The Jacks

I'm gonna put my neck out here and say that every club, including Gold Coast and Western Sydney, could win the flag by 2019 ... We might not have one current player still playing for us in 2019.

I've given a little description of what I think of Jamar's ability as a player. If everyone (or five people) on this site gave their own little description, my guess is that they would rate him higher than I do. That would support my belief that he is overrated. I've discussed Jamar with other Melbourne fans and I think they too overrate him. These discussions did not happen online, they were not recorded, so I cannot provide you with hard evidence of them ever taking place. But that is not the point I'm making. In case I haven't made it clear, most Melbourne fans rate Jamar as a better footballer than I do - that's why I think he is overrated.

I can name them, but I don't think you will know them ... As for Jamar, I understand not many on this site will share my view, but that doesn't change anything. I agree with his selection in the AA team, but being the 2nd best ruckman in the league doesn't mean he's not overrated. An AA can be overrated. So can a brownlow medalist. So can anyone.

Anyone else willing to admit they've never seen the guy play?

Underrated Jared Rivers - Not universally underrated by Demon fans, but massively underrated in terms of his importance to the team by a little too many of us for my liking. We need him in form and fit to be a top side. Brent Moloney - Besides being a favourite of mine, we really don't have another proven, tough, inside midfielder than can stand up to pressure, and every side need those sorts of blokes. Cameron Bruce - Not over his entire career, but this season. He doesn't hit every target, he can look slow, but he has so much experience and it shows in most contests, in his reading of the play, and when we're really under pressure. We're an inexperienced team and he is a real leader, and under appreciated. Nathan Jones - He's no world beater and never will be. But few fight for the cause and get more out of themselves than Jones. He has deficiencies, especially his disposal and decision-making (at times), and he might not be guaranteed a game if everyone's fit, but that doesn't make him as bad as people make out. On plenty of occasions he is the one lifting his intensity and doing some crucial things when we're really under the pump. The kind of things that go unnoticed but can keep you in the game when it really matters. We need depth, especially in midfield, and I feel he is under-appreciated. Overrated Mark Jamar - Is a decent ruckman, but that's it. He's vitally important to us as we have no one else that can do the job adequately and our midfield is pretty inexperienced and a little undersized. I know this contradicts what I've said about Rivers, but being important isn't the same as being great. He "may" have been the second best ruckman in 2010, but again, that doesn't make him a great footballer at the top level. I still love him and appreciate what he does, just think he's overrated by plenty. Melbourne's premiership chances - I know this is supposed to be players only, but I couldn't resist. We're building a great side, and everything about the club is on the up and we are rightly positive about our chances in the next five years or so. But no matter how well prepared we are, how much we improve, so much has to go right to win a flag. Some talk about a flag as a given, as if it's just going to happen at some stage in the next five years.

It's not a [censored] mystery, they just haven't told us what's going on. Why should the club or the player conduct contract negotiations in public or even feel an obligation to let anyone other than the parties immediately involved know what is going on? I'm happy to find out what happens when it's all been signed off. Until then nothing is set in stone anyway. Maybe Bruce is on holidays and is waiting until he gets back to sort it out. Maybe it's already been sorted out and will be signed off on shortly and the cluba nd player are holding off until then. Maybe Bruce actually moved to Cuba in January 2009 and it's been a stunt double that has been playing in his place and that's why his disposal has apparently gone downhill.

Anyone know what he likes to eat when he gets home from school?

I don't turn it into a negative about the rest of the blokes. I would say Shaun of The Dead (Jordie) gives more than just about anyone else. It's pretty plain and clear to see, I'd say. McKenzie is a seriously good tackler, but he doesn't have the skill of natural ability of plenty of others who could bring their game up another level if they applied themselves with the same level of intensity and effort. He just loves hunting for those zombies! As for Brenten Mahlony, I'm sorry about the spelling.

I don't understand what you're saying? I think it's fine if it's nice & big & clear. If one emblem / logo / crest is going to be used on everything. in all sizes, in all situations, it's a bit [censored].

I couldn't watch this for more than about 5 mins at a time, it was seriously frustrating. Not sure if it was the rules, the umpires interpretation of the rules, or the fact that we're miles better than the Irish and it's only our unfamiliarity with the ball and these rules that keeps it relatively close. I would find a Ireland v Australia Gaelic football game (in Australia) and a Australian Rules game (in Ireland) far more interesting than this weird version of the game. In fact, Victoria v South Australia or Western Australia would be fine by me.

Maloney - tough, hard, good when it's tight in close and the pressure's on. Love how he just runs through blokes like they're not there. We need more like him. Davey - our most skillful player by that far it's not even up for debate. We need three or four of him. McKenzie - just loves a tackle and having a go. Love this kind of player. Frawley - love a reliable key backman that actually has a bit of skill and run in him and can start our attacks. Watts - because I appreciate skill and the finer things is the game, and this guy has it... and I love defending an up and coming star and being proven right. Pretty Sure Grimes will get in there when he puts a full season together. Seems to never lose a one-on-one contest, nothing gets past him and he has the skills to set us up going forward. Anyone with a bottom five should just [censored] off and not bother, we don't need you.

Wow, he dares to disagree with the Demonland masses. This guy has balls. Soon he'll be telling us we're not guaranteed to make the finals next year and the 2013 flag is not 'in the bag'. I actually agree with the original post, but aren't that fussed. It's ok, but probably has a little too much going on. I like what the club have done on the website, going to the trouble of using past and current Melbourne heores to explain the meaning and history behind everything on there. It might work in high resolution as a full sized screen saver on your computer, but on a playing jumper, merchandise or as a link to the club's website on the AFL site, there's just too much crammed in there.

Neita would be handy in the forwardline, wouldn't he?

What an entertainer. Makes Buddy Franklin look average. Not sure about Jimi Hendrix comparison, though. Favourite moments are his sealer against the Eagles at the 'G and his kiss on his brother's cheek, that goal he hacked outta mid-air, countless bombs from the boundary line after heated "discussion" with the crowd in the front row, and the day he kicked something rediculous like 4.11 (I'm sure I'm it wasn't as bad as that, but that's how I remember it). Was genuinely one of the few guys you could say you especially came to watch. The comparison (in general terms) with Fevola is a good one. Not many players that can entertain like he could around anymore.

Once I crack open a few beers this could be better than the normal Friday arvo at work

This gets better, it seems I now have an "agenda".

You guys are funny

The point I'm trying to make is it seems odd to speculate on the footballing ability of a 16 year old you have never seen play with other grown men (or otherwise) who also have not seen the kid play. The other point is, if you have made the effort to go and watch some of these kids play and that is not part of your job description I find that a little sick.

Any of you actually seen the kid play a game of footy? Firstly, it's a bit sick if you have. Secondly, what shite are you talking if you haven't? Same goes for all of the other info we get from all of you on draft prospects

I've heard and witnessed some embarassing moments from Melbourne supporters ... and this thread is up there with the worst

dee-luded just "uninvited" himself to my 2013 premiership party

I think we agree on Jamar and ruckman in the league in general...? As for full-backs, I'd say they are (and have the potential to be) as influential as they ever have been. Lake and Scarlett and two great examples, and Fletcher before them. Chip is in that mould too and could be a force to be reckoned with in the next 5 years if he keeps improving.

I'd like to think it's never as bad as it seems, but it's also never as good as it seems. You've overrated us in a few areas, particularly ruck (read "Jamar is overrated"), midfield and forwardline. I love that Jamar had a great year in 2010. He has really grown and matured as a footballer and you could say that he has mastered the art of ruck work. By all reports he puts a lot of work into this side of his game, even studying his opponents and coming up with a plan to beat each and every one of them. But I wouldn't say he is a dominant AFL footballer. I'm not having a go at him, not suggesting he's not good enough, not suggesting he's he is anything but a vital player for us. I'm just saying the second best ruckman in the league last year was probably outside of the top 50 influential players in the league (greena nd Frawle, however, were well and truley up there). Our midfield is coming along very nicely, but I'm not sure it's at an 8/10 yet. At the moment we don't have a top 5-10, "elite" midfielder (Scully's a chance to be one). We have a few that are good enough to make us really go places (Maloney, Sylvia, Davey), but the rest need to come along a bit, and we need the depth to really improve on top of that. We have the makings of a great forwardline, and when we're on, it is a great, diverse group, very tough to match up with. But even using just 2010 as an example, we only have one player we can rely on, and that's Green. We need Jurrah's best to happen every other week as opposed to one in three or four, and we need a full year from Petterd like he started 2010. Watts needs time, Dunn looked good in the second half of 2010, Bate looks good three or four times a year, Aussie looks alright, Bennell can play there. Plenty of options, but no where near consistent enough. A semi-reliable contested marker who can kick a goal a game would be a god send just to make do while everyone makes what we think will be natural progress. The ingridients for a great team are there and a lot of the key pieces are already in place (with steady improvement to hopefully come). But we're at least three solid seasons away from being any chance at a flag. That's right, we won't win the 2013 flag. Two betweem 2014-2017 will be fine with me!

The dig at "soccer" aside, that is the point I'm making about "cup" competitions with a final / finals deciding the winner. The best team on the day wins, not the best team over the previous 6 months (or even the previous 6 days). Back to Rooke, I agree about the facial hair, need more of it. And no, Dunn's dirty mo does not count. Maybe when he grows up he'll be able to grow a real one.

People can be unfairly harsh on coaches, players and other senior staff involved at AFL clubs when only a premiership = success. It's the ultimate aim, it's what you play for. Everyone knows you have to be fit, in form and get the job done on that last Saturday day in September (first Saturday in October, whatever), otherwise the year essentially amounts to nothing. But it takes so much effort and planning and getting a hell of a lot of decisions right to be as good a team as Geelong have been for this long. Let's not forget they were in the finals during the Lions' run of flags, even getting close in a prelim (2005?). They then had a bad year in 2006. Came back in 2007 and tore everyone apart and were clearly the best side in the comp by a long, long way. They were the best or second best team for the best part of the next three seasons. That's a long time at the "top" in anyone's book. What I'm getting at is, they did almost everything right as a club to be a dominant club. No matter what you do, you can have an off day, quarter, even five minutes in ONE game in September and it costs you "success". Even in 2007, Geelong were only a kick or two away from not even making the grand final against a Collingwood side that eventually matured together and learned how to beat the Cats in 2010. The Saints were up there in 2004 and 2005 ... and if you want to talk about premiership windows, their window has been open since then. But a few things go wrong on one of those big days/nights in September and you blow it. The Saints have easily been one of the most successful clubs (not teams) of the decade (ok 2001-2010), but have no on field success to show for it. They've been "up" for a long time after being down for a while, getting all the concessions that go with that, but have no on-field "success". Over a soccer league season, when you play everyone home and away, there can be no excuses, no debate, no doubting who the best team and deserved champions are. The league table doesn't lie. There's so much less certainty in a cup competition, in a finals format... and that's part of what we love, isn't it? Not sure what my real point is... Maybe it's that all those with their future's planned out, making sure they're free for the first week of the finals next year, the prelim finals in 2012 and the grand final in 2013 might want to realise that no matter how good we're supposed to be, no matter how good we become... it doesn't always go to plan. Let's hope when we're up and about we get to the odd grand final and win one... that's all you really want, isn't it?