binman

3 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

The big one is the short 45 kicking game to counter an opponent who presses and once you find the one who is sagging off go with speed on the ball in a more direct forward motion. That was happening in soccer for years with their short passing in triangles to draw teams out then go with a diagonal pass behind the back.

There’s also the popular in vogue scoring from turnover from the defensive half, which is very much what Elenio Herrera’s Inter Milan sides of the 60s were built on and still to this day is very much used as the call in soccer “counter attack”

Yep, good call.

The method obviously requires players to hit a high percentage of those short 15-20 metre kicks - kicks AFL players under little pressure should hit 85% of the time (does my head in how many of our players miss those kicks).

But just as important, perhaps more so, is multiple teammates have to bust a gut to offer a lead up target (multiple is important because it stretches defences and breaks zone).

That requires fitness and a willingness to do lots of unrewarding running, which is a mental thing. Brisbane are brilliant at it, as are the Cats. We were terrible at it against the Sun, which is real worry.

By the by i answered that I'm just interested in their tactics and asked a follow up question:

What are the tactical overlaps between EPL and AFL (Australian rules football)?

While the English Premier League (EPL) and Australian Football League (AFL) are distinct sports, they share some tactical overlaps:

Pressing and Counter-Pressing: Both EPL and AFL teams use pressing tactics to disrupt opponents' play. In the EPL, high pressing and counter-pressing (gegenpressing) are common to regain possession quickly1. Similarly, AFL teams apply pressure to force turnovers and regain control2.

Formation Flexibility: EPL teams often adjust formations to exploit opponents' weaknesses, such as shifting between 4-3-3 and 3-5-23. AFL teams also adapt their formations during play to create space and maintain defensive solidity2.

Use of Space: Both sports emphasize creating and exploiting space. EPL teams use wingers and overlapping fullbacks to stretch the field3, while AFL teams use strategic positioning to open up the field for attacking plays2.

Data-Driven Strategies: Both leagues increasingly rely on data analysis to refine tactics. EPL teams use GPS tracking and video analysis to optimize player positioning and strategy3. AFL teams also integrate physical, technical, and tactical data to enhance performance2.

These overlaps highlight the strategic depth and adaptability required in both sports. If you have more specific aspects you're curious about, feel free to ask!

16 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

Arsenal had a 2-1 win overnight, are the boys taking any learnings from that one?

It's funny you should note that as there quite a lot of overlap between soccer and AFL in terms of tactics and method (i think AFL coaches are influenced by methods and tactics employed in soccer)

As an example, i asked Copilot this question:

In 100 words or less describe Arsenal's current tactical method.

Copilots' answer was:

Arsenal, under Mikel Arteta, employs a fluid tactical approach. They often use a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 formation, focusing on high pressing and quick transitions. The team emphasizes building from the back, with fullbacks like Zinchenko inverting to bolster midfield control.

Arteta's side adapts formations to exploit opponents' weaknesses, maintaining a high defensive line to support counter-pressing. This dynamic strategy aims to dominate possession and create numerical advantages in key areas.

Are you an Arsenal fan, or just interested in their tactics?

24 minutes ago, DemonKolt said:

I’m out at Casey now. Happy to report and answer questions

Lindsay and Campbell first on track, both doing a fitness test with conditioning staff

Lindsay moving reasonably well, sideways movement and light ball handling looking ok

How many weeks until you are back in full training?

1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

Langford kicks to advantage better than any of our players IMV. Bowey is one of our better kicks too

Agree on both, particularly Bowser (I knew I had forgotten someone- salo was rte other, but to be honest his kicking has become completely threat free(

Two of our first 3 goals were a direct result of Langford's vision and ability to see and hit creative kicks.

23 minutes ago, Redleg_Knowledge said:

You've got the hand of memes! I commend you for it!

Wait 'till I work out how to use the new chatgpt image generator.

[Insert image of Clark Kent and Superman debating loading in Studio Ghibli style here]

8 minutes ago, Redleg_Knowledge said:

Yes, we know you think you're the Clark Kent/Superman of Demonland old mate! No need to keep posting that!

1 minute ago, drdrake said:

We are trying to play a possession game, short 25 to 30m kicks, issue is we hit 2 miss the third everyone is out of position and the fast break the other way happens. We dont have good enough kicks to play this way, Viney, Langdon, Petracca, Oliver are all terrible kicks, they are your main ball winners.

Exactly right - well that's part of our plan.

We simply can't afford to have our best kicks not playing atm.

And in my opinion our best kicks are: Melk, Koz, McVee, Lindsay, Spargs, Windsor and Kolt - only one of whom played on the weekend (i'm not counting Lindsay given he was out of the game 2 mins into the game)

13 minutes ago, Redleg_Knowledge said:

Yeh, but that's the podcast and binman for you!

Stats are all that matters! Player ratings, statistics about workrate and a constant cycle of conversation around the demonland hot topics, 'fitness and injury'.

I suggest supporters look and listen to Jordan Lewis' observations from 'on the couch' the other night about us. Sums all there is to sum up in about 5 mins!

I fact, I'd implore the podcast panel to watch too if they haven't.

48 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

This shows effort isn't there. It shows they capitulate.

Something rotten in the State of Denmark

Pretty damming data.

Agree it shows the effort isn't there.

Of course, effort is in large part a mental thing - pushing through the pain barrier, working hard for your team and all that. And i don't want to give players an out, but to be honest my main concern is whether the drop off in effort is related to a relative lack of conditioning - that's to say we're not fit enough.

And if that's the case we are in a world of hurt - players can get their focus right pretty quick but not much can be done if they are not fit enough.

A disclaimer - I fully acknowledge this next comment is pure wish casting and could reasonably be construed as giving players an out. But its more a thought bubble than anything else.

If in fact we are not in optimal shape is there any likelihood that is by design?

By that i mean the orthodoxy has been teams are in their optimal shape come round one, and their condition diminishes until the mid-season bye when they fill up the tank again, so to speak.

But i wonder if the increasing aerobic demands mean high performance programs are being adjusted, and some teams are trialing different approaches.

The hawks and lions both started very slow last year (lions 0-3 and hawks 0-5) and in the lion's case there was commentary about their aging stars and being too slow. But they were arguably the clubs in the best condition come finals.

Long bow i know - and for the sake of argument if true i reckon a stupid move given early season wins are super important for us given all that has gone on.

On 29/03/2025 at 17:16, WheeloRatings said:

The Stats Files post looks a bit different now with the site update.

@WheeloRatings what's curious is your tables from the first two rounds look ok

Perhaps copy those tables and cut and paste in data for new matches with plain text?

On 29/03/2025 at 16:09, Jjrogan said:

Out: this absurb game plan of fast movement, handball chains and corridor with cringe worthy skills. Humiliation. Delusion that we can play this way.

In: contest defence, playing to the strengths of the playing list. winning by boredom. 4 points. respect.

Not going to happen so look away now.

I totally get this perspective.

However, it really captures the horns of a dilemma we find ourselves in as a club and a fan group.

The method you describe (one based on the tigers uber successful method) won us a flag in 2021 and made us extremely hard to beat in 2022 and 2023. The cats basically copied our approach to win the 2022 flag.

The success of that method resulted in McRae developing a game plan that would beat the zone defence our game plan was built on.

Mitchell, correctly reading where the game was going implemented similar method from the get-go at the hawks (and copped heaps when it translated into lots of big losses)

I think it fair to say it's universally accepted now the transition game is now the template for success. Which is where the horns of dilemma comes in:

• We can't win a flag with our old model

• To win a flag we need to adapt

History shows that implementing a new method is rarely an easy thing and usually involves lots of losses, not to mention frustration for fans (the pies are an interesting outlier).

We only need to look at our 2019 and 2021 seasons, particularly the former, for evidence of how hard it is to implement a new method (ironically, we went from a fast ball movement from the back half goody used in his first two seasons, to his D first zone defence system that won us a flag).

On 30/03/2025 at 12:44, Neil Crompton said:

Hey @binman , serious questions, can you please explain to me just what our game plan is supposed to be. Because what I’m seeing is just a mass of confusion and contradictions.

For example, the keeping’s off game down back is so slow that it allows the opposition time to flood back and block up any forward entry. There is no room for forwards to lead- hence we are always bombing to a pack. So that form of entry is self defeating surely.

Whatever it is, do you believe our game plan is suited to and is appropriate for today’s game style? What we are doing looks different to all other teams I’ve watched this year. And it certainly doesn’t look like it is a winning game plan so far.

Do you think it’s time for Goody to be honest and admit it’s not working and change our approach? Not easy, and there would be initial pain, but perhaps we’d see some light at the end of the tunnel There is certainly no light at present And the players look and are playing like they are none believers.

I know we have injuries to key players, but that doesn’t account for the unacceptable skill levels we are seeing, or the complete lack of awareness being shown (or lack of on field communication) by players with the ball, or simply the confusion demonstrated by the players on how to play the game.

They have had the whole preseason to get the game plan working Its now coming up to round 4, we are 0/3, and looking confused and utterly bereft of any shred of confidence. Do you feel that the players have lost confidence in the game plan and, by extension, Goody as well?

What, IYO, is the best way forward?

Thanks

G'day @Neil Crompton I saw this post.

When i get some time I'll respond

On 29/03/2025 at 18:50, jnrmac said:

Our last 11 games we have won clearance twice.

I'd say its a fairly important part of the game that we have dropped dramatically

Without checking, i assume you mean we've lost the raw clearance count 9 times in the last 11 games.

If yes, that would actually be pretty consistent with our numbers even when playing winning footy. Which is unsurprising given we bring one less to around stoppages (or did - have we been doing this season?).

Whilst important in terms of winning terrority, the key clearance related stat (j6stbahead of post clearance contested possession), particularly for us, is scores from clearances. We rarely lose that stat.

Unfortunately, in what is a real worry atm - the roos and suns both smashed us in scores from clearances.

32 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

Cleared of major damage.

Thank God for that

15 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Can you find this for me so I can clip it and play it on the show.

Yep.

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/1742795/rd-3-post-match-interview-max-gawn?videoId=1742795&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1743230614001

4 minutes ago, The Ox said:

there is something weird and drastically wrong here, a narrow "honourable" loss followed by two losses which by any measure cannot be explained away just through loss of form...give me a break, a strange cryptic post match interview from Max and not much better from S Goodwin, most of the senior players look totally disinterested, normally I'm pretty upbeat but not this time, thanks boys

It's funny you should comment on maxy's post match interview.

I literally just watched it and had a similar reaction- strange vibe.

I appreciateit's no doubt tough to do an interview after a loss like that, but I agree that there was a funky vibe.

15 hours ago, Redleg_Knowledge said:

Your words will fall on deaf ears. Some ppl on here just refuse to believe that there may be a reality out there that suggests we're not on the right path. And you're quoting the king of them!

1 hour ago, WheeloRatings said:

The Stats Files post looks a bit different now with the site update.

Very hard to read on a mobile

One of the worst, most infuriating losses i have seen live for a very long time.

10x worse than last week.

Made even more infuriating by what was the worst display of umpiring I have ever seen (though ro be clear it had no bearing on the result).

Fullarton playing very well.

Question:

What's better than the blues getting beaten and going down 0-3?

Answer:

Backing their opponent to win.

1 minute ago, Demonland said:

Certain words in and of themselves might not seem offensive. But when you call someone an [censored] they certainly get offended and that is what we are avoiding. Can't we all just [censored] get along.

Instead of [censored] can the new software add an appropriate euphemism instead.

So for example [censored] could be [Tom Morris].

Have you lost weight Andy? You look good.

4 minutes ago, JackLovesDees said:

Haven't been following the development of our new base much; however, can someone explain to me why we don't buy Waverley now that it's on the market? To me, it seems like a fair option since it just needs a refurbishment as well as being a far better location than Casey.