Macca

You need to be proactive on this issue if it is such a problem for you. Contact the AFL with your concerns. It is no good voicing your concerns on these types of forums as nothing will come of it. And don't ask me to do the same as I don't have a problem with the inconsistencies of umpiring ... never have, never will. And make sure you put your argument across in the same manner ... with the Melbourne Football Club at the forefront. And don't start using capital letters either. Send them a link to this thread while your at it it (Umpires hate Melbourne) ... you could also link up all the other similar threads from the various other clubs that are along the same lines. You want change, make it happen. Garner support from others but those others can't start arguing in a macro way all of a sudden. The argument has to remain as a Melbourne Football Club issue. Come to think of it, you might want to contact the MFC first. Let me know how you go dc

I might kick it back to Sunday's only for a while fellas ... just like the racing thread, need a break! Happy to continue on with Sunday's though.

I am as passionate as the next bloke ... and level headed (mostly) I did overstep the mark here last night and I do apologise for that. No excuses either. I spent decades on MC's and when you do that you learn very quickly that you can't make excuses and the winning comes from hard work, sweat & toil. And talent with good coaching. And you can't get sidetracked. The premierships followed. Laver & Federer just got on with the job and they are regarded as the 2 best ever. The Cats played fair and what a team they were. So it is entirely possible to be a fierce competitor and play sport in a fair manner and be very successful. Robbie is another great example - I never saw him once dispute a decision. Set a great example.

If we play to our best and kick straight we're quite capable of beating any team ... the talent is there despite Lever, May, Hibberd, Melksham & Lewis being out injured. Gawn, Brayshaw, Oliver, Petracca, T-Mac, Salem, Jones, Hunt & Harmes can all be very good whilst Frost, Garlett, Hore, Oscar, Fritsch and a few others can all play their part. Friday was encouraging despite our poor conversion rate ... I'd say most didn't give us much of a chance but I'm convinced that we kicked ourselves out of it. And that's a damn side better than not being good enough.

We have to win at least 2 of the next 3 to have any chance ... we can't be 4 & 8 by the time the bye comes around. 5 & 7 (or better) and we're a chance. Getting our good players back will help but if Gawn, Brayshaw, Oliver, Hunt, Harmes, Petracca, T-Mac, Jones, Salem & maybe Frost, Garlett & Hore can all produce their best in all the upcoming games, we can beat any team. It's a big ask but that's the standard required.

Jack will find his best form soon enough ... he's obviously carrying something which makes him look a bit proppy and not freed up in his movements. We've had a few like that this year including T-Mac who looked to have rediscovered his movement in the first half on Friday evening. Jones is another and Hibberd early on. Harmes took a while to get going as well and Petracca the same. From an overall team point of view the side seemed to spring into action on Friday night but we can't let our guard down in any given upcoming game. Have to win at least 2 of the next 3 games. We just need to bring our best. We've got enough good players available to win games.

In general we don't have a crowd factor in terms of influencing the umpires but every now and then we do ... we'd be at the bottom end of the scale though. Circumstances govern that way of thinking. As for umpiring decisions in our favour, that sort of thing is rarely acknowledged on this site ... when it's the other way around though, it's quite a different story. Read any game day thread or post match thread for confirmation. In the game on Friday night, we got the rub of the green in the first half but I didn't see any acknowledgement of that. Again, these are just opinions as many here would probably vehemently disagree with me. In the round 22 game last season at the Eagles there was a thread created here a month beforehand where various people chimed in with how much we were going to be on the receiving end of dodgy decisions. Didn't happen as there was barely a murmur about the umpires - we won the game of course so there's your probable explanation. You can keep asking me questions but the bottom line is that I see what everyone else sees ... my reaction is different. I've given you and others food for thought so we should close off.

Well people keep quoting me as they don't seem to like what I've got to say. I'm just replying in kind. Besides which, your side of the argument is repeated by hundreds of posters on a constant basis on numerous threads. My view is not even close to squaring the ledger And I believe that I'm right in what I'm saying ... for many here, they've never witnessed or even acknowledged the other side of the argument. As I said previously, it's drummed into us from a young age that the umpires need to be treated like the enemy. I don't agree with that assertion so there you have it.

Just an observation ... it might be crowd related, who knows. See, I don't believe we get a bad run with the umpires in general - so I notice it when we are the beneficiaries. I'd say most others don't as in my experience, too many get caught up in the injustice when we're on the receiving end of dodgy decisions.

The point I'm making is that umpiring errors happen (I see what everyone else sees) and that those errors happen for all teams - even the Eagles (more so away from home) So, it's not just us. But by reading this site, you'd think it was just us being on the receiving end of dodgy decisions. What do reckon opposition supporters would think of this thread for instance? "Umpires hate Melbourne" ... they'd probably get a good laugh out of it. And there's no admiration for the Eagles Fortress-like home ground advantage ... more so an acknowledgement that these things just happen. And the same things happen in a lot of sports. I have just never been one to blame umpires ... not as a player nor as a spectator. And there's others like me too ... they are just not very loud about their thoughts. For good reason too - who needs the angst? I do this every year for a couple of days and then I shut up. I like to send a message, that's all.

We are a long way off having a fortress-like home ground advantage ... it could happen as I suppose anything is possible but I don't even see the Pies or Tigers creating that sort of atmosphere at the MCG. Not against the other Victorian teams anyway. The Eagles have that mantle and their supporters know it. Us against the interstate teams? It's possible but the crowds we draw against the interstate teams aren't large anyway. Right now, the club needs to find a way to play high standard consistent footy. The rest takes care of itself if that happens. Besides which, I often find that we get a good run from the umpires when we play the interstate teams at the MCG.

We do it too (the 'Ball' cryout)... and so does every other supporter group. It is just that the Eagles fans create a fortress-like atmosphere that creates an advantage. A lot like Victoria Park, Princes Park & Windy Hill ... back in the day. And it rarely, if ever happens at the MCG. Footy Park was the same but I am not sure about the Adelaide Oval.

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Yep ... that is the real issue. If we were switched on from round 1 we'd be sitting on 5 or 6 wins. The fact that we are 3 & 6 is an indictment on the FD and the list. We wait around til round 9 before playing our best. Bit late.

I have also pointed out that certain teams in any sport will get more home town decisions than other teams In professional sports with full time professional referees. And that has been happening for decades. It is just a quirk of pro sports and it falls into the 'does happen' category. Good luck trying to fix it. I'd rather get on with it rather than get bogged down with injustice issues. And it's true, we generally don't have a home field advantage with regards to the umpires. Although, against a number of interstate visitors we've had a good run on many occasions. We're not always on the receiving end of poor decisions. We're often the beneficiaries. In a way, it all evens itself out although I do concede that the Eagles get a better run than other teams. But the fortress-like atmosphere that their fans create is the factor that contributes to that advantage. Some would say good on 'em for doing so. It's a lot like the various soccer nations having to play at Montevideo (Uruguay) I could give you a stack of other examples. Any number of EPL teams get a better run at home from the refs as opposed to away from home. Same deal for the NFL, NBA and the MLB. All with full time professional referees.

I reckon we got the best of the umpiring in the first half and into the 3rd quarter. And we often get the rub of the green in many other games. So it all evens itself out ... in my opinion. Do you remember the last 5 minutes of the QB clash in 2017? And equally, numerous people here are suggesting that I should jump up and down and complain bitterly. Not just on this thread either ... on numerous threads on a constant basis. it's never ending. I've never done it and I'm never going to do it (complain bitterly) As previously stated, I view the sport differently. Others think like me it's just that they don't want to get involved. It's a minority view obviously but so be it.

It is not your point but it is my point. I factor in home town decisions but I don't factor in poor kicking for goal. Unless that happens constantly. Kick straight and we win. And that is something that we control. We blew a golden opportunity to win in the West. By contrast, we didn't blow that opportunity to win over there in round 22 last year.

In practical terms when a team plays the Eagles in WA that team needs to be 5 goals better in order to eliminate the home town bias. They have one of the most influential crowds in world sport but ... the same thing used to happen at Victoria Park, Princes Park and Windy Hill to name just 3 other venues The Yankees get a bigger strike zone at home, Man Utd are famous for getting home stadium decisions and the New England Patriots are favoured at home too. It is a staple of sport. But not for every team. I don't believe that home town bias has ever happened for us and that is largely due to the MCG not being that sort of venue (although supporters of interstate teams might disagree) So we're up against it but again, in practical terms, can you see anything changing? It never changed at Vic Park, Princes Park or Windy Hill. You couldn't buy a free at those venues. I do agree with you about full time umpires but the AFL prefer to sit on their hands. 'Shoudn't happen' is the catch-cry but 'does happen' is the reality. Home town decisions aren't going away in a hurry. Norm Smith had the answer ... bypass all that and just be better than all the other teams. If we were 6 goals up at 3/4 time against the Eagles then this conversation probably wouldn't exist.

I am not a believer in conspiracy theories so I don't believe there is any bias against us by the umpires. Home town crowds can effect officials but that is the same in any sport. Nor do I believe that they are out to get us or hate us in any way. And don't be thinking that others don't share my view ... they do but they're not getting involved. My belief system remains that if we're good enough, we'll win. If not, we won't win. As previously stated, we kicked ourselves out of it on Friday night and there lies the real problem. Can be fixed too with a lot of practice.

I haven't thrown in the towel ... a 20% improvement is possible but that is about all that could be hoped for. So we'd fix 10 decisions out of 50 disputable decisions. That leaves 40 and we're still left with a mess. And I am not talking about the actual frees given alone. Real improvement can be made if we scrapped the interchange, brought it down to 15 a side, got rid of flooding and congestion and fixed a few other areas like kicking backwards and the epidemic of boring short passes. Instead of that every year we make it harder and harder for the umpires. That is the trend and it is not going the other way in a hurry unless the very fabric of the sport is changed in a dramatic way Do you want that? I am guessing no as you've previously stated that you prefer footy the way it is now. Leave it as it is and the problem continues. Band-aid approaches like 666 have no real effect. My views on how to fix the sport goes back to the 90's

NBA is difficult but still not in the same league as the AFL. Certainly not in the current form that it is in (AFL) Half the issue is the congestion. I watched some local footy yesterday and there was almost no congestion so the game was way easier to umpire. So the congestion needs to be fixed - trouble is that most don't have a problem with congestion. They want the game left alone. Many even enjoy the congestion. As for full time umpires, I am all for it. But the game needs to be fixed at the same time. I can't see it though as I have zero faith in the custodians. They are watching the money. The punters have had a problem with the umpires from the day dot. Goes way back. I haven't given up either as some are indicating ... more so accepting things for what they are. You could have 15 a side, no interchange, full time umpires and more clearly defined rules and there would still be a thousand disputes. Too many grey areas in a 360degree sport.

In some games I see 'incorrect disposal' happen up to 30 or 40 times. But the umpires are instructed to not pay it or only pay the blatant infringements. And they don't always get it right. Again, there's a lot going on so a fair bit of leeway needs to be given. So we could see an extra 30 or 40 free kicks paid in any given game and that is just 1 type of incident. Who wants that? And what about the rule where a player is supposed to kick over the mark? Not adhered to and again, not the umpires fault either. They are acting under instruction but we blame the back end of a problem. Let's not forget that things were going our way in the first 3 quarters against the Eagles and we should have taken advantage. We didn't and then got run over. We gave them an opportunity and they took it. That is how I viewed the game. As for the whinging about the umpires, the winning or the losing shouldn't be a factor but it is. There is an outcry in a close loss but barely a murmur otherwise. And every group of supporters acts in the same way.

Even if things were improved by 15 - 20% you'd still see numerous mistakes. I see up to 50 mistakes made in every game ... the numbers are through the roof. But it's the nature of the sport. I came to terms with it all decades ago ... so I'm not like you. Why is that a problem? In the end, the best teams win a large percentage of their games because they are the best teams. We need to become one of those best teams and then the umpiring won't matter to those that it matters to now (in a general sense) Have you not noticed that the moaning about the umpires goes hand in hand with the losing? ... usually the close losses. Win games (or get smashed) and there is barely a murmur. You and I see the sport differently.

Full time umpires would improve things BM but I still believe the actual rules can't be definitive anyway It is just the nature of the sport ... Rugby League by comparison seems a very easy game to adjudicate. Union a bit harder. Soccer - trickier still. But our game is out there on it's own in terms of degree of difficulty in the adjudication of the rules. Reducing the amount of players on the ground would help but then the fabric of the game would be changed. My view is that we're just stuck with it. The best teams win the premierships anyway so build a great list.

Supporters of teams playing each other see the rules differently too ... if any decision goes against their team a certain percentage will scream and holler even if the decision is correct. And the supporters of the recipient of the free kick are not likely to acknowledge a disputed free kick even if it's a lucky free. They'll happily take that as some sort of weird 'payback' So what hope have the umpires got? Either way, they can never get it right even if they do get it right. It's a no-win situation.