still never win big.

I was using you as an example ... and there are plenty here who do the same. Match fixing hey ... that's one hell of an accusation. Be careful not to name names.

Actually, if people stopped quoting me I'd have nothing else to add But, they keep quoting me and I just reply in kind. It might look like I'm trying to dominate the thread but I probably would have only posted a few times but for the quoting

Your sample size is you alone? That's what I call super micro From a bigger picture point of view there are tens of thousands who spew forth their venom about umpires on a weekly basis And if you don't believe there is hate involved then why this thread called 'Umpires hate Melbourne'? Don"t you think the thread title should be changed given your opinion that the umpires aren't hated? Genuine question.

Yet you said this earlier in the thread.

I have probably put up more possible answers than anyone else ... try reading all my post properly. Read post #136. 90% of games the umpires aren't noticed? You have got to be joking. If anything, it is the other way around And yeah, people hate umpires all right. On this site alone the hate spews forth and they get called cheats constantly. You do it yourself ... go back and have a read on what you've said over time. Even on this thread IIRC. You just don't like what I have got to say ... it might be best if you put me on ignore. Trust me, I am not going to mind.

The bias against umpires is firmly entrenched in many ... from a young age we are taught to hate the umpires and see them as the enemy. So trying to change the habit of a lifetime is near impossible for most. We know no other way to address the issue ... unless there is another way. But my comments aren't aimed at the majority ... more so a percentage of the majority who are up to doing an about-face. And you are not one of those persons. But our discussion allows me to air my views and target that percentage of people. It is not really you that I am trying to convince. You've made up your mind. Again, I see what everyone else sees. I see all the mistakes but I apportion blame at the custodians who run the sport and the game itself. The umpires are just the most obvious easy targets. And I reckon a lot of people have never thought about it nor have they ever been challenged about it. Have you ever met anyone that never blames umpires? I have met plenty. But on this site, why would anyone speak up? 'Bossdog' used to but he's no longer here (I wonder why?) As for the 3 umpires that you named and apparently 'like' (Fisher, Chamberlain, Rosebury) most here would probably disagree. But I wonder if they will come at you about your views? Probably not. But if they do come at you, you're going to have to argue on their behalf. That would be funny.

I completely disagree with just about everything you've said ... we are worlds apart. I played in the 80's but have been watching the sport since the late 60's I am not sure we have heard the end of this either ... it's about time the umpires took some affirmative action. Not many people have to go about being insulted the way umpires are whilst trying to do their best. I can understand the emotion attached on game day and perhaps a day or 2 later but this umpire bashing is a 365 days a year thing for many. Obsessive/Compulsive/Addicted springs to mind. And if we didn't have umpires we wouldn't have a game. Do you want them all sacked? Are there any umpires that you don't dislike ... if so, name them. And if you can't name one umpire that you don't dislike, you must dislike every one of them So name the umpires that you don't dislike. I am going to need 10 or 12 names not just a couple. Prove to me that you're not heavily biased in this area.

No he didn't He got off lightly Back in my day you would have sent off and incurred a suspension for talking in such a disrespectful way to an umpire He should thank his lucky stars How would you like to be insulted like that?

The AFL loves being in the news ... any publicity is good publicity for them so people constantly talking about the umpires is probably music to their ears. They have one eye on the money and the other eye on what makes them the money. Makes good business sense and sport is big business these days. The old days are gone. We don't have to like it but we almost certainly have to live with it. A lot of the major sporting bodies act in similar ways ... always looking to be in the news. Soccer, the NBA & the NFL are 3 good examples. Especially soccer ... the big money clubs control the sport. As for FIFA - where does one start?

Full time umpires might alleviate the issue surrounding the point that you make above but the biggest issue to me is what goes on in a general sense in congested situations. Incorrect disposal, throws, high contact that isn't dangerous, ducking, prior opportunity that is questionable etc etc. It is why I believe the game needs to be opened up ... a modicum amount of congestion is ok but again, too much congested footy is too hard to officiate. And the criticism of the umpires has increased a great deal coninciding with the extra congested footy that we've seen of late. I'd make some major changes to the sport in order to open the game up.

Match committee's at local level. I got 'removed' on numerous occasions and then a year or 2 later I'd get appointed again! I put a few noses out of joint ... you have to be that way in order to get things done. I haven't changed although forums are a completely different beast. I prefer a macro view as I believe that if you fix things in a big picture way, the micro issues are never as pronounced. At MFC level, our concentration should always to be to build and maintain a great list and have top coaching and top admin. And we haven't had that since the Smith days. Some good to very good lists but never great. Our list right now is good and if all our good players were available, maybe very good. We are a ways off being great but we live in hope. If that happens that fortress-like atmosphere at the MCG that you talk about can be a reality. Home town decisions might then even come our way! Would we be complaining about having an advantage like that? Not a chance.

In a nutshell the league needs to improve the game so that the umpires have got a chance to umpire the game properly (or as best they can) My fix is included in post #136. Go and have a read and critique and comment as you please. I'd appreciate the feedback So I haven't given up at all ... I believe that given the myriad of issues that the sport has, I just refuse to believe the umpires are out to get us or that they hate us. And to remind you MR ... the thread title reads - 'Umpires hate Melbourne'. Not do the umpires hate Melbourne but a blanket - 'Umpires hate Melbourne' A much better title would be ... "The AFL has a Major Problem with how the Game can be Officiated" or words to that effect. That would be a more sensible way of addressing the issue. I get it ... people like to vent but again, the problem is a system one not a back-end one. And back in the day you had to be a 5 goals better team in order to win at Vic Park, Princes Park or Windy Hill. Home town bias has always been there. Not easily fixed, that one but the very same arguments went on 40 years ago.

Yeah ... home town decisions do occur. I freely admit that but how do you fix it? Other professional sports can't and if you think the problem is just confined to the Eagles, you need to look elsewhere as well. As previously stated, the sport needs to be fixed first. Make the game easier to umpire otherwise the problem remains. I see what you see ... but I'd rather address the problem from the front-end rather than the back-end. How do you reckon you'd go umpiring an AFL game? My view is that it's an absolute nightmare to umpire. Incorrect disposal is no longer incorrect disposal. Throws are allowed. I could go on and on And the umpires are acting under instruction. You should be blaming the league ... that's where the problem lies.

I agree but the sport needs to be improved dramatically for the complaints about the umpires to die down to a minimum. Even in the 'Open' footy of the 70's there were a thousand complaints. It's that sort of game. Small improvements won't be making much difference as it's a complete mess right now. But improvements need to be made, all the same. Just because I don't blame the umpires directly doesn't mean I've given up. The odd bit is that nearly everyone here is on the same page in terms of what we see ... it's the apportioned blame and the fix which are the issues. As for now, I'm not blaming the umpires where as others will. My fix ... post #136 Feel free to critique it or make any comments that you like. I would appreciate the feedback. Another question ... does the AFL even know how big the problem is? I reckon they just look at the $$$$'s.

Ha ha! Appreciate your feedback GCDees Read my post above for my fix ... but it is highly doubtful whether even 1 person would agree with my fix entirely Some of it yeah but all of it, not a chance. But I'm having a go because I see what everyone sees ... a myriad of mistakes. Most want to blame the umpires for those myriad of mistakes but I have always thought it was the actual game issue (the rules and how the sport is played) By the way, I have been hearing the same level of complaints about umpiring since the late 1960's. There has never been a year where the umpires haven't been in the firing line. So if it is every year as I'm suggesting, the outcomes are similar to the flawed drafting system we have. A system problem rather than a back-end problem.

It seems that as much as I am diametrically opposed to most on this thread I am at least putting up a possible fix willmoy Most others are just annoyed at the umpires and want it fixed ... full time umpires being the main answer But that would never be enough as the sport is extremely difficult to umpire right now and it is harder to umpire than it ever was Here are some of the suggestions that I have put forward previously ... all designed to improve the sport and make it easier to umpire - 15 a side - Either no interchange or 10 rotations per team for the entire match - More defined rules such as incorrect disposal being clamped down on and 'Around the neck' being paid for crude tackles only. Any ducking to be penalised retrospectively. - keep '666' in to accompany the above - Full time umpires - Kicking backwards to be outlawed (must kick over the mark) and a mark only paid if the ball travels at least 20 metres There's almost certainly more that can be done to make the game easier to umpire but that'll do for now. But there lies another problem ... most don't have a problem with how the game is currently designed or played ... many want the game to be left alone. 'Let the Game Evolve' is the catch-cry. My rebuttal is that unless we make the game easier to umpire, the problem with umpiring remains. And right now, I am not apportioning blame on the umpires. That's the back-end of a much bigger problem.

I said that the whole yelling and screaming at umpires is part of the sport For proof ... go to any game. The yelling and screaming is there for the whole match bar a few quiet spots here and there. And it has been going on that way since the 19th century Why? Because the game cannot be umpired correctly therefore there are numerous mistakes made. Therefore the crowd yells and screams at the umpires. It's not rocket science. So if you want every decision to be correct, please explain how that can happen. Genuine question. Has to be a feasible answer too. No pie in the sky stuff Be realistic.

I believe numerous people would be put off umpiring based on the hate, abuse, disrespect and anger that would come their way as a matter of course. And the word coming out from football bodies is that it is hard to attract umpires to the sport. In junior footy umpires are doubling up or umpiring numerous games on the weekend. And that has been the case for decades Of all the thousands of people who contribute or read this site, how many are umpires or would do it. I'm guessing very few. The proof in the pudding is in the eating. You could do it because as you said, umpires can earn in excess of $100k per season Why not give it a go? What have you got to lose? And for anyone out there who is a footy umpire, come on here and have your say. Those at the coalface would know more than us.

Whilst the football community continues to spread their hate, anger & disrespect towards umpires, not much should be expected in return. I mean, what do people expect? That catch-cry of 'They're only human' is an insult in itself (if you think about it) And because of that hate, anger & disrespect I believe we are never going to attract enough people to umpiring. Who would want to do it? So the umpiring ranks often attracts certain types as a general rule (in my opinion) You get what you pay for and it works both ways. Daisy Thomas shouldn't expect any favours given his way in the foreseeable future (if he is guilty) I have seen umpires being called cheats on this site hundreds of times. That sort of stuff creates a vicious circle. No good comes from it. Apart from all that, footy is by far the hardest sport to umpire so mistakes are going to be made as a matter of course If any sport needs video replay it's footy ... yet footy only has goal line replay and not much else. But bringing in video replay for all questionable calls would lengthen any given game by hours. So it isn't feasible. But I also believe that a large part of following footy is the whole yelling and screaming at the umpires bit ... it's part of the sport for most. It is part of the fabric of the game. That stuff matters not for me thus you get the other side of the argument

The real answer is to deconstruct and then reconstruct (kicking action) ... but I am not sure that any of the clubs have ever gone down that path often enough. At our club, has it ever happened? Under 18 players are not the finished product so therefore all aspects of a draftees game need to be looked at as soon as they arrive at a club. More so in the juniors if we're being proactive about it. The yips (or choking) in front of goal has a correlation to kicking actions. Stewart Loewe was one who improved his kicking in a substantial way but I can't think of too many others. The sport is more about keepings-off than it ever was so kicking to position is of paramount importance. Kicking for goal the same. You can't turn the ball over and you have to be accurate in front of goal. Practice makes perfect but practising with a poor action is often a waste of time. You'd like to think that the club would be on top of it but in the case of Petracca, his kicking action hasn't improved from what I have seen. And because if that, the yips can get worse. He'll be sledged about it too which will only accentuate the problem. But he is not the only one ... we have any number of players who have technique issues with their kicking. And we just lost a very winnable game (again) because of our poor conversion rate Footnote: Right handed Golfers who block the ball out to the right (under pressure) have technique issues. And they know it too so that's why they often reconstruct. Lefties the same. Doesn't always work though as muscle memory is a strong factor.