nutbean

Whilst acceleration can be important it is more than compensated by lateral movement. All those mentioned ( Sidebottom, Dal Santo, Pendlebury) have great lateral movement - evasive skill. Pendlebury in any quarter does't burn off opponents - he evades opponents. There is a major difference.

We are talking about the 260 game, 3 times all Australian Nick Dal Santo ?

You don't think over the course of the journey that Sidebottom, Nicky Dal and Montagna haven't been damaging ? wow !

I think the successor would largely depend on where we are in 3 years time. Assuming Roos goes 3 years and then wants out, if we are well and truly on the path to success then I don't have problem ( and I would suggest the board as well ) with a Roos appointed and trained successor. However if we are still in the fledgling stages of recovery do you think that the board would be comfortable with an untried at the helm, albeit a Roos trained untried ? I would suggest they might think that it is too big a risk to the hints of progress and go with an experienced successful coach. Roos has said he will leave us in a much a better place when he leaves. The place would have to be much better for a board to risk an unproven coach. Postscript - I don't think posters should get too married to the idea of the succession plan. I have seen them in business as well and they are fluid. A successor appointed today for three years time makes the assumption that he is the right person for where we will be in that time in the future. If we are in different position in the future the successor may not be right.

Not sure you how you can make this statement ? Last year - Wines was a ready made player and would have been fantastic at Hawthorn or Geelong and was fantastic at the big improvers Port Adelaide. So last year -a first year player coming to a club like ours that stunk it up big time that had no discernable plan or system, had most players well down on form for the whole year and played with little spirit ? How do you think he would have gone. ( rhetorical question as again it is speculating)

It appears you have thrown down the challenge - I need to find that fine balance of finding a word that has slipped through your net but wont get me banned.... nah....talk to most posters on here and they will have had nothing altered, censored or removed. Keep respectful and non abusive and then censorship is a non issue.

That was going to be part of my response. We have to unfortunately harshly judge what has transpired previously. We have had 7 years of misery but the worse part of that is since that time we haven't had building blocks to continue forward. We had some glimmer of development when Bailey come on the scene for two years and then went backwards and went even further backwards under Neeld. Roos is starting a rebuild from year one and ground zero. I think it is even worse than that as he has to get some mentally scarred footballer back to ground zero.

A little man with an enormous bonce

There are two separate arguments going on here. The only one I want to address is the one on the competence of the sports medico's. Firstly on preseason loading - players are on individually tailored programs and most have got through unscathed - players like Tyson who was injured coming to us has a program which has seen him fit for round one. Aiden Riley who had a severely broken leg is spot on track to play when advised - so are the medico's selectively incompetent ?. As to when a player gets injured - we have zero insight into the nature of the players injuries and the treatment and rehab plans given to the players - how on earth is anyone in a position to make a call on their competency ??? All we know anecdotally is that players recover at differing rates - some injuries heal quickly and others just linger forever ( Junior McDonalds 3 week hamstring that lasted 8 weeks). That's the reality. I get the frustration - what I don't get is lack of logic applied to what has transpired.

When you can [censored] the pebble from my hand, grasshopper. Edit - OMG ! look at the word it censored ! It says a lot about the people who set up the filter !!! this has made my day !!

Soooo..7 years on the bottom is the reason are talls are injured without even playing a game. Exactly which part of Webbers explanation do you disagree with ? Please also post any qualifications you may have in the medical field and insight into the actual medical condition of the injuries players that will lend weight to your assertion of mismanagement. BB's point is not about the injuries per se but the communication and estimates given. I do understand that there have been some puzzling pieces of information regarding Hogans injury and others - but as far as I am concerned the injuries are what the injuries are. Misson has the reputation of being one of the best in his field - so to claim he has mismanaged is a pretty big ( and completely unsubstantiated) assertion. I also repeat John Longmire's approach when asked about Kurt Tippetts tendonitis - " I am reluctant to give a timeframe" - not sure which is worse - being given timeframes thats are fluid or not being given any information at all.

What's going on ? We need to take a leaf out of John Longmire's book - re Kurt Tippett and his knee tendonitis and when he will return. "I am reluctant to put a time frame on it". Much better - tell the members absolutely nothing.

If you want to be entirely accurate - this year our biggest problem is not getting smashed in the middle and clearances - or even getting our hands on the ball - it is our complete inability to deliver a football with precision. You would therefore have to draw the assumption that if Roos was drafting right now he would rate receiving the ball and delivering over getting in and under and getting the ball out. Therefore if you were looking at both Toumpas and Wines without the benefit of one and a bit seasons viewing they would still would pump for Toumpas. ( edit - I know that Salem has the reputation of being hard at it - but he does not have the reputation as a "clearance" machine - as an in and under player - what does that tell you about Roo's and Vineys thinking ?) Besides Toumpas having limited preseason last year the biggest point being missed is any player is going to perform better when they are placed in a team that is well drilled and well structured. We expected a Toumpas, a first year player, to thrive last year in team that had no direction, no gameplan, no structure, no heart and no desire. The best analogy I can draw for the likes of WYL and PF is taking Vettel and putting him behind the wheel of a leyland P76 and comparing him to Hamilton behind the wheel of Ferrari and bemoaning what a much better driver Hamilton is. I have watched Ricky Petterd for the Tigers and although he still kicks helicopters he is playing much more consistent football for the Tigers than he played for us. There is a reason for that. He is in a better TEAM, he is given a task/role and he has a fair understanding of not only what he needs to do but what he teammates around him will do.

did you notice that 75% of our score was kicked on him ?

Lots of bemoaning about our draft picks is hindsight without reference to the muckhole they were recruited into. Cook is not hindsight - there is enough stuff on him predraft to make the assessment that there were way better picks at no 8

Then you should have a job as a recruiter and you would be a gun at it because Sylvia was not a smoky at pick 3 - the experts had him rated that highly. The point I am trying to illustrate is that I am more than happy to slam the recruiting of Cook at number 8. Read back on most of the "expert watchers" said and you will see stuff written like - a little slow for someone his size, inconsistant hands in marking, doesn't get full hands extension. I looked up the stuff on him at the time of drafting and thought that the MFC must know something that the so called "Experts" don't. Apparently we didnt ! I refer to my other post - we have had way too many failures of highly touted picks for me to believe it is purely our recruiting - it's what happens to them the minute they get into the MFC system.

agree 100%. And I will not defend the drivel which was served up and some of the half hearted efforts. HOWEVER - you cannot improve if you can't get the ball in your hands. To some extent that is one of last years problems that has somewhat been fixed. Roos has hit it on the head where he says he has to separate not having a forward line and some of the errors that were evident on Sunday.

Sylvia it is - circa 2003 written by Dominic Milesi who is now an assistant recruiting officer at Collingwood. If you want to have more fun - go back and read about our failed picks and see what the "experts" say about them. (I will say that Cook sounded iffy prior to the draft) Anybody and I mean anybody that says we should not have taken Scully as our first pick after reading every assessment of him is in lala land.

There was improvement. Last year we never got near the ball - got creamed in the possession and they walked around us like we were standing still. Sunday we got lots of the ball and then gave it up to the eagles and they walked around us like we were standing still. In all seriousness - we stunk it up big time on Sunday - but last year we didn't get the ball at all so we didn't fumble it or turn it over. So far this year we are horrific ball butcherers, we are fumblers and poor executors. But as opposed to last year at least Roo's doesn't have to teach them how to actually get a football. He just has the monumental task of teaching them what to do when they have it in their hands.

I spat my coffee on the desk - please use Camerons first name as well ( Jeremy) as I read the above as Cameron Pederson is one of the most dangerous forwards in the league.

keep your powder dry - someone will post his name shortly - I'm sure.

I have stated elsewhere that recruiters are damned when they follow conventional wisdom and pick a player in the draft position they were rated ( Scully Trengove) and they turn out to be a bust and likewise damned if they pick a smokie ( Cook) who also fails. Here is a report from someone who works in the recruiting department at Collingwood. We should seriously draft this boy !!!!! Now here is one exciting prospect. This boy will be a star at AFL level. The youngster was outstanding last year for Bendigo, Victoria Country and Bendigo Secondary College. He is basically a barrel-chested midfielder who can do everything, but just as impressive is he ability to go forward, be the go-to man and dominate. He could play anywhere from centre to a flank to forward pocket at AFL level no worries at all. It was well known that he carried osteitis pubis for a lot of the year, and this meant he spent perhaps more time up forward than he would have liked. Despite this, he still had the ability to win games on his own. He is one of those players who will see a game isn't going the way he likes and will just take it by the scruff of the neck and drag his way. His kicking is excellent. Can kick a long way, and is very accurate with the weighting of his passes. Not afraid to use his left, which is adequate. Tends to prefer to dispose by foot than hand, and if I did have a query it is his handballing, can miss targets. His marking ability for his size is simply incredible. He had the highest vertical leap of ANY player at draft camp. The guy is capable of winning the car one year, that's how good a grab he is. Is also unbelievably strong in the hips - he loves to work one-on-one with someone in a marking contest, keeps his feet really well. Does all the team things and is hard at the footy - 111 tackles including 13 in a game give you some idea of his work ethic. He is super competitive and even when he is struggling with injury still gives his all. He is usually poised and calm in traffic as well. The list of achievements as long as your arm gives you some idea how good he was last year. I saw him play a full game in the midfield early in the year and he was awesome. I think once he gets over his OP he will be a superb player. Definite top 5 selection for mine.

What exactly did every expert in the footballing world see at TAC level with the likes of Toumpas, Morton, Scully, Trengove ....etc etc. It was not just our recruiters who saw it but go and read everything said about these boys from people who are paid to watch the TAC/Junior football and/or report on it. It is like every highly rated recruit we have drafted has left all talent, speed, skill and willingness to develop at the front door of the MFC the minute they were invited in. The common link is not who is being invited through the door but what's awaits behind the door itself.

You missed the whole point of the post. We have recruited following "experts and current wisdom" and we have recruited "speculatively" - neither have worked for us. To my mind there has always been a common ingredient in all these failed recipes. In the main it isn't the recruiters or the recruits - it is the club they have come they have come into which has failed miserably in terms of a strong culture, an environment to succeed, and an ability to develop players. When Roos say that "the players are better than they think are" ? What do you think he means ?

That's how fragile confidence and resilience in this team is.