The Jacks

Are you saying Spurs or Melbourne have more fans?

Alright if this is what we're doing 1. Collingwood 2. St. Kilda 3. Fremantle 4. Western Bulldogs 5. Geelong 6. Hawthorn 7. North Melbourne 8. Melbourne 9. Carlton 10. Adelaide 11. Brisbane 12. Sydney 13. Port Adelaide 14. Essendon 15. Richmond 16. West Coast 17. Gold Coast Probably being a bit optimistic... Carlton might nick in and take our spot in the 8

While Davey is certainly rated quite highly, I still think he is most underrated Melbourne player. He is vital to us. he really is the guy about whom I say "I wish we had two or three of him". I'm not sure if it's a specific instruction, but if Davey is anywhere near you you just just give it to him, even under massive pressure in a croweded area, he will, 9 out of 10, get out of trouble and set something up, make us keep the ball. In that regard, he is the exception to the rule, even ifhe's man is right on his hammer, just give him a handball and try to block for him, he'll make something happen. As for Watts, I remember the exact situation! I'm sure the next season or two will see Jack eliminate some of those decision-making errors and even more of the good moments will start to pop up. Improved fitness and body shape/size will also help with that. Eventually it will get to the point that Watts realises he is taller than most, can outrun anyone his size (well pretty much anyone of any size), and he'll start to make a huge impact on games, rather than the odd flash of class.

I appreciate where some fans are coming from on this. A few too many times for my liking Davey has given away 50m penalties or silly free-kicks that aren't even in play when he's been fed up with a player nagging him or bad umpiring decisions. But the number of times Davey does something that only a true on field leader would do far outnumber the above indescretions. So often, pretty much every game, Davey will cut inside through traffic and make something happen. He will take the risk that no one else is willing to take to get us out of trouble and he has the rare skills to execute and finish off his excellent decisions. The flashes of brilliance and magic early in Davey's career as a forward pocket and the stuff he can still pull off blind a few people to the amazing skill and understanding of the game he has. He's not your typical "brave" footballer, but he makes a hell of a lot of brave decisions that need to be made when moving the footy in tight situations, especially tough given the shocking standarad of some fo the teams he's played in recently. There's plenty more off field that make Davey a great potential capatin, but I just wanted to stick up for his "on field" leadership credentials. By the way, the way Jack Watts has the balls to cut in fromt he boundary line and look for the pin point pass in the central corrider in massive traffic and back his skills to pull it off remidns me a little of Davey in that regard. Watts also has some of that Scott Pendlebury / basketball awareness and skill in traffic to avoid opponents, keep his balance, and execute a subtle but viatlly important pass to open up space for team mates and start a scoring chain. Anyway ... Davey for captain, Watts for greatness.

I'd expect us to be better than last season in all categories. A gradual improvement from pretty much everyone, and Jamar, Green, Davey and Chip hopefully holding their stellar form from last season. Some players - like Sylvia, Moloney and Petterd just need to play a full season for us to improve in their parts of the ground/team. Making the finals would be brilliant, but I don't think we'll finsih top, so that is dependant on how other teams do. If the seven players mentioned above do what I just said I'm pretty sure we will make the finals. Probably more improtant than this is seeing improvement and potential in our first, second and third year players. There's no doubt we've got some potential guns, so if at least some of those guys continue to develop and take a step closeer to fulfilling that potential, then it's a good year (along with some of the above). As for injuries, there isn't a whole lot we can do about that (I hope), so no real point talking about it in terms fo pass/fail. Anyway, as a prediction of a ladder position, I'll say 8th with 11 wins.

This article is written by the author of "Inverting the Pyramid", a book I referred to earlier on this thread (well I think it was this thread). http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/dec/23/the-question-football-tactics-develop-decade This paragraph, in particular, was interesting, given the discussion of the evolution of tactics in AFL, "soccer" and other sports (rubgy world cups are mentioned here): To an extent, evolution is a game of cat and mouse: a space opens, it is closed, and so a space opens elsewhere. A rugby writer recently suggested to me that rugby World Cups tend not to produce attacking play because of a natural cycle. After each tournament, he said, law variations are brought in to open the game up, which works for a year or two, but by the time the next tournament comes around, coaches have worked them out and so it becomes more defensive again. It seems to me that, with one or two exceptions – the 1925 change in the offside law, the 1992 outlawing of the backpass and the tackle from behind in response to the sterility of Italia 90 – football is strong enough to generate new ways of attacking on its own without recourse to tinkering with the game's mechanics, but the process of thesis, antithesis, synthesis is the same.

I'll give everyone on here odds of $10,000,000 on Jamar right now. Minimum bet is $100.

Oh yeah, as for whipping boys ... support the players or get (censored). Ever considered how much of a lift it would be for someone like Newton, Miller or Bate if 30,000 Demon fans got behind them, shouted their name in a positive way and encouraged their every move? That's support.

Has it not dawned on some of you that for all the games "we should have won", there are just as many that we did win where supporters of the team we beat thought they "should have won"? What about the above scenario for games not involving Melbourne? Whilst we don't play everyone home and away in the same season, the ladder will always tell only some of the story. But the part of the story it tells is a pretty big part.

Davey was the only current player involved in the video explaining the new Melbourne emblem.

I'd say Sylvia has a brownlow in him. He has the kind of game that when he plays well he gets noticed (and has shown he will poll 3 voters). He's the kind of guy that could win it if he put 10 great games together in a season. He can do it, but not next year. If there was a market for the 2012 and 2013 brownlow medals I'd be interested to see what odds Sylvia would be. Davey won't win one, but he could easily poll 30-45 votes in the next three seasons (no mean feat if it happens).

Davey for me. The real leaders amongst the players are already doing what they do and that won't change very much. Sure, the player who eventually gets the nod might have a positive or negative reaction to the appointment, but the players who are already looked up to and already have a big influence around the club will still do so whether they are officially captain or not. The real difference is in the public eye, and I think Davey would have the biggest (positive) impact on the club how it is perceived if made capatain as opposed to the others apparently in the frame to be chosen.

Agreed. But good to hear in any case

Thanks for the explanation, but I'm not sure what this has to do wit religion? Might be a good idea to have someone that "looks after" that kind of thing, but why should he be promoted as having an affiliation (this probably isn't strong enough of a word) with a specific religion?

I'm taking that all for the joke that it is. If you think about the game (both games in this instance) on more of an intellectual level then I'm not quite sure why having a wider goal (and presumably then more goals per game) and changing a key rule that makes the game a "challenge" (the offside rule) would make it "better". I suppose every time an AFL team develops a strategy to limit the opposition's chances of scoring (gee we're slow at developing that side of the game) we should just change the rules, wait to see what other changes will happen as a result fo the rule change and then make some other rule change and set off another chain reaction. This talk of "intellectualising" the game is not me saying I am smarter than any other fan, I'm just saying I think about it and enjoy it in a different way. It's not just more goals = better game = I had more fun = lets make sure that happens more often.

I don't blame you if you were out at The Riverside!! I think Victory's average crowd in the last season Boro were in the premier league was better than that at the north-eastern English club. The 'good' moments in the A-league are genuinely exciting and skillful. The problems is that almost every team has a few players on the pitch that bring the quality down a few notches. Still it's good to have a team to support and watch every week in your home town, and it's great to have a home town rivalry blossoming. I go pretty much every week, and the quality, form, ladder position and opponent doesn't really have anything to do with it. By the way, that night at White Heart Lane was going well for Spurs until a late, late equaliser from Arsenal at a set piece. It really fired the crowd up and made the hour or so after the game around the stadium very "interesting" indeed.

heart v VICTORY on Saturday night is going to effing rock. While it may not last here, you can't get that kind of atmosphere and game in the AFL. I've been lucky enough to see the mancs v Liverpool (in the away end at Old Trafford), Sevilla v Real Betis, Tottenham v Arsenal and a few other games with massive tension and passion involved and it brings something different to the sport you just don't have in AFL. Before anyone blows their lid about crowd violence and horrible chanting, etc, that's not what I'm referring too.

I'm surely not the only one that gets nervous when I see a new Jimmy Stynes thread?

Not sure about the time... But does anyone know if genuine research has been done that backs up why teams (generally) train in the morning? I'm guessing getting to bed early and up early is the right thing for the body, but I also would have thought training at the time of your (next) game would make sense. Playing at 7:40pm on Friday night... train once or twice that week at 7:40 to get used to it...

Not sure what effect that has, other than making the guy who missed the shot try a bit harder to get more out of himself to teach the smart arse(s) a lesson. I'm more worried about our youngsters standing back a little and not really stepping into the footy when it's there to be won against experienced big bodies that just go that bit harder and knock our boys outta the way.

You guys are genuinely funny. I'm not saying aussie rules doesn't have a tactical side. It is being developed quite well in recent times. But when having a go at "soccer" like that, you are really just showing yourselves up as not understanding the game. It's ok not to like the game, I don't really care if you hate it. But this is just amusing. You may like to watch the odd game of "soccer", you may watch lots of it, but you definitely don't understand it.

PITMASTER - what is the book like? Because the book I mentioned (Inverting the Pyramid) is not the notes of one particular coach/manager ro a collection of notes from coaches/managers. It's a history tfootball tactics. The author no doubt looked at dozens (if not hundreds) of such coaches notes, some more than 128 pages. It's a book that looks at the origins of the game, the origins of the original rules and tactics of the game. It looks at the pioneers of successful (and not so successful) tactics. Covers the clever coaches that moulded the game into the tactical battle it is (well, it can be) today. I'm not really doing it justice... But my original point was that such a book could not be written on aussie rules. Not due to a lack of quality footy writers, but because it's a completely different game. Tactically, they're not in the same solar system. The thought that has gone into "soccer" tactics and the development and impact it has had on the game dwarfs anything that has gone on in the AFL. That the game is played by so many people from so many different countries, and intellectualised and debated by all these people makes it something that aussie rules can never be. Aside from the obvious differences in the game, this is one of them. I suppose it comes down to how you think about the game (both games).

Sorry mate, do you have a link or some more info so I can find what you're talking about? Actually, i might have just found it...

Read the following book and let me know when something similar is available on the history of Australian Rules Football tactics... I won't hold my breath, mate. http://www.amazon.com/Inverting-Pyramid-History-Football-Tactics/dp/0752889958 I'm all for beauty being in the eye of the beholder, but if you genuinely think that the tactics and thinking behind the game of aussie rules is anywhere near as important as what happens in "soccer" or how the game has been developed tactically (in both games) then I really don't think you have a good understanding of either game.

AFL supporter on AFL-related website in "Aussie rules better than Soccer" shocker!