nutbean

I have learned the hard lesson - the Scully rule applies. Any player that says that "contract talks are on hold" ( " I want to concentrate on my footy" "I want to see the direction of club" yada yada) is to my mind gone. Saves me the heartache of thinking they might stay and then being disappointed.

I agree with your second statement - I was responding to the poster who suggested that we follow the Hawks who don't develop. No two teams have the same dynamic. As to your first comment, look at your second comment and apply the same logic. Firstly it has taken a while for GC to come good and GWS aren't far behind. They have a prodigious amount of young talent at their disposal and have had to take a different approach because of the amount of kids they have. I do wonder as to the differences in rearing 80% young potential stars mixed with a few more experienced players ( in GC's case - one absolute superstar) as opposed to our younger talent that has been taken into a crap organisation, bereft of leadership and until recently full of lazy older players who hardly set a shining example.

I agree - and smashing down walls doesn't rely on being big or small - muscled up or skinny - it is solely dependent on attitude.Look at Dylan Buckley at Carlton - He would blow over in a strong wind but he has all the attributes of his Dad. He definitely plays more outside than Jimmy but when it is his turn to go - he doesnt hesitate - he just goes.

90% of kids in the draft are skinny. Look at Daniher at Essendon. Look at Buckley at Carlton. There are many good reasons why our draft picks have failed - being skinny isnt one of them.

Sorry Sassy, I've been burned way too often. I will rate Salem when I see him displaying elite skills 30 touches a game with outside polish and inside grunt - until then he is just another youngster that is not in the team. I am a great believer in development and further believe we have failed our youngsters miserably in that area. Once I see a few youngsters come through that showed promise early and then make good on the promise they show, then I will start being more optimistic about the talent we draft.

Dont even know where to start with this post. Most of your arguments have been debunked in this very thread before you posted. - criticise Trengove and Grimes all you like for their obvious flaws - don't add "lack of toughness" though - this is not their problems. - again - looking in the rear vision mirror - Darling over Watts ? Spare me. Please point me to any recruiter in the land who was considering taking a mid teen draft pick over a top 2-3 draft pick - if you seriously could have seen that - please apply for a job as recruiter. - forget development ? seriously ? the amount of "Ready made" footballers who have come in and made instant impacts ? From the 2012 draft Wines made a great impact for the whole year and I thought Vlastuin and Mayes were pretty good. About another half dozen from that draft in the first 3 games of this year have looked good. Thats under 10 from the first 70 picks who are coming into their own 3 games into their second season. You have picked Hawthorn as an example we should follow - their two best picks from the 2012 draft didnt play a game in the seniors last year and there are 2 from the year before who havent play a game yet either ! They are left at BH to "DEVELOP".

I hate posts like these because I am the eternal optimist when it comes to our players. It took me 8 years of grief before I finally waved the white flag on Sylvia. Unfortunately with games like last week, Jack is making it very difficult for me to argue with what you have written.

Thanks for that but where's you spirited defense of Newton as well ?

I was going to training but saw your name here and thought..." I'm not going to give Stuie the sastisfaction..." But I digress....

So you prefer going non mainstream and against conventional wisdom and pump for the likes of Cook, Gysberts and Strauss ? There was a reason that mainstream (everyone) had Toumpas in the top 3 above Wines. At TAC level he was considered the better player. The draft order is not rocket Science - with few exceptions the top 15 players usually go in an order that is equivalent with how they were rated in the TAC. Simply, Toumpas was considered the better footballer than Wines at draft time. Unfortunately, at this stage one has developed quicker and is playing much better football than the other ( and playing in a better team with better players around him). For the likes of Cook Gysberts and Strauss I readily accept that recruiters showed poor judgement and got it horribly wrong. For the like of Toumpas ( besides it being early days and too soon to make judgement) - if Wines continues his meteoric rise and Toumpas never amounts to anything I will say the recruiters made a well considered choice that went horribly wrong.

Harsh - when your put your foot down on the accelerator of your Lada and it doesnt go 160kph what's your plan B to make your Lada go like a ferrari ?

Here is another. Was listening to a couple of blokes discussing Essendon. When one said to the other how he could reach the conclusions he did he said. " if one person tells you that you are a horse you can dismiss it. If a second person tells you that you are horse then you may want to consider it. If a third person tells you that you are a horse you better saddle up baby and start eating hay."

He had plenty of friends in that category

I hear your suggestion but thats not the way it works - they do use their own eyes but also take feedback from experts. The problem with TAC and Junior graduates is the recruiters are guessing on how they will progress. The knock on Scully's kicking was always there but everyone was so impressed with his single minded ( bordering on obsessive) approach to his football and becoming the best that these traits overshadowed his kicking deficiencies. I do wonder if Hawks would have picked him. The Hawks have made no secret the number one skill that they require from any recruit is the ability to kick.

Ahh ! I didn't think he should have been dropped as I though there were worse than him. But I am not privvy as to whether or not he is following his coaches instructions or doing his role as asked.

Because no team plays that way. Defensive football dictates that forwards push well up to crowd the space into your opponents forward 50 when they have the ball. Our problem is that when we get the ball we don't push back hard enough or quick enough so it always looks like we don't have a forward line.

We can go down the Richmond path. Delidio is out this week with a "mystery" injury. I referred to my medical text books and couldn't find a references to "mystery" injuries anywhere.

No excuses - we will use the reasons instead - and the reason is that at this stage our players aren't good enough.

so excited so see Riley on the park. He is my new smoky to be a gun ( having said that my previous smoky's have been Newton and Bail so I am not batting too well so far - I still hold out hopes that Howe who I singled out the minute he was drafted will provide my redemption)

yeah they do. Watching the games IMO the following is obvious. We are getting are hands on the ball sufficient number of times but are butchering it and when we get it near or inside 50 we don't have a forward line capable of kicking a score. ( let alone a winning one). What stats never tell you are the quality of the stat. The quality of our entries into the 50 are reflected by our poor scores.

No it wasn't - it was a well considered decision that at this stage hasn't work out.

It's usually the posters that arent right. As to experts arent always right - interesting concept. Do you suggest that recruiters do not talk to other experts watching junior football about prospects ? Take Scully for example - every recruiter interviewed and all expert watchers of junior football had him as the best junior talent in the land. Are your suggesting that this should all be disregarded ? In Scully's case you are right - history now shows that he is not the best player to come out of the draft (at this point in time) but do you completely dismiss these opinions at the time ? The club didnt disregard all good research and expert opinion and went with the top talent in Scully - how did that work out. In Lucas Cook - they did the opposite - took a player well before his popular rating.

Gentleman - the internet remembers everything and google is a wonderful thing. Emma Quayle had us taking Toumpas in the 2012 draft. She had us taking Dyson Heppell in 2010 draft with Lucas Cook going at 23 and Jack Darling was not in her top 25.

got that one wrong !

Nope. Showed enough