Jaded No More

Bate and Newton not good enough for you? Bate is a modern-day CHF. His hands are as good as you're likely to find, he can run all day, he has a huge kick, and he can push into the middle. He is far more versatile and far harder to stop than your traditional, big, one-paced CHF. Have a look at how many opponents he had on Sunday. If the opposition haven't got a player who is comfortable pushing into the midfield, and can't run all day, they'll struggle to shut down Bater. I'm happy with the following forward set-up going forward: Davey Newton Robbo Sylvia Bate Green I would love to see the return of Brad Green to the forward line. As a midfielder, he is average at best, and I'd rather Dunn or Wheatley or Buckley or CJ be given the chance to play on the wing. The forward line I suggested is not the tallest going around, however, if PJ can continue to work on his over-head marking, he could be rotated through there as well.

Newton may have been played one week too late. What difference does it make in the big scheme of things? We've done a good job developing our kids, and they get a good education playing for a very successful VFL side while they're learning. Unless you work at the club, you would not have a clue what sort of developmental programs we have in place, or what is Newton's long-term plan. The fact of the matter is, he was struggling in Sandy reserves until this year, and only lately started to come good in the seniors. There would have been no justification playing him earlier, and it would have made no difference to our team. Better safe than sorry when it comes to dealing with the individual.

He didn't at the time I posted the reply, he went and edited the post. Besides, I'm more interested in a full 22, as I'm convinced that if he has Bizzell in his backline, it means someone important misses out.

Exactly. I was far more interested in point number one than point number two. Clearly Mark Riley's idea of winning close games involves attacking at all costs. Daniher had a different method, which we simply could not implement this season. As for Carlton, their coach might be trying to tank, but his players are bad enough not to have to. Carlton is woeful.

Nathan Jones is awesome! :D

So you don't rate Jones, Bartram or Moloney's ability to win the contested ball in close? I don't think our midfield is in any sort of trouble, the only thing we do need is an injection of speed through there. Bartram's return will help, and Buckley can hopefully make it at this level too.

Poor Ricky is all over the news, as every media outlet feels the need to remind us all how close he came to dying. If he wants to take the rest of the year off, he should. However, Chris Fagan and our club doctors have said that he could be back this season. Get the feeling Bruce will probably play and Carroll should be alright. So changes should be simple this week. Out: Ricky, In: Bruce.

Nope. CJ was definitely involved. It was a quick handball from Buckley to CJ to Bate.

I think it was Dunn to Buckley to CJ to Bate to Juice.... At least some of them can execute the run and carry properly

I'd rather they all went, but Ward and Jamar have more value than Bizzell. As much as it kills me, we haven't got a replacement for Ward in terms of pace down back, not unless we play Bartram down there, in which case we're robbing our midfield of a quality tagger.

It's a disgrace that the kid hasn't won a Brownlow in his 17 matches!

This was CJ's 4th game for the season, and 17th career game. How much more can we expect from him? He had an off day with his kicking, probably nerves more than anything. How many players in our side have played over 100 games and still can't hit a target?

Carlton and Richmond are just two clubs desperate for ruckmen. Whether they use their early picks to get a ruckman, or whether they opt to trade for a developing one, I'm not sure. Jamar, for all of his downfalls, is actually a very solid tap ruckman. He would be a good fit at Carlton, and I'd take a third round pick if it was offered (we won't be so lucky to get pick 14 for an ordinary player again).

The comparison with Buckley and McLean goes to show that we see what we want to see. CJ was on par with both of these for possession, but he gets flamed. His disposal yesterday was ordinary, which was disappointing because he is generally a very good kick. I'd like to see what he can produce with more game time and some confidence under his belt because I join the bashing

So every other footballer on the list gets weeks, months, years to prove themselves, but CJ doesn't? I wonder what people would say about Buckley if his stats read 11 kicks, 2 handballs, 3 marks and 2 tackles? He actually had as much of the ball as McLean! If he is still doing very little by the end of the season, then we can talk about trading/delisting him. Until then, why don't we just wait and see what he can produce with a meaningful stretch of games under his belt.

I think we had this argument before and I found quotes of you saying Bell was hopeless. CJ hasn't had a lot of opportunities to show anything. How many games did Sylvia play before he started to come good? Bell? Carroll? Did you know Wheatley has been on our list for 8 years? I thought CJ was reasonable yesterday, but we can't expect these kids to walk into a side and straight away show us they belong at this level. As I said already, play him till the end of the season, if he doesn't improve, trade him. But don't die wondering.

What's the point of him going into the PSD and taking a gamble, when we could arrange a deal for him where he gets to go to a club who will give him a lot of opportunities, and we get something in return? And I agree on Ward. Pace alone is saving his career. Although you have to admit, for a 30 year old, he's pretty damn quick!

Clint Bartram played one game this year after overcoming his ankle injury, then did his knee at training! Of the players who haven't played this year, 4 are rookies who can't be elevated as we've missed the cut-off date. Weetra has been injured most of the season, and Neville is still playing in the Sandy reserves. We're pretty much down to 24 players to select from this weekend.

I agree with everything you said, except this. I'd rather keep Jamar and Ward over Bizzell. Ward infuriates me, but his pace is something we sorely lack, especially coming out of the backline. His accountability lately has been much improved too. As for Jamar, he'll go because we'll probably get a good trade for him, but back-up ruckmans who can actually ruck are far more valuable than 30 year old loose defenders.

Kennedy. I'm pretty sure you were saying the same thing about Bell last year. You might want to see someone about all these premature reactions.

His disposal isn't perfect, but I raise you Ward, Carroll, Brown... half our backline can't dispose of a footy. I just watched the replay and wanted to add that Miller was indeed good. Punched the ball when necessary, got some tricky handballs away to keep the play moving and managed to shut down his opponent very effectively. Made one stupid kicking error, but apart from that had a relatively clanger-free match. CJ, while he didn't have a huge amount of the ball, I thought was OK for not having played a senior match for so long. The thing that let him down was his kicking, which is uncharacteristic as his disposal is normally one of his strengths. Definitely worth persisting with, and I'm a firm believer in his ability to translate his skills to this level. He IS good enough to be an AFL footballer. Bate was magnificent. He outran 5 opponents and I think he's really found his spot at CHF. One of the most powerful marks/kicks/run combinations I've seen in a player in a long time. Also, when Sylvia and Jones tackle you, you stay tackled. Overall, and as Tim Watson so kindly pointed out, we have some really exciting future prospects who we must persist with. I saw Neita, Green, Bruce, Whelan, Yze and TJ (who I'm sure was asleep) sitting in the stands, and it didn't bother me because their on-field replacements were more than filling their shoes. These young players will carry us towards that elusive premiership better than any Melbourne side in recent times.

Just finished watching the replay and was about to start a thread about a similar topic. McLean is now getting heavily tagged, to the point where he is held, scragged and dragged at every single bounce. The thing that worries me is, not that he struggles through that (who wouldn't?), but that his teammates don't feel the need to go out and help him. He needs to be protected, in the same way Judd is. I saw his opponent literally hold onto his jumper and push him aside as the ball was bounced, which really makes you wonder how he ever gets his hands on the footy. But here's the thing, our expectations of him, are far too high. He has played 52 games, missed 8 weeks with a broken foot, came back to have a significant impact, and is now clearly feeling the effects of having missed 8 weeks worth of match conditioning. Not only that, he hurt himself in the third, limped around for a good 5 minutes before coming off. He is too brave for his own good, and I have no doubt he is having his foot heavily worked on before each match. We have become Brock-centric. We expect him to dominate every single game, but the reality is, he won't. Nobody does. The fact that we think he should, demonstrates how highly regarded he is. Every single Melbourne player this year has had poor matches, and we let those slide because it is part of football. That we highlight McLean's average performances is a credit to his amazing consistency in the face of some bad luck with injuries and heavy opposition attention. If nothing else, he frees up guys like McDonland and Jones. He is the David Neitz of our midfield, in the sense that even when he doesn't get 20+ possessions and 10 clearances, his presence alone lifts the side's performance. In short, he's carrying the expectations of the entire MFC on his shoulders and they must be getting sore.

1- Warnock has been playing well in the VFL this year, and he showed a bit when given a run earlier in the year (ahead of Bizzell in case you forgot). We promoted him off the rookie list for a reason. 2- CJ too has been playing very well at Sandy all year, and deserves an opportunity to show us whether or not he can make it at senior level. If he does nothing to impress by the end of the season, then trade him, don't die wondering. 3- I'm not alone with my praise of Bell. He's been our most consistent defender this year. 4- I never said they weren't playing the kids, they are. But the bottom line is, will Brown or Ward or Bizzell be around when we win a premiership, or more to the point, could they help us win a premiership (Neita, Junior, White etc.. certainly can/will)? If the answer is no, than I'm sorry but I can't get excited by their performances, not when we're second last. I thought Brown was appaling last week and deserved to be dropped, but as I noted before, he did very little wrong today. Ward did a great job on a very dangerous Betts, and his pace is something we sadly lack. Bizzell was Bizzell, did nothing extraodinary, nothing shockingly bad either. He got beaten by his opponents one on one, but came into his own when each team had a loose player in their defensive 50.

Predictable answer. Not everything was Daniher's fault. We played very well while Bizzell wasn't in the side, and nobody was complaining then. Show me your best 22 and how Bizzell fits in there.

Is he really? Who's in your best 22 then, and if he is in our best 22, when didn't he play finals in 2005 when he was fit? And why wasn't he playing in Round 1 when we had a full list available?