Ouch!

Paul Johnson didn't really have too much to add I didn't think, I agree that whilst the look of Dees fans cheering when we lost the game against the Tigers wasnt' a good look, the simple fact was that we were leading at the siren. So Brown's input isn't much more telling than before. Robbo isn't exactly baying for our blood, http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/time-to-stop-the-rort-that-is-tanking/story-e6frf9jf-1226439846638 if thats the article you are referring to, it sounds more like its talking about the AFL making a stance on this once and for all. He is critical that they (AFL) seem to pretend it still doesn't exist, and given that there are 5 teams that could be tarnished with a tanking brush, I would imagine that the amnesty is the most likely option they would go with unless they sweep it under the carpet again.

Just so I am clear are you advocating a spill at the board level? or moving on people like Schwab etc?

I think its a good point that you separated these issues Billy. One is the issue of tanking... does it exist... and what the AFL will do about it (hint: MFC didn't invent tanking, we don't even do it well!!) The second is about the MFC and whether this is another skeleton in the cupboard that has yet to be fully exposed. Internally supporters knew that the club had put the cue in the rack and were getting players fit for 2010, blooding youngsters etc. Does there need to be a question asked as to whether that was the football department doing what is prudent... or whether it was a directive from admin/board against the best wishes of the football department.....

Ok, so tanking, what is the actual definition that people are subscribing to here? Bailey admitted as have other coaches from other clubs that at the end of the season if you are not in contention, you rest the players that are playing with niggles to get them right for the following season, everyone does that. You play youngsters to get games into them and you play them in positions to see if they can fill a different role. Is this tanking? I wouldn't classify this as tanking. As soon as any club is out of finals contention, winning games of football isn't the PRIMARY focus. It it about what I mentioned above. Melbourne isn't the only club that has done it over the journey (I suspect like everything else, it's another thing we just don't do well ... or at least we sucked at hiding it as well as other clubs. My thinking on tanking is akin to match fixing, and almost instructing your players that we don't want to win this game or pulling players out of the game to prevent them from suceeding on game day? I would have thought that this is the issue that the AFL would be concerned about primarily.... is this wrong?

Except that it was felt that the game had passed him by when they chose not to review his contract at Essendon. I believe that he should have had to go through exactly the same process... or at least be respectful of whatever process the club in question would put before him. You don't go in assuming the job is yours just cos you are Kevin Sheedy. The number of people I have interviewed for positions that thought that they were a shoe in for the role because they were acting in the role and that somehow made that role 'theirs' is astounding. It should give the person a definite advantage, but use the advantage to press your claim.... kinda like how some of our players think that skill is enough, and hardwork and effort come next.

... or why the hell would Sheehan bother to bring it up in an interview which has absolutely no relevance unless he harbours some ill will towards the MFC as well in regards to this issue. I agree it's in the past, (4 years is it??) and it seems to have made Sheedy extremely bitter and vengeful towards the club.

Proudly bought to you by our 'Demons' supporter Mike Sheehan http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/gws-coach-kevin-sheedys-discontent-at-melbourne-demons-interview-process-bubbles-over-on-open-mike/story-e6frf3e3-1226438430894 Whilst I will be interested to see what he has to say, why the heck should Sheedy get an open forum to discuss why he was overlooked and vent his disgust any more than Hardwick or any of the other contenders at the time. Just another chance for Sheedy to put to boot into us, and spout his normal drivel. As a side game, how many times will he mention Scully do you think? I'll say 6 times!

It's making him slightly lean to the right I think RR

I'm sorry, worst ever game? based on what indicator? Because looking purely from a statistical view it is very similar to how this season has gone. 17 possessions, 6 tackles (He even got a hit out this week!) I know stats aren't everything, but trying to use absolutes like "worst game ever" just grinds me. Incidentally, I don't think he would necessarily find form in the VFL, he is still playing a lot better week in and week out than several other mids/players in the side. Only thing that he might get out of the VFL is a close fought come from behind victory, which Casey seems to be doing a lot lately.

Fixed! FWIW I reckon Neeld would have Sellar, Trengove and some others as pass marks. Also depends on the definition of a pass (which is completely different than asking if they have had a better year this year to last.)

This isn't a bad thing

I don't know enough to comment about him, but if we land Viney in the second round, would we target another inside mid ? although it does sound like he has a bit of pace and can play outside as well (as Jordie mentioned above). Incidentally for what it's worth I think I heard Terry Wallace say that he was going to talk about Melbourne and their 2012 draft options, as he described the options on the table for Melbourne are going to be pretty interesting. Obviously if it's on the TAC show it might heavily favour talking about new players through the draft rather than trading for mature ones,.... but figured it was worth a mention for those interested...

His stats are down on 2011, but yeah I agree, I reckon he was looking better in the last month or so..... He got up to take a pretty decent mark against port the other weekend (sure that's only one event) but if he had OP or something like that, I don't think he would be going for marks over the top ....

Which is just another way to tell him you have lost the captaincy JT hasn't had a great year, but it hasn't been any more shocking than a lot of our players, I think MN mentioned that as Jnrmac has pointed out he is leading a lot of the pressure stats, tackles etc... (He is 3rd in overall disposals at the club. Grimes and Jones ahead of him) It most seems like he he is almost trying too hard in these areas and not being able to free himself up for the uncontested possessions. MN also commented that JT is a very intense person, so I imagine that he would be trying super hard to follow the gameplan to the letter, perhaps a little to the detriment of his game, but I can't see the captaincy being taken from him in 2013. He does look a little slower this year than last, but David Misson must have each player on a different physical plan, perhaps they are trying to get a lot of work into his legs and engine, and as such he is struggling for a little pace. If it persisted beyond 2012 then perhaps we might have something to be concerned about.

Thanks, I don't know if I was trying to make too many points, more so observations. I mean lets face it, anyone reading this thread will be able to think of people that they can slot into categories.... The moaners, the illiterate, the fence sitters, the ultra-optimists, the realists, the trolls, the change advocates, the thinkers... I was just trying to take a step back and look at things I did like LD-VC's comment about the annual cycle, as that is absolutely clear in it's own right.

There is a definite life cycle that exists inside Demonland, given our current form it seems even more pronounced. Weekend: Given our form, the match thread and the post match threads are full of emotion, frustration and grief. I personally don't involve myself too much in posting through this time, but I do read a certain number of people's posts either because: a ) they are level headed and I like to get a perspective of the game from these people, and b ) some people's best work comes out of dealing with the typical 'Sack X player/coach/board' posts that eventuate later in the evening after a game First half of the week: A few die hard grumblers still hang around peddling their wares, but generally people have taken a breath, and things start to settle down. We have had time to look at the game again (if we are saddists) we've listened to the coach post match, and some of the players.... and possibly an injury report etc. Some interesting threads might occur during this time, although its more likely to be what do you think about player X from club Y, or select 5 people to cull from the list version6, Second half of the week: This is the time of the optimists. Our perennial happy folk who reckon they have a good feeling, a hunch, or an itch y butt which normally means the boys are going to have a win. But never fear all the naysayers out there, this is also a good time for the 'glass half empty' folk as they get to eagerly wait for the team to be announced only to bemoan that the team will never score goals with a forward structure like that, or how did X get another game after last weeks effort. So, what about it? which part of the week do you prefer in the demonland posting cycle of lift? (oh and any lurkers who just like to read instead of post.... you don't need to reply or post here, am not trying to expose people ) For me I think I prefer to post towards the middle/end of the week, I try to avoid the weekend as much as possible, but do like reading late Sunday and early in the week....

But this is the point.... they might be more talented, but they aren't the players that we want a developing list to aspire to... they have the look, the upper body that looks great on the beach, and they can dominate weaker opposition.... These guys are showing the way for the younger players... and its the wrong way. I'd be happy to let Moloney wander next season, and put Col out there to see what offers come our way... but in saying this, if we let them go, I''d want to see some experience replacing them, ideally players not blessed so much with good hair and unfulfilled potential, but a good work ethic....

That wasn't when he did donuts on the Casey car park in his ute was it? BTW I am not doubting you, but it seems a little odd to 'punish' him like this and then for the president of the club to come out and laud the effort of the player on the donation so publicly, the media made a fair bit of noise about it at the time I thought? Was Stynes unaware of the reason for the donation?

Certainly been good for Carlton, probably in the twilight of his career and would see out his time @ Carlton. He ain't perfect either... doesn't he have a court case coming up soon regarding him and his brother beating up someone? or did that get resolved?

... Not a star player, but Heath Scotland has switched and was pretty servicable for both.

But I don't think he would cost a lot to secure either....

Am not prepared to comment too much into the discussion of whether we should or not, but I seem to recall there was a bit more to it than just him walking out. My understanding is more than he saw that with 1& 2 in the draft and the likely outcome to be Scully and Trengove, and the types of players we already had (Moloney, Jones, etc) I can't recall if Junior and Bruce were still with us either.... But essentially that his opportunities would be limited at the club, and he requested the trade based on those grounds. Carlton obviously had romantic appeal, but they also were in need of an inside mid to feed Judd, Murphy etc... Only a month or so earlier I think we had our first Debt Demolition function, and Brock donated over $10,000 of his own money to the club. Which I think was the highest contribution of ANY player on our list and he would by no means have been paid a huge amount back then either.... 'Melbourne president Jim Stynes has described midfielder Brock McLean's $10,000 donation to the Demons' Debt Demolition campaign as an 'amazing gesture of faith' for the club's future. ' Perhaps worth bearing in mind before commenting that he deserted us... I think it was mutually beneficial for both parties at the time, and to be honest, I would think similarly again now, if we happened to look at him again. It took him a long time to get his body right @ the blues, and his form since going into their side has been more solid than many of our players. He's not an 'A' grader, but he is an upgrade dare I suggest on a player such as Moloney?

how about i guarantee Viney won't come with pick 4 or 12,..... will that make you feel better?

Ummm, I am fairly certain that if we trade with another club for a player that is under contract you have to take on that contract value. It's also likely that you would increase the value of that contract to entice that player to come over, so to say that the player has no say in it is wrong, they have to agree to be traded as well. Again.... that being the case... whats the best way you get a player to agree being traded? Pay them more money... The only time this differs is when a player is coming out of contract and has some level of leverage by threatening to go into the draft if they attempt to facilitate the move themselves

the axe?