binman
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Posts posted by binman
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3 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:
Just listened to Richo on SEN.
He didn’t say this in so many words but it felt as though there’s a concession from the club that we’ve overreacted from our 2 finals (where we dominated in either scoring shots or entries) and that we’re quite frankly struggling to adapt to a game plan focused on connectivity.
Be interesting if we’ve drawn a line in the sand of if we persist with whatever we’re doing.
We are a curious mob, us passionate footy fans
Many dees fans are hoping we go back to a game plan that last year many hated and wanted to see the back of.
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Huge game.
With our insipid performance last week we have put ourselves under huge pressure - both in terms of our effort levels being rightfully knocked all week and the need for the four points.
But the pies also desperately need a win to keep in touch with the 8.
We played poorly in our previous losses, but the freo game was different.
Understanably, there has been some strong comments and condemnation on dl this week.
But i dont take anything from last week in terms of our game plan, sytems, personel and lines.
Apply that level of effort and any meaningful analysis is superfluous.
But this is goody's 8th season as coach and that was the only time under goody that we appeared to give up.
They have earned the benefit of the doubt.
But they get that benefit just once.
I'm super excited.
I am firmly of the view that in terms of method our plan is to revert to our normal method, with improvements to our turnover game, come the end of the season.
I think we will revert to that model today. Forward half, contest based, win the inside 50 count football (and go back to a more transition based game against the roos).
Basically the same model we employed the last time we played the pies.
And I suspect we have long set ourselves for this game, and planned accordingly in terms of our high performance program.
I hope I'm right. We will know if I am pretty early I reckon.
Dees by 27.
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3 hours ago, Wells 11 said:
The only reason I can think of that this doesn’t happen is it’s for internal eyes only ie a place clubs look fr an edge over other teams. So high performance managers while critical and, as you rightly point out, who DO have a big impact on apparantly strange results, are secretive of their methods. Even so, I’m with you, you’d think more people would at least be asking questions of them.
I also think the days when it’s being ignored are numbered.
Agree with all of the above.
Though I'd add another couple of factors as to why it is not discussed more
- the AFL and its broadcast partners prefer the illusion that every game starts with a level playing field, so to speak, and each game will be a cracker
- the culture in footy of not wanting to be seen to be making any 'excuses' for poor performances.
100% with your final point. Fatigue is now regularly discussed during games and commentators are alluding to the impact of increased training loads.
And coaches are starting to be asked about it. Just one example - in goody's last presser he was explicitly asked if a factor in the freo performance was increased 'training load'. And I promise it wasn't me.
It's getting pretty hard to ignore as a factor, particularly around the bye period, with the game having become so challenging aerobically- ie when teams can't cover the ground they are toast.
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2 minutes ago, layzie said:
I think it was more that there's two things contributing to performance, one that no-one at all disputes and one that a lot of people dispute.
Indeed.
That was a follow on from a comment I made the previous week, and without that context might have been confusing.
My point was in relation to suggesting load management and/or fatigue as a possible causal factor to help understand a poor performance (for example several this round) being framed as making an excuse for the poor performance
Whereas I have been saying our poor kicking has been a causal factor in our poor performances for years (and unfortunately still is)- and not once has anyone on DL suggested when I do so that i'm excusing a poor performance.
Why?
Because poor kicking being a factor is an accepted fact. And for some the impact of load management is not.
It's in the voodoo realm and like injuries is never to be raised after a loss by coaches, players and fans lest, quelle horror, they are seen to be making 'excuses'.
By the by there is an intersecting intersection between the impact of increased load and kicking skills......
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40 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:
I don't want the Cats to win, given it's our best chance at making top 4 for them to lose, however this shows me how ridiculous the AFL fixturing is. Swans have had two byes already and the Cats haven't had any. The Swans look so fresh and the Cats are cooked and just hanging in there.
The AFL are a joke the way they run the fixture.
The AFL put the fix into fixture.
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Ugh.
At least the cats lost
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Burn the clock swans!
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It's a fine balance.
I want the swans to win. But by no more than 22 points!
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17 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:
I feel like using the evenness of the competition is giving this group an excuse. The coach and players have already come out and said last week was unacceptable, even Lever said in an interview that complacency has seeped into the group. I absolutely expect a fierce response tomorrow and hopefully it continues on after the bye.
Totally agree last week was unacceptable.
We played poorly in our previous losses, but the freo game was different.
This is goody's 8th season as coach and that was the only time under goody that we appeared to give up.
They have earned the benefit of the doubt.
Tommorow is a huge game. Huge.
As you say a fierce response is non negotiable.
Anything less and we are in trouble.
But if we do play fierce, and win, and as you say also come out firing post bye, then we will be in pretty good shape.
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6 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:
Neither of them lost to the Eagles or by 90pts though.
Well, nor did we.
But if you are making comparisons, we haven't lost four on end.
And the cats were every bit as bad in that loss to the suns as we were against the dockers.
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15 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:
Puddy Tats all over the Swannies
Good. i backed them at the line.
Tis the season for wacky results.
By, the by, comimg into this game the cats have lost 4 in a row, including having had 160 points on them by the suns (who couldn't manage 50 points in their loss to the saints last night).
The giants have lost four of their last 5.
Is anyone writing either team off?
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41 minutes ago, monoccular said:
binman - I haven’t watched any games this weekend but looked at the current scores and thought exactly the same as you predicted. Bizarre.
Do different clubs load differently ??🤔🤔🤗According to Libby Birch, it sounds as if collectivey clubs are taking a different approach to their high performance programs this year.
And then there is individual program differences- eg the cats model of managing players ad opposed to ours of not doing so.
But I was more referring to the bye period.
Every year for the last 5 years or so there are crazy results around the mid point of the season.
A big factor is the accumulative fatigue all teams experience at the half way point of the season.
Another is the aforementioned differences in programs, including when they do a big block of intensity and density and how they manage the bye period.
It's all made worse by the AFL's greed. They should go back to all teams having their bye at the same time.
But that ain't gonna happen because the AFL, nor fox and 7, dont want a football free weekend.
So instead we have the ridiculous situation of byes being spread over several weeks meaning it's all over the place in terms of when teams play each other - eg, both coming off a bye, only one coming off a bye, one team not yey having their bye and the other 2 weeks post bye etc etc.
And this year it's even more absurd with the teams playing in OR having 2 byes.
It is just ridiculous.
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On 06/06/2024 at 14:02, Bring-Back-Powell said:
Best results for the Dees in the event we win (operative word being event):
Richmond to beat Adelaide
Brisbane to beat Dogs
Hawthorn to beat GWS
North to beat West Coast
St Kilda to beat GC
Sydney to beat Geelong.
Carlton to beat Essendon
Incidentally that multi is paying $349 - 1
I accidentally posted this comment in the pre game thread instead of this one:
Tis the season for wacky results.
You are three from three so far - and the roos are 8 points up just before half time.
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Tis the season for wacky results.
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56 minutes ago, Demonland said:
An interesting interview with some good questions - a couple of which goody did the classic politician strategy of answering without actually addressing the substantive part of the question.
I always find those examples interesting for what the subtext might be.
By the by, it annoys me when media people ask a question with muriple elements, or ask several questions at once.
It allows the interviewee to cherry pick which element or question they want to answer - and more significantly the which ones they want to ignore (although that choicr can be instructive).
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2 hours ago, Watson11 said:
We have picked apart a few sides in the last 2 years that play the back half rebound game through applying forward half pressure (Collingwood, Geelong).
Maybe a question for next weeks pod, but do you think we are even easier to pick apart when we play this new gameplan because we have don't have line-breaking speed in our back 6, and our footskills are middle of the road. It seems that forward half pressure is our new Achilles heel.
Good questions - 'll make sure we cover in the pies pod.
But a short version of my response is yes, yes, yes, agree.
And i think there are a couple of other factors, which I'll save for the pod
As I said on the pod I suspect we might revert to our forward half method on Monday as there is a lot riding on the game.
And interestingly, the pies, who for the first 5-6 games were playing a front half game (I think because they were not fit enough yet to play their turnover, transition).
But since then have reverted to their turnover, transition game - its no coincidence they look way fitter and are covering the ground better.
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15 minutes ago, Demonland said:
I'm saving it for our loss to the Kangaroos post Bye.
😱
If we are anywhere near as insipid on Monday as we were on Sunday then even my optimism will take a terminal hit.
Hello darknesses, my old friend.....
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2 hours ago, DemonWA said:
Loved the pod as usual.
#trigger warning for @binman but staggered to hear him cite the Buckley clip as almost a smoking gun Re loading implications though.
To me the Buckley quote was around a view that the players were not afl standard body shape/skinfolds. A fairly damning view and a completely different aspersion (and far more critical) to an observation that would lead to the view that the players were hyper fatigued from a loading block.
Body shape and fitness are (to me) things that are worked on predominantly during the preseason. Loading/tapering is about refining for optimal performance, not loosing significant Skinfolds or getting upto an afl standard fitness base imo.
Looking forward to the victory pod next week
Perhaps I was unclear.
I wasn't citing Buckley's comments as evidence of being hyper fatigued from a loading block.
I was agreeing with him that we are not at optimal fitness.
Which is why I cited it as a possible explanation for our week to week, inconsistency and inability to play 4 good quarters.
Perhaps that lack of fitness was exacerbated by a heavier training block, but I doubt it. More likely just the normal accumulative fatigue all teams are impacted by at the half way mark of the season, particularly those clubs, like us, with a ot of young regular best 22 players.
I wonder whether it is partly by design ie plan to develop their fitness as the season goes on with the goal of minimising the impacts of training so hard for 6 months that perhaps makes it too hard to be in peak shape in September
And there is no doubt the impact of having mutiple players in the team off interrupted preseasons who still clearly are not fully fit yet is having an impact- but are choosing to play them anyway (which intersects with the philosophy I'm wondering about above).
As George noted, quoting Libby birch in the age article about the spate of injuries and demands of the game, and length of season, clubs are having to change their high performance programs and are training hard in multiple blocks.
For example the pies were def not in optimal shape for the first 5 weeks or so, as evidenced by their method and results, and there was a suggestion that was by design.
And that staggered approach might help explain why the cats and giants can look like world beaters for the first 7 weeks of the season then lose 4 and 3 games in a row respectively and look mid table teams.
Or help explain why the dogs suddenly look so much more dynamic
That's the glass half full take.
The other possibility of course is that they have got the program wrong and/or the players have not done the work.
If the latter is the case we are toast.
Either way, as I noted on the pod the Selwyn and the high performance team deserve scrutiny - scrutiny they are not getting much of on demonland.
I'm of the view that the high performance manager is almost as important, perhaps even more important, than the coach in terms of a team's chances of winning a flag.
And should be critiqued accordingly.
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1 hour ago, Demon Dynasty said:
Not so far fetched.
Garry 'Bull' Baker ('74' - '81') brought some house bricks to training on occasions and used to run laps with one in each hand
After seeing this, my brother, myself and others in our mad grog squad group thereafter referred to him as 'Bricks' Baker!
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What a horror show.
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6 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:
I heard him say this and wondered the exact same thing. I’d call it a Freudian slip. He looks at the Dees with disdain and it shows in a subjective ‘observation’ like this.
Agree, though he is a flip flopper par excellence - he was raving about us after the port win, and again after rolling the crows 5 days later.
Nek minnit.....
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I've done well to avoid David King for most of tgis season.
I just had a reminder why.
On the fox pre coverage King declares the dees 'have been credited with performances they don't necessarily deserve'
What the flying does that actually mean?
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Battle of the backlines: Where the Demons-Dockers clash will be won - https://www.afl.com.au/news/1141258
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This article is exactly the sort of analysis I wish there more of.
It extensively quotes 'an opposition team analyst with experience planning for both teams'.
Really good insight, and it uses stats and data in support of a thesis as opposed to data being used in isolation, as is usually the case, as if in isolation data explains causality.
Data is the equivalent of symptoms for a doctor trying to diagnose a patients health issue.
Symptoms are not causal factors - they provide evidence, particularly when triangulated and/or aggregated, of the undelying health issue (eg fever, chills, muscle ache suggest the patient flu might have the flu).
By the by, one symptom noted in the article provides evidence that does not support the diagnosis from Doctor Demon Myths that our midfield is a major concern:
'For the Demons, their major strength is limiting opposition scores from clearance (25.0 points, ranked No.1)'
POSTGAME: Rd 13 vs Collingwood
in Melbourne Demons
Posted
The pressure numbers were appalling.
It's worth noting that pressure points are the weighed sum of pressure acts.
Physical pressure acts are worth 3.75 points, closing acts are worth 2.25 points, chasing acts are 1.5 points and corralling are 1.2.
I say worth noting because we were plus 23 for contested ball, which suggests we were OK in the contest - although down 20 less tackles cuts against that.
But I'll bet if there is was a breakdown of the numbers we would have been hopeless for chasing and closing acts.
That lack of pressure was a huge reason they were able to have free players to hit up on transition
I think we are cooked physically and desperate for the bye. Which, I'd true, would result in a drop off in pressure.
But there's a huge mental factor in being able to maintain pressure to a reasonable standard, even when fatigued ie pushing through. We didn't do that yesterday. And worryingly there was a lot of finger pointing and hiping teammates would cover spread. And there was almost zero third man in defensively.