The Jacks

Yeah, not sure why I even go to the games?

But our home jumper doesn't clash with any of those teams. If we had two jumpers (normal and 'reverse'), three shorts (blue, red and white), and two socks (red and blue) we wouldn't have a problem.

Why would we need a second "barstardisation"?

Last time I checked this is a forum for supporters of the Melbourne Football Club. Please forgive my bias to the club and not giving a [censored] about how many ANZAC day games, friday night games or cricket games you go to. Not telling you how to spend your money, not telling you whether you get value for money out your MCC membership. Just saying that I've got no time for the Melbourne "supporters" that put their money into their MCC membership and give nothing and do nothing for the club.

Daisy Cutters is the kind of thing I've been asking for a while. Having to wear white shorts when playing as the 'away' team, regardless of what the 'home' team is wearing makes absolutely no sense. I feel the same way about having to wear a predominantly white clash jumper. Surely teams can wear their home jumper (and shorts and socks) in away games if there is no clash with the 'home' team. For games where the 'away' team has a clash with the 'home' team, surely they can design a uniform that is designed not to clash with those 'home' teams. Not sure what the jumper being white has to do with anything. Who do we clash with, even "loose" clashes? Adelaide - could easily wear daisycutters "reverse", mainly red jumper with mainly red shorts & sock Brisbane - I think our home uniform is fine, maybe wear different socks if they clash with Brisbane's (not sure if they do) Carlton - Reverse uniform Essendon - reverse uniform Fremantle - reverse uniform Bulldogs - reverse uniform Richmond - white shorts and we're fine West Coast - reverse uniform That's fine isn't it? Richmond

So anyone know what the rules are here? What happens if Jack Viney has some severe injury which either prevents him from playing or doesn't make him as desirable a draft pick? What if he "goes off the rails" or some other unlikely event means either we don't want him anymore or he doesn't want to play for us? I obviously hope none of that happens, but surely nothing is signed that can't be undone?

I still don't get how this can be announced already - not that I'm complaining. Surely neither player not club are "locked" into this until he is actually drafted?

Unfortunately, what the CEO thinks is a cool announcement for the organisation he works for is not necessarily everyone else's idea of cool.

Can someone explain "the Jack Viney" situation to me? How would we be in a position to announce anything with regards to him playing for Melbourne?

Good reports there. Like them a lot. Glad to hear the positives, but also the perceived negatives. Bhima's description of Trengove was very interesting. I obviously have done nothing close to a pre-season like these guys will be doing, but I can say that when you're not used to doing heavy weights on your legs, it can be hard work running, especially doing the kind of running he will be asked to do. I'm not surprised if his legs feel VERY HEAVY and it is hard to get going from a standing start. Like you said, Trengove should get used to it and I'm sure it will hold him in good stead for this season and future pre-seasons/seasons. A comparison with Scully is interesting. Just thinking of the last game of the season against North, Scully looked like he was flying and could go for another 10 weeks at the same pace. trengove looked like he was looking forward to the off-season. Not having a go at his effort, but he looked like a player struggling at the end of his first season (common and understanable). I'm sure trengove will come good, but Scully just sounds / looks out of this world. I can't wait to see him with a pre-season under his belt (imagine him in a few years!). As for Watts, I get the feeling we will see more great good, positive moments from him this year, but we still won't get the consistent performances from him. I reckon he will be like that for next year and probably two years after that. To the point where the rest of the footy world will probably start to forget about him. Then he will slowly creep up on them all and end up being the player that those with a bit of forsight can see he will become. As for the little injuries (I hope that's all it is) to Davey and Chip, I'm sure it's just regular stuff that often goes on and isn't a concern. They're not silly and won't push them on a dodgy ankle/knee during pre-season.

I think we're missing one "big" tall to play as a permanent forward. It's someone that isn't necessarily the main inside 50 target, but is a big, strong mark and demands enough attention that he attracts a big defender wherever he goes. If we have that, plus Watts, Petterd and Jurrah from 80-odd metres out all the way to the goal-square we're looking pretty good, aren't we? The problem is, I think we're a way off this big target man. While Jurrah and Petterd (plus Green for another year or two) have shown they can kick multiple goals, we don't have anyone that has shown they can play 10-15 consistent goal-kicking games in a row. That makes our forward line unreliable. Potentially potent, but not consistently damaging. We also don't have a crumbing, forward pressure small who has been able to stand up consistently. I'm not too worried that one or two out of Aussie, Binell, Maric, Nail, Jetta could do it, but we need someone hitting form and holding their spot in the team to do it well Another point to note is that I think we don't get enough inside 50s (don't have the stats on me but remember us not being too high on the list). Our forward line is actually quite efficient, i would guess, in terms of turning our genuine scoring opportunities into goals. Hopefully our maturing midfield (and some improved run out of the back half) will imrpove this.

[censored] this is funny. By the way, if no one gets it 100% right (which they won't), how do you decide who is "closest to the pin"?

I'm asking where the people on Demonland, Demonology or any other footy forum who claim to know something about a 16, 17 or 18 year old "footballer" get their information from, how they form their opinon on these guys. I would usually try to avoid using any argument that says I know more (or less) about footy or am right (or wrong) in a particular argument only because I have seen more (or less) games of football. But in this case, I'd take anyone's opinion on why any of these draft prospects are good or not so good with a couple of kilos of salt, because I question how many times they've seen them play (if at all).

Not sure what you're talking about now. I have no idea who you are. I'm not old enough to have been a member for 45 years.

Got no time for Melbourne supporting MCC members who give nothing to MFC

Just trying to avoid the "I've been a member for 45 years so I think I know what I'm talking about" argument.

How do so many of you have any clue about these draft prospects? This is not a personal dig at anyone in particular, I just don't understand how you come to your (often strong) opinions on these guys. Watching a lot of footy doesn't make you understand the game any more or less or make your opinion more or less valid. But how often have you seen these guys play (in the flesh, on a dodgy highlights video, or otherwise)? I'm grateful for the information I have access to on this site and via it's users. There are some great posters and plenty with valuable information. But when talking about these youngsters, I find it hard to believe that so many of you genuinely have an insight into their game's and why they would or wouldn't be a good pick up on draft day.

Thanks dandeeman and High Tower

This is a genuine question and I in no way mean any disrespect to anyone by asking it. I am not insinuating anything or accusing anyone of anything, just asking because I want to know the answer ... What is this money going towards? What will be done with the money?

Jamar is a good ruckman. He gives us so much in a crucial position on the field. He contests, can give us a chance to win the clearances more often than not. He can match it with any ruckman in the league and can beat all of them on his day. We have no reliable back up option in the ruck, and this makes Jamar even more important to the team, arguably the team's most important player. Jamar has improved massively, going from a player that had to cop a huge amount of flak to being universally admired by his team's supporters. But I think his one good season has many Melbourne fans overrating his ability. Jamar is a crucial player, one we can't do without, but that doesn't make him a match winner, a dominant player at AFL level, or a star who can pull his side across the line. He is crucial in plenty of games we win, but I just don't view him to be as good a footballer as many other Demon fans do. Hence I think he is overrated. The All-Australian selection plays a big part here. There is a very strong argument that Jamar was the second best ruckman during the 2010 home & away season. As strong is the argument that there should be two ruckman in the All-Australian team. But I'd say Darren Jolly is a better footballer than Jamar and was probably a very close third int erms of the best ruckman during the home & away season. Jolly started slowly and picked his form up as the year went on, and he ended up playing some huge games late in the year, and was influential in the finals. The finals. Grand finals. If you want to use Jamar's All-Australian selection as evidence of his standing in the game, I'd firstly argue that Jolly had a better year than Jamar. Rounds 1-22, Jamar was better. Over the entire year, Jolly was better. While on one hand you can't hold the fact that Jamar didn't play finals against him, on the other you can't ignore the fact that Jolly had a good finals series and helped his side win a flag. In any case, Jolly and Sandilands are far better footballers than Jamar. If Jamar can match the output and influence he had in 2010 again in 2011 and again in 2012 and perhaps once more int he next five years, then he will be regarded as highly as Jolly & Sandilands. Until then, I feel like Jamar is regarded as an equal of these two when he doesn't have the form or history to back that up. And that's just using two ruckman as examples. They're all footballers, and Jolly & Sandilands are the only two ruckman I'd regard as great footballers. Sandilands is the only one who would fall in the top 20 or 30 players in the league. Anyway, I'm also adding Davey to the list of underrated players, as I'm not sure Melbourne fans appreciate just how, good his skills are, how clever a player he is, and how important he is for our success (as important as Jamar). Davey rarely makes a skill error and is probably the only player that can get the ball and leave me with not a worry int he world ... he will make the right decision and deliver the ball just as he wanted to.

Why would Jamar wish to be overrated?

Either, mate. I prefer it when people say what they think as opposed to pressing me for evidence to back up my opinion. It's an opinion, we disagree, we argue, it's what happens, it's why we're here.

"Nearly a premiership ruckman"!!!

I agree with that. I'd say we rate hima round the same level. I can tell that we are gonna be friends!

I agree with everything you've said about Jamar, and really like what he brings to the team. He is one of, if not the most, important player(s) in the team. But I think that is more to do with what we don't have in terms of experienced rucks who can get the job done, as opposed to Jamar being a dominant, great AFL player. I just don't rate him as highly as most Melbourne fans do. That doesn't mean I don't think he is vital to our success. It was my view of Jamar that prompted me to start this topic. The responses I'm getting show me that I am right in thinking that Jamar is overrated. I'm not saying you are all wrong, I'm just saying you rate him a lot higher than I do.