Macca

Some great racing coming up on Saturday both at Randwick & Flemington At Flemington Santa Ana Lane & Sunlight go at each other in the Gilgai Stakes - Santa Ana Lane will no doubt swoop late but will the horse catch Sunlight? In the Turnbull Stakes Mystic Journey, Mr Quickie & maybe Rostropovich should fight out the finish. Hartnell will no doubt be thereabouts And the winner of The Bart Cummings is ballot exempt for the Melbourne Cup. Wolfe, Surprise Baby & King Of Leogrance could easily fill out the first 3 placegetters Up at Randwick an old favourite of ADATR in Osborne Bulls is running in the Premiere Stakes Lets see if we can boot home Wadda's tip. The Epsom Hcp looks a great race. There are a stack of lightweight chances including Kolding & Rock but Te Akau Shark & Dreamforce can get into the finish. And in The Metropolitan it's a wide open affair with any number of chances. The winner might end up gaining entry to the Caulfield Cup and/or the Melbourne Cup in terms of qualifying. It's not a ballot exempt race but perhaps it should be or will be down the track (if RV & RNSW can call a truce and start co-operating with each other) Happy punting folks!

Great to have you on board Gorg And we've got 3 of the 4 best bets (so far) being for the place ... my mind is ticking over again. Another idea forthcoming? ha ha. But seriously, backing the horse for the place does give you 3 chances in a race. It's probably a smarter way of putting together a multi and if we've got 5 participants, even a $1.50 chance adds 50% to the dividend as the final leg. And it's all about getting the collect. #ThePlaceCard Saturday preview to follow

I said he MAY NOT be on big money at Hawthorn Face it, you know SFA like the rest of us

Got any proof? Real proof Even if it is true so what? We're all after money

Frost may not be on big coin at Hawthorn. Could be an average amount for all we know. He might have just wanted to switch clubs regardless of whether we made him an offet or not.

2nd time ... I never said YOU hated him Others do because of the way they talk about him. And that's where my commenrs were directed And for what it's worth I'm not emotionally invested in Frost either. Just the circumstances with the move.

Well you did call him 'Tickets' You are assuming that Frost might have overpriced himself because he's got too high an opinion of himself yeah? Maybe he just wanted out and overpriced himself so as to serve a purpose. And he might have overpriced himself because the club gave him a low-ball offer My guess is that he just wants a new start. And he's got what he wanted by the looks of it. And we'll almost certainly never know the full story.

The other thing is that if Goodwin was always going to let Frost go and at the same time have a mind to keep Oscar why would he continually play Frost instead of Oscar? In the 2nd half of the season especially where he could have got some more games into Oscar. It wouldn't be to keep Frost's value up surely. As it stands, we'll be lucky to get a 3rd round pick for Frost anyway.

My comment about the hate was never directed at you ET. Not sure why you took it personally. When we post we talk to all. And within those posts certain comments are directed at certain individuals. See above.

As for the 'Frost-Ball' observation What a churlish and childish comment coming from the senior coach. Effectively an insult to one of your own players. That's how Frost would have seen it. Plus, one of his teammates berates him for a full 5 minutes during a game. All under the coaches eye. The feeble-minded get amused by it all but Goodwin is only in a position of strength because he's got 3 years to go on his contract. Delivers 5 wins and he's crackin' gags about one of his own players. It's time he grew up.

Well if he was offered a contract that wasn't worth much and another club had offered him a great deal more what is he supposed to do? What would you do? The offer from Hawthorn didn't necessarily come late in the season either. A lot of assumptions being made here and the reality is that all things are possible. My guess is that the Hawks have good relationships with lots of player managers and then act accordingly. The hate for Frost is over the top too. The bloke is trying his best and is probably still a better player than at least half our list. And he gets on the park and the coach keeps putting him into the 22. Or did so previously. I wish him well.

Oscar can become a better player as stated previously. See a few posts above. Whether that happens or not is up to Oscar. And Petty might come on But it's our forward line where the bigger problems lie. Unless we fix that we won't progress far up the ladder I was concerned about our forward line going into the season and was one of the few here that opened up the possibility that we might regress down to 10 wins because of that. But 5 wins? No one picked that. How people can be happy with T-Mac & Weideman as our KPF's really surprises me. I'm not sold on either. Whether we can somehow find an alternative is a big ask too. Maybe later on in the draft but I still reckon we might make a trade for a tall KPF from elsewhere as a 3rd option. There's Joel Smith (maybe) but he can't get on the park.

Best Bet Saturday Flemington Race 2 No.1 Debt Agent $2.35 (Place) Having it's first start in Australia after winning 5 x Group 1 races in Singapore. Running very good times as well. The horse was bred out of NZ and was originally called 'Debt Collector'

Hope your right 55 but I also said that we'd be lucky to win 8 games if we 'Don't' add some real talent Like most, I'm hoping that at the end of trade period, free agency period and the draft that we have added that real talent to the list Not sure we'll snag Elliot but if were to secure him along with Tomlinson, Langdon, a traded in talent or 2 and a couple of decent draftee prospects, we're back in the game. We might even trade out a player who has currency. I haven't heard anything but nothing would surprise me as Goodwin has to get the team winning again to keep the wolves at bay. The biggest issue I see is our forward line. Marking power and goal kicking ability. Our mids need to start hitting the scoreboard too. All that happens and I wouldn't rule out out an 11 win season. 1 or 2 more wins and we're back in the finals. But I see next year as one where we hopefully consolidate ourselves again (after recruiting well in the off-season) And then launch from there. But all things are possible in footy. You just never know.

You'd probably get 100-1 on that exact scoreline! What's the bet it comes off? (100-1 of course)

2 points on offer this week in the tipping comp. Highlight games include the Rams @ Seattle (Friday), Packers @ Dallas and the Browns @ 49ers (MNF) Leaderboard in the Tipping Comp 5 - Dee Zephyr, Go the Biff 4 - JV7, Macca 3 - Dappa Dan 2 - DeeSpencer, Layzie, Clintosaurus, Gorgoroth

We've got about another 20 players in the same category. C & D graders dominate the list But you'd never know it reading these threads. I know the thread is about Frost but we get way too focused on 1 player here. Frost really isn't the problem. The list has gone backwards at a rate of knots and the coaching the same. If we don't get a big influx of real talent we'll be lucky to win 8 games next year. Forget 2018 - that ship has sailed. Hibberd is as slow as a wet week, Jetta is just about done, Salem has regressed, May is injury prone and Lever the same. Hore looks ok. Looks good on paper only

Yes, that too BM but Oscar needs some muscle in the contest. Reality is that he went out of the side and became back-up accordingly. And you do need back--up with key backs. But he'll need to improve his game (and body shape) in the off-season and then force his way into the side and stay there. Right now, that's a big ask. But all things are possible and I wish him well. And here's the thing, back-up players eventually get replaced by those who have a chance of becoming good, established players. And if the team doesn't get back into finals then a greater number of list changes eventuates. I'm sure most know all that but for now, Oscar will remain. Beyond 2020, who knows?

Oscar needs some beast-mode if he wants to become a better player. Put some real muscle on that frame and play with more aggression accordingly. His actual skills when kicking aren't too bad but he gets outbodied far too easily in marking contests. Thus when the ball hits the deck he's often out of position I'd keep him as back-up though as injuries are almost a given in the AFL.

Frost may well have overpriced himself to get out of the joint. Quite freely too without Hawthorn telling him to do so. Or the Hawks might have played that card. Or perhaps the 'too-high' asking price isn't actually true at all.

What about the rest of them? Do you let them off the hook? You shouldn't. They're all as bad as each other. Coach killers but the coach isn't that good either. I'd clear the decks rather than try and single anyone out The players rule the roost and the club lets them do it. Most people I know that are non Demons all make the same observation. And the same types of players who rule the roost are the first to jump ship when it suits them.

That aside I found it stunning that Goodwin quite openly admitted that he didn't coach the fundamentals this season We're looking for the 'Extra's' and the basics get ignored? What the hell are we paying the bloke 800k per year to do? Serious question. And whatever happened to 'Fearless Football'? Now sounding a lot like "We'll be the hardest Team to Play Against'

I said the very same thing here last night ... do what you do, do well (and all that) Team rules should always carry nuance when factoring in players strengths and weaknesses For instance, Robbie Flower's long handball to position probably wouldn't suit Goodwin's style. But it is a weapon rarely seen in today's rigid style of football Goodwin needs to let the players show their individual traits. Hardwick now lets his players play. And it all fits together well.

Yes they do. Same as the players had to take responsibility during the Bailey & Neeld years. I always remember those comments from Brad Green about the players needing to buy-in to the new regime under Neeld. At the time I thought it should have just been an automatic thing to do rather than making an effort to do so. But I'm not sure they did anyway and we look like we've regressed back to kind. We can't go back to just sacking the coach again. A lot of work ahead but it's better to evaluate the list after the trade period and after the draft. And then we reboot and start all over again. We supporters know what is ahead of the team but does the team know?

You make good points AF and I don't disagree with what you've got to say but it's both really. Actual disposal skills and the inability to make position. And an example of our poor disposal skills is our kicking for goal. Yip-City. Ball drop, approach, execution, follow through and even how we line up is error-ridden. And not just when we're lining up for goal. The biomechanics aren't there. But the inability to make position may be of greater concern if it highlights how lazy we are. Coupled with rjay's info that the players aren't carrying out basic instructions. Not good.