deejammin'

Maybe Craig built them to this point and Sanderson and co. are reaping the benefits whilst Craig and Neeld at Melbourne are suffering under the pathetic efforts of their forebears

I would maintain that this was one of the more blatant instances of tanking in the modern era that has gone largely overlooked due to their being in Perth.

They lost to Sydney there last year and could easily have been beaten down there by Richmond this season, your point is good and well taken but get your facts straight

Well here we are, 2012. I've held off posting so far this year, partly due to dissappointment and having nothing to say but also as I thought I should wait and see what Neeld seemed to be doing to change a dissappointing Bailey rebuild. Here's my assessment thus far, until this week we had done just as Neeld said we would, we had improved from the week before, while Brisbane and Richmond were incredibly bad performances (far below an acceptable standard for an afl club) the performances have improved every week in terms of structure and effort. Today was the first time we took a step backwards, while I am aware Geelong is a quality unit there was very little spark in the team today, we never really looked in the contest as we had in the weeks before and never looked like winning. Ultimately we are a very bad side (no suprises there) Every time we looked like getting back into the game we would make critical errors going forward and our ability to cover Geelong's run, spread and marks inside the forward line (shameful) and realistically, had Selwood, Lonergan, Bartel all played full matches, and Geelong not looked like it was doing a training run 100 points would not have been out of the question. Very dissapointing. Also Howe needs to learn to kick from a set shot, he has now missed relatively simple set shots in every game the last 3 weeks. And while Cale has shown alot the last two weeks he did create two bad turnovers at pivotal moments, also Tom Mcdonald, while showing improvement has moments where he is a liability in traffic. Obviously Neeld will need far more than 6 weeks and I am patient, but to this point of the season I preferred the rollercoaster, at least there were ups!

Damn this week has made the above post seem outdated, anyway, BUMP!!!!!!!! Finish it rpfc

Only Sydney people think there is a 'rivalry' Melbourne people know that there is no competition.

I think he's done a fair bit of tossing....

RPFC this has been a fantastic thread and should continue. I am starting to feel optimistic about next year (maybe because I know I won't have to watch the dees serve up that garbage for 6 months)but I think we performed so far below what was expected for the majority of this year it will be hard to get worse.... In which case we should be improving(praying for a draw which sees us play Gold Coast and GWS twice each!) Overly optimistic and out of character for me but I think this thread should continue, if only to dash my hopes for improvement!

*BUMP* Whats the damage RPFC??

Many of those potting Ross Lyon were screaming out for Bailey to come up with 'tactics and a gameplan', Ross Lyon is a brilliant tactical coach, he invented the press, had a team that had a fairly ordinary backline undefeated for almost 20 games in a row and lost a close Grand Final to one of the greatest teams of all time in Geelong.... I think that is a fair bit better than anything else we can get, I don't think we can get Malthouse, and many say the same things about him having a great list and facility winning him premierships, also those claiming Roos had Lyon riding on his coattails should look at the games in which a Lyon coached St Kilda pulverised a Roos coached Sydney... Lyon is head and shoulders above anything we have had for a looong while... get him!!!!!!!

Thanks for putting them up rpfc..not happy reading, but I think it confirms a few things that a nicer win loss column than last year was glossing over. The gap seems to be getting bigger between us and the top sides and while this was a development year I would have thought this would be the area in which we would have been hoping for the most development. Contesting, Winning Quarters and providing more Consistancy throughout all games were always Bailey's key indicators and these statistics are fairly damning. Also any half decent side can beat up on weaker teams, but only those who truly have the potential to go all the way compete well against the contenders, and this is where we needed to improve this year and will be looking for next year. The interesting thing is that the KPI's have pointed to one outcome whilst it is possible the win loss column would paint a more favourable picture, seems this thread figures more in Bailey's demise than those who were screaming for a win/loss goal (like me) would have thought at the start of the season. In fact I think it would be possible that had we had the same win loss ratio but had put in tighter games against the top 5 sides Bailey would be looking at a 2 year contract extension. Keep em coming rpfc....

We have gone backwards in a huge way on last year. I will not count wins over Gold Coast as improvement, so therefor if we are lucky the best we will do is win the same as last year. Also whereas last year we got close to the top 4 teams on 3 occasions (Collingwood x 2 and Western Bulldogs) this year the top sides have pulverised us in some of the most embarrasing performances I have ever witnessed. We lost to the usual suspects in North, haven't performed at Etihad, have lost to almost all of the middle of the road sides and have beaten up on the worst, if our team had a draw similar to Essendon or North we would have struggled to win more than 6 games....

Hey Rpfc, has your exel been fixed in order to get the stats up, it would be great to see them

Umm, HO if you are suggesting that its the all the fault of the same supporters who have been following the club for the past 50 years you are sorely mistaken. Supporters come and go too; you are aware people die, change teams and give up on football? I would also wager that many current Members were born recently, and if you suggest it is hereditary I would suggest you look at how many supporters families weren't even Dees supporters, I would be one of those, blaming the fans is hilarious.... I'm sure all those Kangas fans were pushing Carey and co. along in the 90s, then dropped off the last couple of years, get your hand off it. I think the biggest problem a supporter base can have is to eat their own, and this would consititute that very idea.

If what you say is true, and the formula for success comes down to the amount of money spent on a footy department and thats the be all and end all, smaller clubs can never compete and will therefor never do better than 32 goal drubbings then I'm not interested in that sport.... I like to believe that when 22 athletes run out on a field with years of training and a hunger and desire anything can happen... If thats not possible bugger it, Collingwood would win every year... If the AFL claims of an even playing field they should cap FD spending. But until that happens you may have a valid point. True footy fans however, would hope that this isn't simply about money, but if that is truly all it boils down to, I won't be watching anymore...

BUMP OP Spot on, time really flew...

Sure, then put Ox, Robbo and Neita in the forward line, Flower and Barassi in the center and Ingerson in the backline. Sure to win the EJ Whitten game...

This kind of thread where comparisons with last year are being touted may be more useful at the end of the season when the whole picture has played out, however assuming we win the ones would should win and lose the ones against more favoured teams then I feel that when comparing this season to the previous one there has been one glaring omission from our analysis: Many are stating that we will have improved this season as we will most likely win 2 more games than last year (10.5 vs 8.5), yet we are ignoring the fact that there was no GCS in the AFL last year. In fact those two extra wins (should they eventuate) will both be over the Gold Coast Suns and while a win is a win and you can only beat who you play on the day, I hardly think beating a new franchise full of kids with no established culture which didn't have a home stadium until mid-season should be the thing we hang our hat on in terms of improvement. I for one think to this point we have gone backwards on last year, here's my comparison for some key performances: *Where last year we smashed Sydney in every key facet, this year Sydney led us for the entire game and it was only 15 minutes of good football that saved Melbourne from a loss. *Last year we played two fine performances against the eventual premiers, first a game we should have won having led all day and a hard fought draw. This year we had one of the most insipid floggings the team has had in a while, despite this being an enormous game with a great build up. *Last year the team got to within 5 points of a Bulldogs outfit that was flying in a tough Friday night game we easily could have won (still not over the pink umpires) this year, in a game that could see this Melbourne team stamp itself as a serious threat to the top 8, coming off 2 fine performances, we were flogged by a Bulldogs team that has been down all year. *Our wins have all been against teams we should be a fair way ahead of the only one close to a suprise was against Essendon, a team that has been up and down and is hard to gauge improvement against. *Last year we were beaten dissapointingly by WC, yet this year we were absolutely demolished in a disgraceful performance. Consider that last year the teams were even at half time before we fell away and compare that to this years effort. The list goes on but I struggle to find an instance in which we have improved on performance from last year, perhaps the first half against Hawthorn in rd 2 but is that really enough for a full season. Yes we have lost some experienced players, but really we should be seeing some improvement in performance, not in a win loss ratio but rather how we compete within games. Ultimately I have to agree with the OP that I am a lot less excited about the future this year than I was last year, and I don't really know whether our list has quite as much upside as people seem to think. I guess time will tell. As I said in the first sentence however I am Optimistic that some good performances in the next 3-6 weeks will show without a doubt some team improvement on last year. GO DEES!!!!!!

Well, as stated by Jonesy, West Coast held the key to the 10.5 sneak in, and in losing to St Kilda tonight have made it nearly impossible. The Dees will now have to beat one of the tougher four games. Can't say I saw St Kilda beating (arguably) the form team of the comp coming tonight...

I have a lot of respect for your views on here RR, but where did the figure of 11 come from? On the predictor I'm having 10 and a half making it by a full game.... Who did you have Essendon or North or St Kilda beating?

We the supporters of this great game and foundation clubs.. NO We the "National" league that thus far has 50% of its teams in Melbourne which wishes to access large advertising dollars up north, yes... I wish they'd gone with the fans and not brought in these soulless corporate clubs which then in turn steal players devastating original clubs supporters leaving an uneven playing field, but hey, money is money...

I have thus far not got involved in talking about the end of season result, but an addiction to the Bailey ladder predictor during bye week has got me interested. All the ways that I have plugged in results, with favourites winning to the end of the season, has Melbourne coming 8th, winning against Port Adelaide twice, Richmond once and the Gold Coast. I acknowledge that on current form anything could happen in the games I have assumed we would win, however it is promising to note that if we win these eminently winable games it seems likely (given my time on the predictor) that we will make the 8, and for my money, we will play the Blues..... Who knows, but a big win this week in Darwin could be the beginning of something special...

I know this will probably be howled down by members far more knowledgable than I, however I personally think Daniher gets a bit too much flack on here. Daniher took us deep into finals twice in his first four years, and the other years whilst bad, weren't nearly the pathetic excuses we have been recieving under Bailey. Now some would say Daniher had better cattle, or that Bailey chose the development approach whilst Daniher took the players he had to another level. What I would say is something I have said already in another thread; There seems to be a general acceptance both at our club and in the footy community in general that this bottom out development track is a workable, smart decision. In my opinion it is as yet unproven. St Kilda and Carlton are the most recent examples, and neither has won a premiership to date, and their periods of improvement have come mainly on the back of the aquisition of Judd for Carlton (very little ground up development there and its worth noting they completely bottomed out far longer than they expected from 02-09) or the new gameplan of Ross Lyon at St Kilda, until which point they had under performed. Teams like Collingwood and Geelong never did the complete bottom out play the youth rebuild that we are attempting, neither came last or tanked and neither cleared out as many senior players in the name of improvement as Melbourne. My point here is that Bailey and Melbourne chose the development approach out of nescessity, that we had very few senior players with workable bodies, and also because it would take the heat off our club at a time when we really needed some support from the Media and the AFL. This was our bed and now we are lying in it, other approaches, such as Daniher's, Worsfold's, Hird's, Thompson' etc. Did not rely on playing our worst and continually excusing unbelievably bad performances for 3 years on the back of a 'development' philosophy. I think we are playing a dangerous game with Bailey as there is no guarentee that his philosophy even works, let alone is the right mindset to impose on our list. I think he should coach out the year, but that serious questions need to be asked both about our direction and about why clubs like West Coast and Essendon are showing so much more than us at this stage. Yes we were injured against Carlton, yes they are a better team as of now, but very little we showed last night led me to believe we are developing a positive mentality or imbuing our players with the skills and football knowledge to gain future success, we basically gave up the game from the start and played to make the margin look not so bad...

Yup, blew it with the politics, always the way...

Sorry mate, I'm a left winger... also not sure about your signature, I think this Club gives me a lot, win lose or draw! It wouldn't be football for me without MFC