Ouch!
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Everything posted by Ouch!
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How does pick 2 get traded (apparently to Adelaide) without Pick 1 being decided first? If Adelaide gets pick 2, and no other picks are given out, thats the same as it being pick 1 is it? Had enough of compromised drafts, odd mini drafts and GWS trying to rort everything.... Bring on 2012 trade week, and Jack Viney! .... oh and I guess the 2012 season as well!
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I think the trading surrounding the 17yr mini draft picks has to be resolved by the end of Thursday. Trade week continues to Monday, and the mini draft is run on Monday as well.
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Thats the spirit!
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Given this is a discreet trade between these clubs, not sure how GWS could come into it. I wonder if the comment by Noble is saying overall result is referring to all the trades they are trying to achieve this week.
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I wonder now that the Hawks have picked up Gunston, they will be more likely to accept offers regarding Lisle, especially since they have no pick inside the top 50....
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He did get injured at one point I remember, but didn't their player list get rotated heavily to get games into all of the list to assess where the list was at. So I reckon there would not have been too many of the 1st year players getting more than 15 -17 games would there?
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Interesting.... just curious is that something that you see us obtaining when? 2013? or further out? I don't think we can be considered a contender for at least another three years personally.... that being the case my premiership forward line would be HF Jurrah Watts Howe F Jamar (as 2nd Ruck) Cook/Lisle/ ??Small Don't really have a lot of certainty about the FF line yet tbh.
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He can be traded if he agrees to the trade, which if he is contracted but homesick could be a possibility. But yeah you would think that compo, warnock and possibly even 37 (If that was coming from Nth for Maric) would be needed.... doubt he would be cheap, and if he is genuinely wanting to come home ..... surely he would have been linked to Carlton
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Fair point, and well reasoned. Martin looked like he was establishing himself as a backman early on, then has had a stint in the ruck, I probably will concede that he could play a role to bring the ball to ground, but just doesn't 'feel' like a natural forward, and the type of player that could punish opposition on the scoreboard. Maybe this is something Leigh Brown can bring out of him given he probably played a similar role in his playing career. Agree totally with the comment about Aussie, I really hope he can hold his spot on the senior list and get his mind and body right for a solid season of AFL. We do have some great dimensions to our forward line with Petterd, Howe, Jurrah and Watts. Aussie and a big forward body! (although I dont' know where Green fits into the forward line there...) ... still think Lisle could offer something though
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I don't know enough about Toy... what role in defence would he play? Looking at his height he isn't overly tall, so is he competing for the 3rd tall? or is he a "quarterback" (Don't like the use of this term) or more a running defender? If he was rated top 5, and has had a year in the system, I suspect Warnock would be bundled with a compensation pick at least.... and if we are still in the running regarding the 17yr old mini draft that might have to play out first.
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Maybe, but again he is still young ... 2008 Draft, Hawks supporters rate him, (it's not like the hawks are shopping him around) and who do we have for this role? I am not convinced Martin can play the role, Cook will take a couple of years to get there, Newton? The only option I could see from within our own list would be putting Jamar up front as a forward, and playing Gawn/Martin/Spencer as rucks.... Who else is out there? No one wants to take the punt on Fev, Dawes has re-signed, and jesse White does nothing to excite me.
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*shudder* I suddenly feel a little unclean
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Yes, it makes sense that they are hanging out for better offers, but also if they hold the picks over to next year. O'Meara, Crouch etc are not on the table, another group of 17 yr olds are, and if GWS win the spoon they can pick O'Meara up next year. ... it's refreshing having another team to loathe other than Collingwood, Essendon, & Carlton isn't it?
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Yeah I read something similar.... although it sounds as though gubby and silvagni don't want to trade any of the picks apparently, so as to have a chance of keeping O'meara .... apparently other clubs are not giving enough to them in exchange for the picks
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So how exactly is it rubbish? Lets use the examples you provided Collingwood have 2 big bodied fowards in Dawes and Cloke, they also rest a ruckman in Brown and Jolly up forward as well. (In their Premiership year) Geelong have 2 big bodied forwards in JPod and Hawkins, they also rest a ruckman in West and Ottens up forward. (This year) ..... we have Watts who needs a year or two more to get the body size right and who's the other one? We rest Martin or Jamar up forward. The rest of the forward line is Petterd, Howe, Jurrah, Green etc.... they are medium sized forwards, we don't have much in the way of smalls up there, possibly cos they don't get fed too many crumbs. You mention Gawn.... Gawn Jamar and Martin are ruckmen.... so we still don't have the 2nd big forward.... let alone the 1st big forward. I think Jamar could play as a forward for us. I am not convinced yet with Martin as a forward, yes he had a good year, but it was acclaim for taking over in the ruck, not as a forward. In regards to the comment with how many games did he play, yeah it's a fair point that he didn't make the side, but where exactly did I state what we should pay for Lisle? I just said I thought he could be worth taking a punt on, and yes... he is not a player you would pay over market value for, maybe 2nd / 3rd rounder and a player like Bate or Maric if they attracted some interest...
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AFL should have stated that the mini draft picks cannot be on traded once awarded to the club that bids the highest..... easy. The picks also are supposed to go to the highest bidder, surely if GC offer up a compo and pick 4 the GWS cannot ignore this and give it to another club for pick 16 or whatever the deal involves...
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True we need midfielders as well, but we don't have the Big forward option up there that can assist in bringing the ball to ground to bring in small forwards. With Neitz and even to a lesser degree Ben Holland, they made a contest and allowed the smalls to swoop. It might be a case that we don't have that big option YET. Not sure if Watts will be that big power option or whether he will be a more mobile option.... don't know if Lucas Cook can become that type of player either.
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Fair question.... I don't know a massive amount about him other than the things that you mentioned above, but have several mates who are Hawks supporters who do rate him, and feel that he will make a solid power forward given the opportunity, At this point however he is behind Roughhead & Franklin... and then a ruckman like Hale resting up there. In one of his games (might have been his first one) he had 3-4 solid marks on the lead in the 'V' and looked very promising.... and then proceeded to muff the shots at goal. Although apparently he is a pretty reliable kick. The vibe I got was that if he had managed to kick these goals then people would be talking a bit more about him.... Again, one of the reasons I think he could be worth a punt is for the exact reason that you are saying.... because I don't think he would be super expensive to obtain, and I am not impressed with other options that people are talking about in regards to power forward options e.g Jesse White etc...
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True I guess, but to me personally, almost everything associated to the GWS feels slimey, and leaves a bad taste in ones mouth. Sheeds, Gubby Allan, Mark Williams all feel like snake oil salesmen, The Recruiting guy (formerly from Nth) who was stood down for verbalising a fellow recruiter. The Scully situation, Basically all wrapped up with the feeling that the AFL will stop at nothing to ensure this club wins a premiership ASAP in order to try and get a foothold in a high risk area. Just doesn't sit well with me.
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yeah yeah I know! The issue I was trying to make was more that the AFL didn't want GWS and GC to be set up like the Bears were.... so they wanted these clubs to pick up some established players to be somewhat competitive. That's how I suspect the other clubs interpretted what was going to happen, and not that GWS would just ignore the "intent" of the concessions entirely. I think GC have gone about this "generally" in the spirit of what was proposed. Do you think GWS have?
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if the picks can be on traded, GWS can effectively use 2 other clubs as mules with a promise to upgrade their picks.... which means the pick can come back to them again. Only thing preventing this from occuring in my view is that this has to occur as separate trades which means that one of the clubs could in theory stab the GWS in the back as a part of it.... Would LOVE to see that happen
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The AFL should not allow the picks in the mini draft to be on traded... Cannot believe that they have left this as a "loophole" open. But I bet that Gubby Allan was thinking/planning this sort of thing all along. Pathetic if you ask me. The AFL set these things in place to get mature players to the GWS so that they would not be a joke in the first year or two... and GWS is doing exactly the opposite... effectively bottoming out intentionally in the first couple of years by taking young players (Scully, Ward etc) and taking picks for the under 17 mini draft, rather than making plays for players who have been in the system for 5-6 years who they should be tempting over with the cash. They are funded by the AFL, they don't really care if they win a couple of spoons, it just means more young players and draft picks. It's against the spirit of what the other clubs agreed to when these concessions were granted.... although spirit and integrity doesn't seem to mean as much these days as it used to. It's a business I guess
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Jordan Lisle from the Hawks would be my preference. Behind Roughead and Franklin as a power forward.... and they want Gunston as a more mobile 3rd tall option.... and they have Hale as well.
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Agree that they still trump us, but not by much. Do you know the value/type of Compo pick GC have to offer with pick 4? Ours possibly could be stronger. We still might offer a player as well to sweeten it (even though GWS have said they want picks) Pick 6 just gets us closer to the mark if we are seriously trying to secure O'Meara...
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Ahhh sorry, I probably wasn't clear in what I was replying to, I was referring to your second point about pick 12.... I got the bit about our compo pick. ... and incidentally I agree, I don't know why the other picks would get involved... but perhaps Port are rating the value of Pick 6 a fair bit higher, hence why we trade our 1st and 2nd picks for their 1st pick and their 3rd one (.... and Bate)
