Macca

History tells us that the merger was more a takeover of the Hawks. Which I wouldn't have wanted either. In an ideal World we'd still have South & Fitzroy playing out of Melbourne. And some suburban venues such as Carlton, Footscray and a redeveloped Junction Oval. Maybe even Moorabbin. Big crowds at footy venues isn't the be all and end all (IMO) I really liked the PJ & Roos combo and if they'd stayed on the other Pillars might have ended up as valuable as those 2. Or improved to that sort of level. You need standard setter's. But I don't believe we've got anyone that is incompetent in important positions at the club but there's not many standouts. Kind of reflects the current board. Home base will help of course but we need top people in charge in all the important positions.

Smith was exceptional ... to have all that success without a working Committee (Board) was phenomenal. Still reckon the zones put an end to things but as has been pointed out in previous posts above, we didn't put enough work into the zones anyway. The Metro area included a few inner South East suburbs such as Prahran & Malvern. Then another pocket which included suburbs such as Murrumbeena & Ormond and another pocket which included the not-fully-developed Edithvale & Aspendale suburbs. Not strong footy suburbs at the time. Our Country zone (Goulburn Valley League) wasn't all that productive either. But again, how much work did we put into these zones? Previously we brought in any number of top talent's from all over Country Victoria.

I'm the same ... 2012 through to the end of 2014 we were bereft of talent. We were hopeful back then but deep down there wasn't a lot of substance on the list or within the FD. Roos first year where we went 4 & 18 confirmed a lot of things. And Roos delisting or trading out 30+ players over 3 off-seasons also confirmed a lot of things. Last season was unacceptable.

With respect Ernest our financial position worsened last season ($1.5Million loss) despite being heavily invested in Pokies & NT money. And those 2 income streams are being scaled back moving forward. On top of that the virus is effecting the financial viability of all clubs so we'd be better placed if we were in a strong financial position. And we lost 17 games last season and lost our way (again) Our former captain (Nathan Jones) described the year as the toughest he'd been through. Even worse than 2012/13? I'd like to share your optimism but I'm circumspect about it all. Any sort of success this season would be viewed as a bonus (IMO)

Defamation it is then. Although a person can go to jail for up to 3 years (in this Country) with regards to extreme cases of defamation. Calling an umpire a cheat on live TV might not seem to all that harmful to some but Don Blew had other ideas. And good on him for sticking up for himself. Again, Smith settled out of court after Don Blew sued him for defamation. An extreme case of defamation? I reckon maybe but such is the disdain for footy umpires in general, most would disagree with my thoughts Fact is the board were probably never going to back Smith re his slanderous comments and the rest is history. And I stand by my assertion that Smith in some ways brought about his own downfall. But again, great coach. On the surface of it the Board should never have sacked him but they might have wanted to disassociate themselves from him and his actions and comments. Why else would they sack him?

Very good point Gonzo ... doomed to making the same mistakes over and over again because of inherent thinking. Not being able to adapt is one thing but refusing to adapt is another. What North did in the 70's with regards to recruiting is something that we could have easily done if we had the willpower and the forward thinking. We get self satisfied with a taste of winning and then fall away. That's the pattern through the years. Happened again last season.

I'll keep an eye out for it Gonzo So you believe the club backs Norm and then goes to court alongside him in a libel case? A case they can't possibly win. Where the case will be settled out of court. Why would they do that? Doesn't make sense to me. Put the whole club at risk? Sorry, can't agree with that one. IMO if Smith doesn't call Don Blew a cheat then the board would never have sacked him. He gave them a reason to sack him. So if he didn't get sacked then what? Again, only my opinion but he would have simply carried on as coach (albeit with a bit of turmoil with the board) Business as usual. But because of our zones he would have had to find a way to entice talent to the club ... it's interesting that when Norm was Match Committee chairman at North (appointed along with Barassi at the end of 1972) they embarked on a recruiting drive exploiting the 10 year rule as well as raiding the interstate clubs for talent. Perhaps he could have done the same at Melbourne if the atmosphere was more convivial (more so the interstate talent as the 10 year rule didn't come into effect until 1972 into 1973) As it was, he coached through to the end of '67 with us and the list continued to decline. It was a sad end of course but that sad end could have been avoided.

What bird? Haha. Let's just say that that the board would have risked their own reputations (individually) and run the risk of a huge payout (again, as individuals) if they'd agreed to back Smith. Would you do such a thing if you were a board member at the time? The fact is that Don Blew took Smith to court for what can almost certainly be classed as libelous comments (or slander) and then Smith decided to settle out of court (probably on the advice from his legal representation) In effect, Smith ended up paying Blew an agreed amount to make the whole thing go away. I'm guessing he might have had a few sleepless nights wondering why he ever opened his mouth in the first place. Great coach though. Can you imagine if it were to happen now? It sort of did with James Hird (to a much lesser extent) but that cost dear old James a cool $20k Anyway, if you know your history the board decided to not stand by Smith and then in amongst the turmoil decided to sack Smith only to reinstate him a week later. And the board would have been taking a risk by standing by Smith as they'd be by default, agreeing with his slanderous comments. Would they then decide to settle out of court if they backed Smith ... they probably knew way in advance that they could never win a case like that unless they could actually prove that Don Blew was a cheat. I think it's you who doesn't know how to process new information. Smith calling Don Blew a cheat shouldn't be looked at as a flippant act. Quite the contrary actually ... and it turned out that way much to the chagrin of those who hate umpires. It was a huge story at the time as it would be now but again, I maintain that Smith contributed to his own downfall. Not the sort of stuff that suits the narrative but I couldn't care less. Umpires aren't cheats by the way. They don't hate us and they've never had it in for us. They are just trying their best to umpire a largely un-umpirable sport. All the more difficult these days as the sport is more like scramble-ball rather than football.

You sure Gonzo? Your take on it puts a ribbon on the box but all the supposed conflict beforehand didn't stop the club from having a truckload of success. A bit of infighting and conflict never hurt anyone (as long as it doesn't get out of out) To get things done, pats on the back never really works (IMO) Often people need to be challenged to extract the best results. Look at Barassi at Carlton & North ... went really hard at the best players and it worked. Smith coached the same. Didn't suffer fools so it stands to reason he'd be up against the Board. But the court case was the catalyst moment in my opinion. Those who lived through it may disagree but attitudes towards umpires has never been healthy ever since the game had umpires. It's that sort of sport. At a guess, I reckon most would prefer to agree with Smith's assertion of the umpire in question. And I don't. I reckon he was out of line no matter what his inner thoughts were. He should have never said what he said.

And if Smith didn't call Don Blew a cheat the conversation we're having right now may not exist. Smith almost certainly wouldn't have been sacked and who knows, he might have been able to sort out how to produce talent out of our zones. A sliding doors moment all revolving around one word - Cheat.

In a nutshell the board members wouldn't have wanted to stand by Smith (and they didn't) as they themselves would have then been directly associated with Smith's comment that umpire Don Blew was a cheat. What do you think they should have done? Can you imagine any of the current board members standing by Goodwin if he made such a claim? And whatever the laws of the land were at the time doesn't change the fact that Smith was out of line. As it stands, he settled out of court so we could assume that the umpire was at least compensated in part. And by the way, if you remove all prejudice, you might see it my way. Just for a heads-up, I have never had a problem with any umpiring decision, ever. Hard to believe but it is true. I don't view the sport as many others do. For the most part, we've been a poor outfit in my time following the Demons so a few umpiring decisions here and there means diddly-squat to me (in the whole scheme of things)

The laws of libel & slander would have been the reason why the club didn't back Smith when he called the umpire a cheat. It was a silly thing for Norm to do anyway ... a man of his maturity reducing himself down to acting like a blinkered supporter. And why would the Board members hand themselves a criminal record all because a coach has lost the plot. Smith settled with the umpire (out of court) so there's your answer in a nutshell. Great coach all the same. But the truth is the team was becoming weaker because of the zones and Smith (IMO) turned his attention to the lowest common denominator. The umpires. We no longer had carte-blanche for the emerging talent (via the recruiting genius Jim Cardwell) and that continued on until drafting appeared.

I must say that studying the form and discovering new ways of punting is a lot of fun. The 'hope' attached does help of course Wadda. So I have plucked out a series of multi's at Sha Tin today - all with small outlays to win ok amounts. Was it HG who declared that you back the 2nd or 3rd favourite for the place? Multi 'em up to avoid large outlays though. Got a few favourites involved as well. If I can double my total outlay I'll be happy but there's a couple of big dividends in there if luck is on my side. Good luck to all those having a punt today!

Yes, you are right And I believe the club used a fitness advisor during the Smith era ... someone from Europe that was over here for the '56 games (?) Jim Cardwell was the ace recruiter with Ivor Warne-Smith as Norm's right hand man (a GM of sorts) So not much has changed in terms of the Pillars. Amateur to pro era being a major factor though.

Boards are often full of well-to-do-people who have nearly always done very well for themselves in the private sector or in public life. But they need to work well as a collective providing they know what their objective is and whether they have a chance of achieving that objective. As others have pointed out, we've often fallen short at board level but so have a number of other clubs (periodically) The 6 Pillars that are needed for our club emanate from the board ... and right now, if we were to grade our 6 pillars then it's hard to mark any one of those pillar's higher than 6.5 out of 10. And they are all around that mark. We're a bit beige. Maybe Gawn can go to an 8 and lift the others? He's just starting out but we need some strong leadership but that leadership has to be right across the board (so to speak) The home base arrives as a consequence.

All things happen for a reason ... McLean bleating about the tanking ultimately served a decent purpose. We were completely stagnant and going even further backwards in 2012/13 and the massive changes that happened once PJ arrived might not have happened unless we reached rock-bottom. The investigation saw to that. And massive change often only happens when the proverbial hits the fan (big time) But we're still behind a number of clubs with regards to professionalism & having a ruthless winning culture (IMO) The answer is to have top people filling the 6 Pillars required ... Pres, Footy Manager, Coach, Captain, CEO & Chief Recruiter. A top list of players therefore follows as a matter of course. And then you win (hopefully, win big)

Geez ya don't have to be dead to be stiff, Wadda That's a heartbreaker Might take your lead and go the place & win multis tomorrow at Sha Tin. Just a series of small outlays to win a bit. Moreira & Purton are sure to feature

2 winners so far but both have come from the ADATR team. Put the feet up and let my teamates come through with goods As previously stated, Go Santa! .

Well done lads! Got the early double for a very nice 3 figure collect! Come on Santa!

I had Ranier on top along with DZ's pick (Sikorsky) as well. A bit of luck today and we might come out on top. Fingers crossed Wadda! At work today so you blokes might want to give a bit of commentary on proceedings!

Best Bet (Saturday) Morphettville Race 8 No.1 Santa Ana Lane (Place) $2.45

Still a Hayes horse and in fact the horse has won 3 races since the gear change (so to speak) It's racing well and savaging the finishing line these days. A decent G3 horse and I was confident it could win Saturday. It's a striking looking animal and now has prizemoney in excess of $1.2Million. The Goodwood is coming up on Saturday Wadda ... a top field being assembled by the looks of it.

Had a similar day on Saturday Wadda but backed a few winners today to make up for it. And I'm with you with regards to Russian Camelot ... looks a real good stayer in the making. If not already. There were a number of impressive winners at Caulfield on Saturday ... had backed a few of them previously and probably should have stuck with them. News Girl, Shot of Irish & Oasis Girl especially! But I was on So Si Bon at least ... oh the irony!

Best Bet Caulfield Race 4 No.3 Something Silver (Win) $6

You're full of winners today Wadda. The Sunday Specialist I'm reliably told! Multiple nicknames never hurt anyone! Demons Rock indeed ... that's a good start to the day and Zac is 2 from 2. But watch for Moreira in the middle of the meeting ... races 6, 7 & 8.