binman

A nod to Star trek? A scary, manic ball winner from the house of demon?

I have been reading the thread title as: King Oliver better than Cripps & Bont It never occurred to me I had misread it. Only realised just then i had been. King Oliver has a nice ring to it. I'm going to start using it.

Umpire contact Players will be prohibited from setting up behind the umpire at centre bounces. Impact on competition: the only impact i can see is that some teams might run 'set plays' that involve setting up behind an umpire, or perhaps use the umpire to help break a tag. So minimal to no impact i would have thought Impact on dees: see above Potential implementation and interpretation issues: who calls the free? obviously the officiating umpire can't, so would have to be one of the others. In which case they are a fair way away. What constitutes behind the umpire ie how far away can they be to not be deemed setting up behind the umpire? I assume there is a set distance, but how will a non officiating umpire measure it? I'm predicting this rule will at some point result in a completely baffling free kick that changes the course of a game. I look forward also to the first time it is paid. I predict the commentators will give it an inordinate amount of air time.

I assume you mean you would only play Hunt at hb? I take your point about his difficulty hitting targets inside 50 - his kicking is a concern wherever he plays. But better kicking inside 50 than from defence and his bomb it style suits our strategy of long chaos ball kicks into our 50.

Why are they playing it in the morning? Surely they could play it say 5:30, allowing people to come after work. Which is what they did 2 (maybe 3?) years ago. The place was packed and it was terrific to have a bevvie and watch the dees (it was an intra club game).

Yep, not a bad lineup PD. I assume that is how you would select the team, not a prediction of the lineup. To be honest i don't really know enough about Hore, so will take your word for it. I can't see Salem playing wing and Hunt at HB. I can see the opposite however. Hunt's kicking is not good enough for HB (so important to have good kicks there) and he isn't great one on one. Salem has become a natural defender and is our best kick hunts pace will be best used on the wing i think. I'm not sure if i would pick Pruess, probably not, but in terms of predicting the round one lineup i think he will play. i don't think Hore will play, don't think KK will (but won't be surprised if he does) and suspect Smith will play up forward.

On a confidence scale is that behind #Takeittothebank ?

Really interesting question. Players regularly stand close to the player on the mark to block that side. As I understand it there is no rule against doing so. As you point out doing that from 9 metros away would have more of an impact because the player kicking out would get much more space to run into.

I just opened this thread for the first time. ANB beat Omac? What the [censored]? Is there a repercharge?

Marks and free kicks in defence When defenders mark or receive a free kick within nine metres of their own goal, the man on the mark will be brought in line with the top of the goal square. Impact on competition: can't imagine it will have a huge impact, but will mean it is less tricky clearing the ball from the last line as defenders won't be hemmed in against the boundary or goal line. Impact on dees: none Potential implementation and interpretation issues: might create some confusion early doors but after that pretty easy to work out - assuming the umpires can work out how far 9 metres is and how to draw an imhgainary straight line from the top of the square Runners and water carriers Team runners may only enter the playing surface after a goal has been kicked and must exit before play restarts. Water carriers are not permitted to enter the playing surface during live play. Impact on competition: it will be really interesting to see what impact the runner rule change has. In theory it will mean players will have to make more decisions. But the runner will still get plenty of chances to relay messages in most matches and no doubt players coming on and off the filed will be given instructions to pass on and act as de facto runners. Will negatively clubs with young lists and those clubs who use the runner to stand in zones (something i hate). Can't see the water carrier rule change making any difference. Impact on dees: We are a pretty mature group now, with improving on field leadership and a good understanding of the game plan and team rules. The rule should work in our favour. Will suit smart players like big maxy who can make on field calls (like the one he made against the hawks to push forward) and direct teammates. Potential implementation and interpretation issues: not sure what the penalty is for a runner or water carrier coming onto the filed when they shouldn't or who is responsible for policing these rules. How will the central umpire know when the runner is off. Do they need to come of through the interchange? So those issues might cause problems. Also play will not restart until a runner comes off. How will that work. What if they stroll off? Might be a ploy to hold up play eg to stop momentum.

i understand the focus of pumping resources into the the football department as a priority. Which was PJ's approach. But really now that we have more resources they need to invest in growing our membership. The way to grow our membership is to get kids and young people supporting our club. In this day and age the way to connect and engage with kids and young people is through quality online content and social media. Neither of my kids watch any free to air TV. At all. It is all youtube and Instagram and in my son's case also NBA.com. The only time my son mentions anything about the dees is when something pops up in his Instagram feed. Burgs was fine but he wasn't the issue. The turn of the century approach to media and content is the issue. Get with the program dees. Invest. Develop some quality content t (like down the ground video, analysis etc) and not just 90 seconds rubbish clips, longer content (eg 15 mins). Fans will consume it and cast to their TVs or watch on their devices. I would. Sort out the social media aspect. Sort out a proper Youtube presence (the Dees MFC site is embarrassing). Simple really. But requires an investment

Not sure where you got that idea from.

You sure? Looks like they photoshopped my left arm into that shot.

A water birth?

Yes, they could. The question is why? Perhaps to set up rheie extras in defense and flood back I guess.

I agree that where the winger will often start. But he will need to get to about 20- 30 metres out straight in front of goal or pocket (not CHF), which is where a kick from a center clearance will get to. No way that winger gets to that spot before a tap to a mid then quick kick. And that player will be running with the flight of the ball (albeit at an angle) which makes intercepting very hard - not to mention dangerous. I said that would take 5 seconds but that is too long. It would barely take 2 seconds. Tap, mid, handball and kick might take 5 seconds. But really how often in a game do either of the scenarios actually happen? Maybe 10-15 times? So i agree the rule will have very little impact on congestion in the back half - or for that matter scoring. So very little impact at all. hard to see how the rule change is anything more than about aesthetics. On both teams setting their wingers on the 50 metre arc and so therefore not on their direct oppnt, i'm not convinced that will happen. Some coaches will use their wingers (one or both) as an attacking option and ensure their is no outnumber in the back half. A quick player like Hunt could sprint to a deep pocket and make his direct opponent decide whether to go to the hot spot or with Hunt. If he chooses not to follow Hunt, he is free.

I agree this rule will the one most likely pen to variability in interpretation and will have implementation issues. But rather than more goals, perhaps they operate from any news is good news principle and wanted another contraversial rule that has lots of grey. You don't have to be einstein to predict all the rabbiting on in print, on radio and TV there will be about marks, frees, non frees related to this rule. Did he bend the arm, did he shove, no he was just holding his ground, Hawkins is just using his strength and that is why the defender was propelled forward, love this rule, hate this rule, just going back to how footy has always been played, l ed ta slow down the video blah, blah, blah

True. But often the other 'spare' is also a defensive 7th player- and sometimes and extra forward or mid. The 666 rule will give coaches far fewer options for where spares can start. The rule should in theory create much less situationalns from centre bounces where spares are possible. But what might happen is some players might start well away from their direct opponent and in strange spots and/or formations eg the intersection of the 50 meter arc and the boundary or all forwards in the corridor. All that said as George from the outer the 666 rule is onltly relevant at centre clearances and teams will still flood back and create out numbers as a matter of course.

Disagree that it will have no effect. It certainly won't be a huge impact as there are not that many clearances direct from the cenre. But in the event there is one it will not be possible for the winger to fill the 'hole' 30 meters out in front of goal (which the spare currently does), even if they start eg right on the 50 meter arc. A direct tap to a mid then kick will be at that spot in less than 5 seconds.no player is that quick. And as macca notes team would be rolling the dice having one or both of their wingers starting on the 50 meter arc as the opposition will then have the option of having their winger stand by himself dead centre wing or just ahead of centre.

Kick-ins At kick-ins, a player will no longer need to kick to himself to play on from the goal square. Following a behind, the man on the mark will be brought out to 10m from the top of the goal square, rather than the existing five metres. Impact on competition: Kick in player not kicking to himself will mean marginally quicker kick in, making it more difficult to cover the outlet kick The 10 metre rule will really open up the field - a player who can kick 60 metres will get it to the centre almost Together these two rules are very likely to help teams move the ball forward more quickly The 10 metre rule is the that i think will create the most innovation from coaches and may end up having the greatest impact in terms of changing how the game is played - for example: the longest kicks might, rather than the most accurate, might take kick ins, we might see more torps (like the one Frost unloaded against the Hawks) and maybe a play will b to kick to space (and over presses) on the wings and let quick players 'race' to get it Also coaches will need to come up with new defensive mechanism to maintain presses and stop quick transitions - and i have no doubt they will Impact on dees: As FarNorthernD points out the recruitment of May will benefit us with the new kick in rule he is long and accurate kick that should provide opportunities for very quick transition But players like Frost and hunt, who are both quick and can kick long torps might get a crack at kick outs Also Hunt with his speed might be a player who could run into space for long bombs kicked into space down a wing Potential implementation and interpretation issues: In terms of interpretation, without a line on the ground based on umpires inability to gauge 15 metre kicks i suspect they will regularly get the 10 metre wrong - they 'll probably let them run 20! - maybe they will need to put a dot 10 meters out That said both rules easy to interpret and i don't really see any possible implementation issues - however as noted above i think these rules will have abig impact and no doubt a number of unintended consequences

Background All rule changes that have been introduced to the AFL have some impact. Some rule changes address the intended (perceived) issue. An example is the not having to wait for the goal umpire to signal a goal to kick out. It was introduced to keep the game moving and to make it less difficult to clear the defensive zone. And i think has been relatively successful in achieving these aims. Certainly offensive teams would rather a boundary throw in in the forward pocket than score a point. Another example of a rule change that addresses the intended issue has been the deliberate out of bounds rule adjustment where players have to make every attempt to keep it in. There are less kicks to the boundary line now wit the result that the ball stay in play more. Some rule changes have mixed results in terms of addressing the intended issue, outlawing the third man up rule being one example. And some rule changes don't address the intended issue at all. The below the knees rule is good example. It was introduced to reduce the risk of injury - specifically leg injuries- but i think you could mount a case it has increased risk as players are staging for it and the schmuck going for the ball gets bot in his head for his trouble. Think Angus Brayshw against the Hawks However, whether rule changes are effective, partly effective or ineffective there will always, to a greater or lesser degree, be unintended consequences of rule changes. For example with the change to deliberate team will sometime concede that free kick but try and kick 60 meters and then set up their defence. And players are getting better kicking 'for touch' and my feeling is players are more often spiking the ball over the lien as that (stupidly) doesn't get paid as deliberate. Often the unintended consequence is related to how it is governed - eg the stupidity of having to nominate ruck man - or how it is interpreted - eg deliberate or below the knees Discussion This year there are 9 rule changes. A big number by any measure. I'm curious what posters think the impact of the new rule changes will be on both the dees and the competition as a whole. On the latter point one thing i would like to get a handle on is the impact on scoring. One clear objective of the introduction of these rule is higher scoring. The strong trend to lower scores is a real worry for the AFL and these rules aim to address that trend Note: i'm not convinced by the rule changes. But my interest here is not whether they are good rule changes but what the impact will be. That said i understand much will depend on implementation and interpretation, so interested in views on that too as that will be factor in the success of the rule change. I have had a go at answering the question of impact and potential implementation and interpretation issues for the first rule change - and keen on other's views (for that rule change and the others). At some point i'll come back to the others and edit this post to include my thoughts (have run out of time atm) Note: i understand this is obviously a hypothetical exercise and we won't really know the impact until the end of the season. So guesses are just that and the impacts are all by definition potential impacts. The changes Traditional playing positions at centre bounces Clubs must have six players inside both 50m arcs, with one player inside the goalsquare. Four midfield players must start inside the centre square with the two wingmen stationed along the wing. Impact on competition: will create an even greater reward and therefore incentive to get center clearances and quick forward entries Will stop teams putting a spare behind the ball at centre bounces (though the 'wingman' will be able to roll back easily enough) - but obviously this will still occur in play Will the above put an emphasis on good one on on defenders such as McGovern? The teams with the best midfields will be even further advantaged Will help the best tap ruck man - Gawn, Grundy, Martin Might marginally take away some advantage of skilled intercept players like rance (in so far as teams can't have spare at centre bounces) Might we see the return of the specialized wingman? Likely to be some defensive and offensive innovations in terms of set ups and structure at center bounces Will the 'wingers' set just outside the 50 metre arc and fold back in as n extra defender? Impact on dees: We are already the highest scoring team - we will be harder to stop now Will stop Goody running two extra defenders off the HB (which he was doing less of anyway) Suits our contested ball winning midfield beasts We have the best tap ruck man - Gawn Might create some opportunity for Hunt, KK, Fritter and Stretch to play as specialized wingman May might be helped by 6 v 6 at centre bounce set up given his strength Potential implementation and interpretation issues: It might be easier said then done to determine if bot tams have their sick inside the arc if they start pushing right up the line Centre clearances straight from the ball up don't happen all that often so it may not have the impact the league is hoping for in terms of stopping teams putting players behind the ball Kick-ins At kick-ins, a player will no longer need to kick to himself to play on from the goal square. Following a behind, the man on the mark will be brought out to 10m from the top of the goal square, rather than the existing five metres. Impact on competition: Impact on dees: Potential implementation and interpretation issues : Marks and free kicks in defence When defenders mark or receive a free kick within nine metres of their own goal, the man on the mark will be brought in line with the top of the goalsquare. Runners and water carriers Impact on competition: Impact on dees: Potential implementation and interpretation issues : Team runners may only enter the playing surface after a goal has been kicked and must exit before play restarts. Impact on competition: Impact on dees: Potential implementation and interpretation issues : Water carriers are not permitted to enter the playing surface during live play. Impact on competition: Impact on dees: Potential implementation and interpretation issues : Umpire contact Players will be prohibited from setting up behind the umpire at centre bounces. Impact on competition: Impact on dees: Potential implementation and interpretation issues : 50m penalties The player with the ball: Must be allowed to advance the mark by 50m without the infringing player delaying the game. Will be able to play on while the 50m penalty is being measured out. Kicking for goal after the siren Impact on competition: Impact on dees: Potential implementation and interpretation issues : A player who has been awarded a mark or free kick once play has ended: Will now be able to kick across their body using a snap or check-side kick BUT must kick the ball directly in line with the man on the mark and the goal. Impact on competition: Impact on dees: Potential implementation and interpretation issues : Marking contests The 'hands in the back’ rule interpretation has been repealed so a player can now: Place his hands on the back of his opponent to protect his position in a marking contest PROVIDED he does not push his opponent in the back. Impact on competition: Impact on dees: Potential implementation and interpretation issues : Ruck contests: prior opportunity A ruckman who takes direct possession of the ball from a bounce, throw-up or boundary throw-in will no longer be regarded as having had prior opportunity. Where there is uncertainty over who is the designated ruckman, the ruckman for each team will still be required to nominate to the field umpire. Impact on competition: Impact on dees: Potential implementation and interpretation issues :

That's exactly how I see him being played w11. Good analysis. Agree with pd that preuss doesn't help us up forward but I really think they have brought him in to help manage maxy's loads and have as cherry ripe as possible come finals. He wont play every game. Maybe 13-16. Will spend a fair bit of time on the pine. Which as you say will impact on how much time others get to rest, but we can cover that. I think at some point, perhaps before or after the bye they will rest maxy and preuss will play solo.

He cost us the game down at geelong by coming off Hawkins and getting caught in no man's land on that last play.

For fun sat down to watch replay of the hawks v dees semi. I urge anyone who seriously thinks Frost might be picked ahead of Omac to watch the first 60 seconds of this game. Frost makes two bad errors where he miss reads the flight of the ball and gets (in spite of his strength) pushed under the ball. The second of these errors cost us a goal. In that same period Omac has three involvements: a straight line bump, a clean take and kick under pressure and a receive and effective kick. Yes it is an isolated example but none the less it reflects the gap between the players.

Happy to take bets on omac playing ahead of frost.