binman

We have tampered with multiple drafts so we have form. The idea of the drafts is to equalize the comp and allow teams at the bottom to rise to the top. We have thumbed our nose at that philosophy and refused to follow the AFL directive to improve. We'll show em PS its not BP's fault

Well to be fair the way things are travelling for the dees at the moment if Jamar was considering leaving for the opportunity for the "ultimate success" as opposed to bucketfuls of money he sadly is just as like to find it at GWS as MFC. Dam he might figure he can get both there!

Indeed. And to think i was going to suggest having to wait 10 years but thought that way over the top (an may well have caused a valve to pop). Anyway we don't want or need a wuffian like Darling at the MFC. I'll bet he didn't even go to a private school. And if he did i bet it wasn't in the class of our Melbourne colleges. Darling isn't fit to shine David Cordner's boots (who by the way was our last last great forward, David that is not his boots)

Nooooooooooooooo - please don't start this again. BP got it right. CFC got it right about BP. MFC didn't get it right about BP. Darling has no upside, Cook was all U18 AA and in 7 years time will repay BPs faith. We don't need another hero. We don't need to know the way home. Please mods shut it down before i go crazy.

Interesting approach from Moloney's manager, presumably with Moloneys blessing. Interesting timing too. Rats and sinking ships and all. The desire for success is raised as a motivation for moving. I could see Jamar having value to one of the teams pushing for top 4 next year (Collingwood being one obvious example) but Moloney? I don't think so. Any team close to the top four and therefore "ultimate success" already have great midfields and he won't get in 'em. Can't see any of the current top 8 teams wanting him. Perhaps GWS or GC as they will want experience for a few years yet to compliment their youngsters but he could go to them in the draft Perhaps he could take Brocks place at the Bullants

I agree with this. Also you could see Neeld was seething about the hits on him and i'm guessing the players would have been also. He is one of the boys, part of the team already and this is a huge factor i reckon, in terms of team dynamics and culture. When he plays his first game for the dees there will be none of the "getting to know" the: team, systems, vibe etc or need to earn respect (he's done that already) that most other new recruits have to deal with. He'll be ready to go and it will be like he has always been around. I think with Viney we can see he will be a good player. Perhaps he doesn't have the tricks or potential of some others in the next draft, i wouldn't know. But surely a premium must be put on the fact that we can pretty bloody confident he will make it, is a dee already and has the sort of toughness and dare i say it intensity we so desperately need. To an extent it goes to the argument about picking the best player or the one who best meets your needs. In this case he meets our needs and i for one would love to see a player at the dees who goes 100% at contests and causes the sort of angst amongst opposition players (in his first game against men) that sees a veteran AFL player in his final year risk getting reported and sitting out games. Horse's for courses and we need this horse.

Does anyone have any intel and/or expertise about our current training load? How about Hells Gate, can you shed any light on this question? perhaps rudeboy It would be an interesting question to put to Misson, perhaps Burgan can do so. I remember a few years back Eade really flogged the dogs about 2/3 into the season for a few weeks and was quite open about it. They really fell away (after a very strong season to that point) due to the resultant fatigue and there was a fair bit of debate about the tactic (as it turned out it didn't really help, they lost a few and then couldn't and then found it hard to get their mojo back)

Interesting. He got reported for hitting Viney earlier in the match also, I saw the hit on tv i think (looked fairly light but a hit to the face none the less) - it must have also been been after a review as they didn't mention it on th Channel 7 when showing the footage of him playing. We have a new arch enemy. Bastard

I second that emotion, freaks me out every time i see it

I don't think his possession and goal stats is what he will be judged by. Bails performance is irrelevant to Watts situation. Neeld mentioned he was to back to Casey to work on specific things, in particular pressure and tackling. I think its reasonable to assume meeting the related KPI's will be criteria for a recall.

A query for the board. I've been thinking how slow we seem to be and how despite a big pre season we are struggling to run out quarters and games. Obviously one big pre season is not likely to be enough if as Misson had suggested we were way under the required fitness standard (though Essendon seemed to improve their fitness substantially between Knights and Hird - perhaps we were alot further back). And we do lack leg speed across the team. However i wonder if Misson is continuing to train the squad super hard, perhaps thinking ahead to 2013 and this is contributing to our obvious fatigue. Perhaps they looked at the fixture and thought we are in for some pain in the first half of the season any way (partic because it will take at least half a season to get the game plan) so why not [censored] them then ease up or taper a bit in the second half when we have alot more winnable games. This sort of heavy loads and tapering (albeit in shorter cycles than half a season) has been part of footy for along time and i'm pretty sure is something Craig favored as did the pies This might serve the purpose of building the fitness to the level required to implement the game plan . It might increase the number of games we win the back half, build the belief of both the team and supporters and provide a great platform for 2013 both in terms of fitness but also confidence. A long bow perhaps but perhaps a necessary step as we are clearly not fit enough to implement Neelds game plan and what other alternatives are there to get them up to the fitness level required in a hurry? Thoughts? Does anyone out there have any knowledge about how hard they are currently being pushed? Am i clutching at straws?

They won't pick Watts, one tackle won't do it. Jurrah won't come back, not when you have the player himself saying he needs more time at Casey. Bennell definitely will be selected, he showed the kind of intensity the last couple Neeld is looking for. Besides we will need his run to have hope of covering the Hawk's spread.I wonder if Couch will be elevated off the rookie list and selected as he was again among Casey's best this week, in a game that was pretty willing by the sound of it. Sellar to be dropped (never to return in my book, i'd rather Juice in). Do we need another big man to replace him? Probably but perhaps Jamar could go one out with a chop out from Mitch. Tapscott to get dropped. Agin they need runners and even though Bail played poorly on the weekend Tappy was not that much better and offers little run (suddenly we are a team of plodders, Gys out is a bummer, what's the stroy with Blease?)

Sellar has to be dropped, he was hopeless, a liability. His stats for someone who played close to 100% of the game were simply woeful (3 i think)

Wouldn't it be 23 players?

Interesting idea. One problem Jack will have though is the 2 week break the Scorps have. Perhaps he'll play in the development squad (i highly doubt it). A two week break is nonsense and won't help Green or Jurrah for that matter

The Scorps play tomorrow then next week then have a 2 week break (a bye and the state game or something) so he will need to really star in the next 2 games or else he is likely to miss at least a month.

I made the point that Neeld would not be picking Watts if he wasn't showing the required level of intensity. Well he's dropped him and i take from that he believes his intensity is not where it needs to be. That's good enough for me. I stand by my comments about Jack's talent etc but i also trust Neeld and i'm hopeful he really does know how to get the best out of players. I'll be fascinated to read KC's description of the Casey game as i reckon how Watts responds will give us a great indication of where he is at.

Jeez i don't know about that there have been some pretty out there suggestions. Recently i read a couple of suggestions that we should trade Watts - surely that trumps it in the stupidity stakes

Spot on. And this is not a recent phenomena that can be blamed on Bailey and BP, realistically it stretches probably as far back as the late sixties. Stars in my book are the elite, straight in to the all Austrlaian side no questions asked sort of players. I don't know but i'd be guessing we've had fewer AA selections on average than just about every other team

I am honestly perplexed by the trenchant criticisms of Jack Watts by a handful of posters on Demonland. To be clear I am not a Jack Watts apologist nor do i see him through rose coloured glasses. I consider myself to be pretty objective when it comes to rating Melbourne players, have seen alot of them and I rate Watts highly. I understand the query about his hardness at the ball etc. I had the same concerns (and voiced them on Demonland) before the start of the 2011 season. To summarise those comments, in my opinion, he had to show increased intensity. Which in my mind, having watched him closely all season, he did. This view was largely shared on Demonalnd IIRC and most posters here would also have been watching closely. The issue of his supposed lack of hardness seems to me to overly colour the view of Jack, in the same way that the occasional flashes of athletic brilliance overly colours the opinions of many about Natanui (top 50 in the league - give me a break). Yes there are times he could be more physical with his attack at the ball but look, at this stage that is not his go - and perhaps never will be. That said his intensity improved last year and was acceptable and likewise has been ok this season. Clearly Neeld agrees or else he would have dropped him. Neeld made it perfectly clear when he started (and multiple times since) no one would get picked on reputation, that he was starting with a clean sheet, there would be no passengers and furthermore specifically publicly put Watts on notice. Does anyone seriously believe he would compromise himself with his players (who of course know better than anyone who is putting in and who isn't) or risk losing their respect and pick Watts when it wasn't warranted? Watch the snippet of his first speech before answering. So if we assume the answer is no, his continued selection is evidence that in regard to intensity (and his general performance level for that matter) he has satisfied Neeld and the FD, who are both well paid and well placed to make that assessment. That's good enough for me. So what about the other facets of his game. He is by far the best user of the footy in the team - by far, as evidenced by his disposal efficiency statistics. As we all have seen this is absolutely crucial in footy generally but even more so in a team of disposal spuds. He almost always takes the right option. He kicks equally well of both feet, indeed he is a better left foot kick than almost every other player in the team is on their natural foot in terms of not missing targets. He is clean with his hands, amazing below his knees and quick (for any size). The deft touches he so often does (clearly influenced by his basketball background) are creative and bring other players into the game. On that point i reckon these taps on and flicks etc sometimes unfairly give the impression he's not going hard at it, but they can be devastating. He is unselfish and has incredibly quick hands - as an example watch the bit of play in the 3rd quarter last week (AFL video on Bigpond) where he gives off to Davey putting him in space (who then gives it to Beamer who gets hungry, doesn't give the easy ball over to Dunn who was completely free and misses a sitter - Watts would have almost certainly got it to Dunn). He is a team player and looks to bring others into the game, as evidenced by his goal assist stats (a stat coaches apparently put alot of store in) I say all of the above because as i say i reckon many in the media and some on this site are not objective enough about him. There is way too much discussion (and has been throughout his brief career) about being number a 1 draft pick. Its a totally moot point now and again distract from objectively assessing him. Facts are he finished 9th in the Bluey last year and apart from last week has been amongst our best this year and has consistently put in Is he star at the moment - no. Will he be? I am very confident he will be but understand why others may not. Could he be more physical? Of course, it is one of the weakness in his game. But watching him again on the replay you realise how skinny he still is (this is not an excuse by the way just a fact) and that he probably won't fill into his body until he is 23 or 24. When he does there is no doubt, even if he isn't as aggressive at the ball as say Hurley, he will be much, much stronger and will impose himself more through that strength. In the mean time the dees desperately need his skill and ability to create. Realistically he and Jurrah (and perhaps Frawley, apologies to Trennners) are currently the only players in the line-up who have the potential to be legitimate top shelf, A graders. Neeld has got him early enough and if he is as good a developer of players as his reputation suggest he is then Watts will fulfil that potential (and i'm sure be taught to be more direct in his attack, something another 5 kgs of muscle will help no end)

I blame Jack Watts for all the silly posts littered throughout the Demonland space time continuum suggesting he should be dropped and/or traded. I also blame him for being a number 1 draft pick. While i'm at it I blame him for having the temerity for being a good natured young kid - who the hell does he think he he is, develop some spite. How dare he go around looking so happy, doesn't he know he should be snarling and not so chilled?

I totally agree. Bail is a very important player for us. Am i right in thinking he hadn't played a huge amount of footy before we picked him up? IIRC his focus was on athletics and was a state rep for Qld in the 400 or some such distance (unless i'm confusing him with someone else of course). Tremendous upside and i reckon all the young players will benefit hugely from having a coach who is a proven developer

Good to see the Gys back in only i week, i thought i saw him listed as 2-3 weeks last week, which would be a welcome change (ie weeks off not weeks on)

I think i dreamt the answer to this question last night

All in good fun Biff, no malice i assure you. I have a real fondness for Ray Biffen by the way. My Dad wasn't much into footy (so not sure why i'm such a nut for it) and actually barracked for Richmond - sort of. Dad was in advertising and I think his agency was handling Fable records. One day he brought home the demons theme song on a 45 single, on which Ray had scrawled a message to me and signed his name and number (19 at that stage, am i right in thinking he initially had another number?). I loved that record. The flip side had that song that stared "When football season comes around again, the fans are streaming from the grounds again, there's a sort of fever that keeps us on our toes, hear the fans a roaring as the whistle blows.....etc etc". Still one of the very few songs (other than the dees theme song and one or two Beatles tracks) that i know all the words to. Keep the axe sharp, that Cook fella really needs to be brought down a peg or two.