binman

That's right, and besides players can only leave if they're out of contract (or quit footy i suppose). I'm not up on contracts etc but i doubt there's a huge number out of contract at season's end and precious few of them are likely to attract any interest whatsoever from other clubs. Teams might be keen on Jamar but performances like Sunday where as a the key ruck-man he gets the princely total of 5 possessions won't help his cause. Indeed we have few players full stop that other clubs would want - contracted or uncontracted - which doesn't really put us in good position to trade (perhaps we could package up 5 player lots - "a bit shop soiled but great filler for your VFL affiliate side - get em while they're hot!") There will be a mass exodus, mark (neeld) my word, but it won't be because players are clamoring to leave. MN will cut as many players as is practicable, i reckon up to 8 or nine.

We will win 5-6 and won't finish last or second last

He's buggered like the rest of the list. Post bye freshen up and 5-6 wins will follow

I know i'm banging on about this (i'll stop i promise - or maybe not) i really reckon all these queries can be explained by our intensive training regime. The players are super fatigued, from the first bounce and then progressively more so. When exhausted their structures and ability to keep playing their assigned role falls away. As for Trengove, in an article a couple of weeks ago Gary Lyon noted how slow he appeared ("heavy in the legs" i think was the phrase) and put it down to a heavy pre season and suggested a freshen up was in order. Well i reckon the pre season has continued and they are still in a heavy training phase but post bye they'll get the freshen up and all players will relish the drop in training load. 5-6 wins in the second half of the season is my tip

There were some comments flying around on Demonland that we should have gone after Lyon as a coach a bit harder and that he wouls have been better than Neeld. My view is i'm bloody glad we didn't as Lyon and his approach to footy shits me (i expect Neeld will get more expansive once we master the defensive part of the game - Lyon will always remain dour it would seem). However i understand the argument that his experience would have been useful. However there is an obvious parallel between the two coaches in terms of their new positions. Both have taken over flashy, attacking sides that have been heavily criticised over the last 5 - 10 years for a poor culture, being inconsistent and flaky. Also both taking over from coaches that had an aggressive, attacking centre corridor style and are replacing that style with a boundary hugging contested footy style. Wait for the big questions of Lyon after today's game. Two second half goals and only five for the match.With a side that all pundits rate as much more talented than the Melbourne list and much closer to a flag. If they were a Victorian side they would be under the pump here but i bet the Freo fans will get increasingly vocal (sounds familiar). So who would people prefer, Lyon or Neeld?

Such a ridiculous op. So, so silly it beggars belief. Watts played another pretty good game of AFL footy. If you look at his last 20 odd games he has been one of most consistent players at the clun in terms of performance. Full stop. Did he make mistakes today. Yes. But again he is not alone. Was he soft?. I don't think so. He got his share of contested ball, went back with the flight a few times and got some hard balls. Used the ball incredibally skillfully a couple of times in close - even the Channel 7 commentators noted it. A peer of his is Hurley. I'd rather Watts any day, so much more upside. Hurley was poor against GWS. I know he's coming back from a hammy but he was poor before he did his hammy. He will also be a top player but he will do so without any of the hate JW receives. Also he is playing back, another new position for him to master. How many roles has he had this year and how many positions has he been asked to play? People knock him yet he has not had a chance to settle in one role. And as much as it pains me to say Trengove was taken no 2 in his draft IIRC. Has been made captain, I reckon he is a good player but Watts's numbers this year slay his unfortunately. I'm not saying knock Trengove but if people are realistic they'd be questioning Trengove before they ask questions of Watts. Watts is our only elite level kick and hand baller. Hand balling and kicking. The two most fundamental skills of the game and JW excels at both. Add his ability to read the play and you have a pretty complete package. Not playing AFL footy in 2 years? So, so silly

I (sort of) agree to this. In terms of Neeld and his game plan i'll give him to mid next season to form my judgement (obviously i have my short term views etc but i'll keep my powder dry). As i have said in another thread in the short term i have little doubt they are getting absolutely flogged on the track which means on top of not being able to fully recover before the next game means they are stuffed late in quarters and in games. They'll ease up in the second half of the season and we'll get a few wins (5-6 i reckon, which if we did wouldn't look so bad compared to last year) I'm completely unfit but when i do do some exercise i know once i get fatigued (about 10 mins after i started) my capacity to think straight diminishes and i suspect fatigue will also be affecting the players ability to stay focused on their role, structure etc (as NJ has pointed out they are working on making things instinctive, which takes ages). But in regard to the quote above i share the view in so far as i reckon there is an incredible amount of revisionism going on in the media about our so called game plan and form in 2011. I reckon we went backwards in 2011, wins not withstanding. Of course alot of player want to play that sort of game, its what they are used to and it doesn't take as much effort but half decent sides crushed us last year because of it. Essendon (as much as i hate to admit it) and the Crows are playing great attacking footy this year but is 100% underpinned by ferocious tackling and pressure and attention to defensive structures.

RudeBoy i'm a bit surprised by this post and not a little concerned in so far as i can't recall many posts from you where you have been negative about the club. Given your potential insights it worries me more than David Kings rantings that you reckon he's spot on about everything.

I reckon they will do a bit of both. There's no doubt he will cut the list back as far as practicable (there is a limit, perhaps no more than 9?). Neeld will want some hard bodies who will do what they're told and play whatever role they are assigned. They will come from a mix of FA, trading and picking up ready to go players from the VFL (or other equivalent comps). If you are a committed, hard training, strong VFL in the early to mid 20's you've got look in. Some of the Casey boys would be on that radar no doubt. Basically they need a new senior group. But they will also want some quality young players with their early picks. Can't have it all i guess but they will do their best to balance these demands.

To me this is the nub of the issue. No one can argue huge changes were (are) needed at the club but i agree with the sentiment above and to be honest was concerned from the outset with Neelds tough man, what's past is in the past approach. I get the feeling he is moderating this a bit though and one hopes he is savvy enough to change if required (not that he should be knocked off course by the players, we def don't want the tail wagging the dog but getting 40 odd blokes heading in the same direction is obviously a very complex process and requires a level of sophistication and acknowledgement that one size doesn't always fit all)

Did you just quote yourself?

Not a bad idea in some respects, at least in the short term. He got some huge number of intercepts apparently, in large part due to how well he reads the play. Given his teammates couldn't hit a barn door and have long seemed to ignore his leads anyway playing of the half back line will increase the number of possessions he gets and take him to the contest (also increase his physicality). Wish i could say i'm surprised some posters still have found a way to knock his performance, but unfortunately i'm not. It seems his card is marked for some. But there is no doubt he was our best player and i for one put a lot of stock in player who perform when we are getting toweled up. I was always amazed that Robbie Flower seemed to play better the more we were getting beat, shows a strength of character in my book. It is the trait of a leader. Compare his effort, body language and performance to his senior colleagues. I mean please

'I'll be interested in your reports from any training you get to. If i'm right about tapering off in the second half of the season i reckon they'll go really hard to the bye then start easing off

Fascinating article about Misson's current training regime. It would seem apparent that yes loads are very heavy now, much heavier than clubs who are top 8 chances and much higher than they will be during next season. Augurs very well for second half of season i reckon: http://www.melbourne...wsid=136145 "Right now Melbourne is using the midweek session to train hard. This is different to what Misson faced at his two previous clubs, where mid-season sessions were more often a process of ticking the body and mind over. At Melbourne each session is seen as another step towards helping players develop the sort of mindset needed to become an AFL player. That makes them tough and the approach means training carries an inherent risk of injury. But it fits the long-term view the club is taking. ......... He knows that to create bodies and minds able to implement a game plan designed to stand up in finals testing midweek sessions are required. "[We want] to send a team out and send individuals out who know exactly what they need to do in [certain] situations," Misson said. It might not be translating to gameday just yet, but the players are aware of the work required. ................ And it's part of the bigger picture that has Misson anticipating the future. "A session like we had today where we are doing accountability drills, really strong, hard game running - next pre-season we are going to be able to do that all January instead of teaching structural stuff," Misson said. "We are going to be able to have those hard running, hard spreading sessions [so] by the time games come along we are used to game running." '.................. "That is the challenge, sticking the journey," Misson said."

Flicking across the news headlines on the demonland page i misread one of them and read: Cashed up demons chase coke Now that would be a story (not to mention a more likely scenario than us getting Cloke to the club). Must be a drought on

Flick the switch

He only recorded one tackle. When i saw the footage i hoped that wasn't it!

I do too, at least if the alternative is maccas. If the alternative was Danny's burgers i'd go that option in a flash

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dees-need-to-show-they-are-on-right-track-20120510-1yfmm.html?rand=1336655150959

So good of you to so humbly give us our "options". I for one fall in with the dolts, for all the reasons i detailed earlier in this thread (way back in the mists of time), which i can't be bothered going back over. So i will make some predictions instead. Watts will prove to be an inspired choice as number 1. He will develop gradually (roughly on the same trajectory as he had done so far, perhaps a bit more sharply with Neelds help) over the next 3 seasons, during which time these arguments will persist. His intensity will improve as it did last year. By the time he is 25 he will be selected in the All Australian team and be a regular selection thereafter (something we have not had since Flower). He will play multiple positions (as Neeld has already flagged), including key positions (possibly at both ends of the ground) and the questions over his best position will continue, but more and more the discussion will be more along the lines off "well they just need 2 watts" His intelligence will become a feature highlighted more and more by commentators He will grow into a leadership role and end up being a key mentor and role model for younger players

Thanks Jimcor that's quite interesting. Someone made the good point that players take until the Thursday to fully recover from a game of footy so perhaps they are limited in how hard they can work the player in terms of building endurance during the season. However your astute observation about what type of running exercises they have been doing perhaps suggests a focus on endurance building continues from the pre season. It also may support my (hopeful) theory of having a high load in the first half of the season before easing up iin the second half, freshening up the players and taking advantage of an easier draw. Dare i say it but perhaps we'll come home with a wet sail and talk about having to take Viney in the top 3 will be redundant.

Nor any other illicit drugs i hope

By the by when scanning the thread titles quickly, a coupe of times i've read Friday night as Fright night. Bloody perceptive sub conscious!

and make it a line in the snow

Jamar hasn't begun any negotiations via the media. Neither he or his manager has said diddly squat. By the logic you suggest, Jamar, who is holding tight could be a flight risk