binman

Let me be the first to say he is an over rated injury prone player who would spent more time at the tattoo parlour than roaming our forward line. Dodged a bullet there.

Of course it can. And most likely is. Sure Frost had a good 2019. And yes he finished top 10 (just) in the B&F. But given he was one of a remarkably few players who played every game you'd be shocked if he didn't. In fact if he was as good as what so many are suggesting he should have finished top 5. But have people forgotten he couldn't get in to the team until half way though 2018? An on your point that really only Goody knows the reason they are open to trading him, leaving aside the fact that all in the FD would know, you are by and large correct. It is safe to assume Goody has other information informing the decision - for instance perhaps Frost is not following team rules or as Deanox suggests he is not suited to the zone defence or is too unpredictable to his teammates and so makes defensive systems hard to implement. I was dead against trading Watts. But i said at the time (and since) that i respected Goody's right to make the decision. The club never revealed the full reasoning for that decision but it was an accepted fact on DL that it was to do with cultural reasons and/or he didn't go in hard enough. Who knows if that is true. Which is sort of the point. Whatever the case just as with the Frost scenario they had their own rationale, reasoning and information informing the decision, which fans are not privy to.

The hawks have more average or above average kicks than us so the impact of frost is less for us than them.

I agree, to an extent. I don't have an issue with champion data per se. The issue for me is that all of their data is not available to Joe public and is released in little packages either through say the hun or here and there on tv and footy forums. Data needs to be seen in context of multiple sets of data. Otherwise it us too open to misinterpretation. As I have said before the AFL should pay for the lot and give it all to the public. Champion data would charge a lot because they make money from its exclusivity but so what. We would get good data and the market would open up because clubs would explore other options to get useful data.

I'll try and avoid being a smart [censored]. But in my opinion it is a completely ridiculous assertion that if Elliot cthose lions over us it is in any way an indictment on us. Baghdad bob sums up the reasons why a couple of (his) posts back

To be fair to me. I've always been a bit of a smart [censored], dipire agreeing with maxim sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. And I really struggle to contain my smart assery when rationale argument seems not to work against crazy logic. As that correctly suggest 2019 has tested my patiencevon dl.

Totally disagree. Trading frost now is smart list management as his stocks will never be higher. He is an average AFL player and if we could a mid second round draft pick for him they'll run like they stole something Omac on the other hand has no trade value atm and they would have to possibly pay some of contract. And besides i know I am in the minority here but I rate omac the better defender, for exactly the reason deanix notes in his excellent post above (and a previous similar one) frost is clueless when it comes to playing his role in a system and is add he will never be a natural defender. I know some posters seriously believe they know more about a player's ability and potential role in rhe team than tge professionals at a club in a billion dollar national competition. But for the sake of argument let's pretend they don't. And ask the question - why have they decided frost is expendable?

And if he dies choose the dees it means nothing in terms of providing evidence quality players do not want to come to our club. Why? Give me some time.

I have been swayed by the powerful logic in a number of posts in this thread. Elliott's decision is basically a referendum on our club. Him choosing lions over us would be a clear statement that we are a club no decent player wanrs to go to and further evidence of a club in crisis, how poor Goodwin is(ooh isnt fagan just wonderful) and how damaging 2019 really was. On the back of demons players left right and centre wanting out like the exodus out of the crows we are a rabble.

Gaff. Over rated. And besides we need more inside bulls.

Leaving aside the discussion about who is better player, Omac or frost, do people not understand that one has a contract in 2020 and one doesn't. So even if the club decided it wanted to keep Frost ahead of Omac, Omac woud have to want to leave. Given he is coming off a poor season as if now would be the ideal time to test the market and negotiate a contract at another AFL club when has a contract he is happy with for 2020 at the dees. Frost IS OUT OF CONTRACT.

Yep

Would you belive auto correct????

Oh please. Tell me you're joking

Sign me up.

One of the best days on the racing calender in my humble. terrific group racing in NSW and Vic. The last time that happens each Spring. A mix of some very tricky races and some with only a handful of chances. Great summary above Macca. The Gilgai is my perfect sort of race in terms of assessing and doing form (how i do it anyway). A group race with set weights and penalties where you can line up form and trust the ratings. Have not done my Sydney form as of yet but happy to make Sunline my best (Flemington Race 6 no 7), particularly with Home of the Brave out which i rated as a good outside chance. On weights and ratings and with luck largely not a factor up the straight think Sunline (rated 115) will roll Santa Anna Lane (rated 118), who is a star. But Sunline gets 2kg weight pull. And the way i do my form 1kg is worth 2 ratings points which which gets her to 119 in the ratings. As a guide I make 1 rating point 1 length. So with no other factors Sunline by a length. But added to that Sunline is brilliant at 1200, is rock hard fit, loves the good and Flemington (2 from 2 up the straight) whereas Santa Anna Lane is only fair first up and in the good. I also suspect this is Sunline's GF whereas Santa Anna Lane is looking for Everest riches and will improve on whatever it does. I'd have Sunline at even money so 2.60 is terrific value. I probably will have a little saver on Bella Martin for the place as i think it will run well and in a smallish field with not too many chances represents a pretty go price at around $5 the place.

No. Omac has a contract for 2020. Frost doesn't. End of story.

Agree. As i posted a few days ago i really rate Smith. He has something. Personally i prefer him up forward but agree he could play in defence.

Also Omac has a contract for 2020. And frosty does not.

It would be no surprise for them to miss finals next year. And every single AFL player would know that. They had a big year, like us last year they have gone deeper than previously, which is a challenge for youngish list and they had dream run with injuries. Not much has to go wrong for them to drop off.

On withdrawing offers I don't think tbat is always an indication a club has cooled or how they rate a player. In most instances I suspect in principle deals are done or close to being locked well before the trade period. Once it becomes clear to a club they are no longer in the race the logical play is to put it out there the club is not keen. Avoids stressing out supporters and creating an impression of a club no-one wants to go to and/or can't landcdeals. Like the roos have experienced. Being perceived as a club that gets deals done and gets the player it wants is helpful as well.

Above average?

So the mastermind Clarkson will turn frosty into a gun defender because he can see the diamonond beneath the pyrite. Given the hawks are so brilliant and sporting untapped talent and don't make mistakes what will we take from a decision not to go after frosty?

Ah, clever. Say no more.

We cannot have anorher rubbish kick in our side. We have only traded or drafted two above average kicks in the Roos/Goodwin era - Salem and fritter. And offset that by trading out our only elite kick in watts. Two out of what 35-40 new players? Given Tomlinson and Langdon are at best average kicks we simply have to prioritise kicking skills in every other trade or draft.