binman

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

"since i left you" is the greatest oztrayan album of all time

Totally agree.

I reckon it's certainly the most influential in terms of its impact on music internationally.

DJ shadow's endtroducing and since i left you changed the use of sampling from hooks and background effects in dance tracks and hip hop to being an instrument in its own right.

Both stand up still too.

Fun fact - Madonna has never approved one of her songs being sampled, until allowing avalanches to sample holiday on that album.

Which was crazy because at the time avalanches weren't even.a thing. Just some unknown guys Australia recording an.album that at the time had no applicable genre

I think ink I'm right in saying it's still the only sample Madonna has approved.

Avalanches recent music is awesome too by the by.

1 hour ago, BLWNBA said:

It's absolutely beautiful watching Cornes et al. make adult fanboys have an absolute meltdown. 

It's also quite fun watching self styled iconoclasts unable to resist the need to make such comments.

'oh you silly fan boys you are all so silly taking the bait.

It doesnt bother me of course that you do, but i'm a rugged individual above such ridiculousness and I find you all so funny'

I mean, seriously, other people critising cornes rings your bell so much you feel the need to post about your discomfort (dressed up as derision)?

You seemingly have no insight into  the irony and contradiction at work here.

20 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Where do these jackasses masquerading as “journalists” get off with their gaslighting the Melbourne Football Club?

Clayton Oliver is a little over halfway through his career and yet, has already been winner of the Keith “Bluey” Truscott Trophy for Melbourne’s club champion for an equal number of times (four) including in our only premiership season in the past six decades. 

We can run our club and look after our own when they’ve gone through tough times without taking advice from the clowns on that program who quite frankly need to be better at their jobs than they are at trying to be sensational.

Had they been doing that, then they might have noticed how well Simon Goodwin has managed his player given the difficulties he had to face over the second half of last season and the disrupted preseason he endured this year. Clarry’s still important enough for opposing coaches to find the need to put heavy tags on him and sometimes it works. Mostly, it doesn’t because Clarry is that good.

The simpletons on Footy Classified somehow managed to miss how Goody kept him on the bench in the early goings against the Bombers (he had only one touch in the first quarter). Yet by half time Clarry had added 10 possessions to his tally and by the end of the game, he had 25 disposals (75% of game time) which put him at the club’s equal third ball gatherer behind Ed Langdon (100%) and Trent Rivers (67%). Sure, his disposal efficiency was down but it was wet and someone who plays the way he does at a frenetic tempo is never going to hit every target. He gained 392 metres on the night, second only to Rivers. 

Not long after the siren, it was pleasing to see who Goody was embracing and slapping on the back. Clarry of course because his was a significant contribution to the team’s win.

I’m looking forward to more and better from Clarry over the rest of 2024 and even more so in the years to come when he’ll be able to put in the hard yards over the summer time, add a 5th & 6th Bluey and maybe a premiership or two and we can sit back and watch Cormes and co eat humble pie over their stupidity.

The footy media is a complete joke. 

As is the coverage of games.

Those two things intersected on Saturday night.

It was a text book example of woeful coverage and how the paper thin standard of 'reporting' leads to misinformation - misinformation skewed to make people, in this case clarry, look bad and gin up some faux controversy.

I couldn't make the game because I was sick, so had to watch the game on TV. 

At the start of the second quarter Ling proclaims that clarry only had one possession and said he thinks (but implied he did) Goody gave clarry a bake at quarter time and challenged him to lift.

That gets repeated through the coverage and morphs into a statement of fact.

Clarry gets going and the implication is he is responding positively to the bake.

Straight after the game Rivers is interviewed and is asked about the bake Goody gave clarry at quarter time. 

Riv looks genuinely perplexed and says hw didn't realise goody had given clarry a bake, and talked abour how hard clarry worked.

Given Rivers is actually in the quarter time huddle you'd think he know if goody got stuck into clarry.

It's not 'till next day that I learn on demonland that clarry had spent a big part of the first quarter on the bench, seemingly as part of a  successful strategy to help ensure he runs out the game. 

Did anyone bother to check his minutes on the bench, data they actually include in the coverage?

So clarry not given a bake, nor challenged to lift and not responding to that challenge when he racks up 25 odd disposals in the next 3 quarters. 

His game wasn't part of some peurile redemption, heroes and villans narrative the football media is obsessed with.

The losers in this patethetic high school patomine?

Clarry gets another wack from the media - he's miles off it, and needs a boot up the bum to get going. 

Goody gets no credit for the clever use of clarry to maximise his impact when the whips are cracking in the last quarter (noting we have struggled to run out games).

But most of all football fans who are fed bulltish and treated like fools. 

8 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Which Pod is this mate?

The Demonland pod.

See top of page.

On 17/07/2024 at 15:16, Blistering said:

Well done to all contributors.

I do have a question for @binman and that is, does he think that Melbourne's best football is better than that of Fremantle?

Good question.

Yes, is the short answer.

Using the theory the first third of the season gives us a more accurate read of form than the middle third, this was the ladder after round 8 

(Note: we had a much tougher fixture and schedule than Freo. And it's also worth noting like us they also lost to west coast - but it was round six so mid season loads not a factor)

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Agreed.

He has Salem's skill, IQ  and toughness with TJ's gracefulness and skill.

And he has a sidestep and speed to get thru traffic better than both of them.

He is an awesome 😍 recruit.

And like you, I'm happy for mcvee to stay at half back.

One, he really is a brilliant defender. He reads the ball super well, backs himself in to beat his opponent to the ball, really good one on one and is surprisingly strong in the contest.

But perhaps of most importance is how important his brilliant kicking is out of defence, one because it creates scoring chains but also he doesn't turn the ball over in our back half.

Moving daicos on ball has hurt the pies I reckon. He is brilliant in the middle of course, but they have sorely missed his kicking out of defence and how calm he was in the back half.

Def one of the factors as in their turnover, transition game falling of a cliff.

Mcvee is our daicos. 

Use AMW as the lock down small defender, freeing Judd to be a dangerous high half back flankers.

23 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I really agree with this.  Some teams have one of their very best players in that role.  Lachie Witfield (GWS) and Hayden Young (Freo) come to mind.

He would probably make a very good midfielder but he may be more valuable where he is especially once Salem slows.

He reminds me of TJ, effortlessly glides over the surface.  He has great vision which really helps in hitting targets.

 

TJ is a great comparison in terms of how he moves and his ball use.

I reckon mcvee is a bit more hard at it than TJ.

Judd's baby face belies his toughness.

3 hours ago, middleagedemon said:

I think your memory deceives you. 

For there where games we'd lose and you'd point to 'fatigue' due to the loading phase we were in. Yet there were also games you'd expect us to bounce from, which we'd end up losing all the while still looking 'fatigued'. 

The level of tediousness came down to how you seemed to pick and choose depending on our performances and how those performances would line up to where you believed our loading phase should be across a season. And then the pile on began. 

I think we can all admit that loading is a thing. But to measure just how much of an influence it has game-to-game is almost pointless given the multitude of factors that force results. This especially so given that some teams are still able to win even in a 'loading' phase. 

That's the biggest load of old cobblers I've ever read.

But illuminating - the penny has just dropped.

Couldn't stay away huh?

That's funny.

Timing's right.

Pop up when we start losing.

Alas, like clock work the good form and wins return.

So I guess you be leaving soon.

In the meantime, see ya.

26 minutes ago, rpfc said:

My main frustration with the ‘loading conversation’ was how myopic it became in the affirmative. In 2022 I was trying to point out that we have changed (ruined?) our game style to protect our mids (long bombs into the pocket) and last year that we needed to up our transition game to compete with the best. 

And yet this place was just having this binary fascination with a sports physiology preparation technique that most teams employ; I’m seeing ‘noise’ in the data and with my eyes because we are in a loading phase of the season.

By the by, credit where it is due. 

Goody has embraced the transition model you discussed way back 2022.

And iirc you also were strong on the physical challenge of the model we used week in week out - which I think is arguably the biggest factor in our changed method - keep the troops fresher for finals and not so banged up.

36 minutes ago, rpfc said:

My main frustration with the ‘loading conversation’ was how myopic it became in the affirmative. In 2022 I was trying to point out that we have changed (ruined?) our game style to protect our mids (long bombs into the pocket) and last year that we needed to up our transition game to compete with the best. 

And yet this place was just having this binary fascination with a sports physiology preparation technique that most teams employ; I’m seeing ‘noise’ in the data and with my eyes because we are in a loading phase of the season.

I hear what you are saying rp, but one of my major frustrations about the discussion is what I see as a complete myth that it was a 'binary fascination' and that those who were wanting to discuss were implying it was the only factor.

People such as myself, and several others I could point to, have been at pains to clarify that it not an excuse and there are any number of other factors in the mix (for example tactics, method, psychology, form et etc)

And besides such voices were, and remain, decidedly in the minority so were hardly shutting down conversation about the topics you note.

But I do agree the discussion became tedious, and I am as much to blame for that ss anyone, so I'll go back to not discussing it. 

6 hours ago, Roost it far said:

I know loading is a dirty word around here but it fits our formline. Cameron Ling on the ABC Sunday pre coverage talked about clubs in the hunt putting in a serious block of training mid year and then tapering off coming into finals so as to be cherry ripe. He mentioned the risk is you likely cop some losses along the way. It could also easily explain Carlton and Sydney's drop off of late. 

It fits our form line for the fourth year in a row.

When I first started discussing load management in 2021 it's fair to say I copped a fair bit.

What's crazy is ive copped it every year since - so much so that I barely raise it anymore because I can't be bothered getting pilloried.

(It's ironic actually because many of the posters lampooning and shutting down such conversations complain any criticisms of the club they make are policed and shut down  - cue the face palm and vomit emojis)

Crazy because you would have to actively ignore the evidence to be so wilfully ignorant. 

I recall mutiple posters, even in the face of iffrefutable evidence, say they won't believe loading happens (which morphed for many into, maybe a factor but.....) until a coach or ex player comes out and says it happens. 

Ok, well it's starting now to be discussed by such people.

Good to hear Cameron Ling come out and discuss it.

Del Santo alluded to it on the ABC in the early part of the season, saying it's all about playing your best footy in August and using the tapering for the olympics as an ananlogy

Hopefully next season the discussion about high performance programs and load management  can move from being a 'dirty word',  or a running Demonland joke, to a nuanced discussion that factors in load management into the analysis of our performances. 

And as I've noted it might also open up discussions like the different high performance philosophies (manage and rotate, no rotation, squads, play through niggles etc) and an analysis of our high performance program.

One benefit would be less of the hair on fire, the sky is falling, play the kids, we are a joke, sack goody, it's all about 2025 etc etc that dominates Demonland for a couple of months in the middle of every season.

I mean, sure I skew positive, but some of the takes on where we were at coming into the bye, and even after our WIN against the Roos, have already proved to be utterly ridiculous - even if we don’t go on to push for a flag.

Silly, vibes based, emotive stuff - but barely commented on, let alone anyone getting called on it

Yet I make any reference to the impact of load management on performances like our last game against freo, and i'm ridiculed, with the subtext being, please no mote talk about loading - effectively shutting the conversation down.

22 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Binman calling him Skinner haha classic

Aka Skinner- Bell.

8 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

Play keepings off.  At least for a half. Frustrate the heck out of them.  Drain the clock as much as possible. High possession, high mark, low pressure game.

Not only is this our best chance of nullifying their strengths, the last thing we need is a high pressure, stoppage and slog fest in the West, drop the game and then back up for a 6 day break against the Giants the following week coming off a 7 day break.   We have a real chance to win the following three games if we manage this one well. 

Disagree.

Smash them off the park with high intensity pressure and contest.

Do what we did against the bombers after the first quarter and:

• really press up on them to deny them time and space
• work super hard to cover their switches to make sure they can't play on and have to hold it up
• anticipate their handball chains and press up hard on likely receivers and smash them
• suffocate and discombobulate them 
• Force turnovers and make them pay

Easy week on the track into the Giants game and go again.

46 minutes ago, Maxie said:

An interesting stat or a boomer with too much time on his hands? But….. we have played Freo and lost in three games at almost the exact time of the season since 2022.  Round 11 in both ‘22 & ‘23 and round 12 this year. I remember going to the MCG games and noting how cooked we seemed. Round 12 at the Alice was like watching a team with concrete in their boots. Binman’s loading theory looking sound. 

 

It's not really a theory as such.

56 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

Goodwin said at the start of the season that in 2023 we started like a train and limped home. The 'learnings' from that, were that the team would be primed to finish the season strongly rather than start. The way we are playing at the moment it looks like it's going to plan - eg. Windsor looked cooked a few weeks ago and now is playing brilliant footy. The players, with few exceptions, look fit and fresh.

Only one team has won a premiership at that ground too!

 

As a generalisation, the form of teams in the weeks leading into their bye, and in the one or two weeks after their bye should be ignored. 

As a footy punter it is a treacherous period and I tread warily.

But it does throw up some real value as many punters think of form in terms of week to week performances or blocks of 2 games.

So port are great value against the Dogs because in their previous 2 games they got absolutely thrashed by the lions and scrapped in against the saints.

And so are terrific value at the line at home against the dogs, who had been in good form.

Port thrash the dogs and so people jump off the dogs and they are therefore great value at the line against the blues.

But we are now passed that phase and form is now more trustworthy.

The way to think about this game is not how we played last time we met the dockers but what our best football looks like versus their best football.

The same can be applied to all matches from here on in. The first 6-7 rounds give the best guide, injuries notwithstanding.

As I've noted, I don't bet on dees games, but if I did I would launched into us at the line against the bombers because our best football is better than that of the bombers.

7 minutes ago, bing181 said:

6 months managing/rehabbing a serious foot injury and missing the pre-season will do that to you.

And backing up week after week as a big marking target at AFL level.

13 hours ago, Stevienic23 said:

This is your typical Essendon supporter. Gone the early crow at qtr time when they were 1 point up. They think they're better than who & what they are. We may not be that good but christ we haven't allowed Dyson Heppell to play 250 games for us!

 

The sad thing is I'm pretty confident there was almost exactly the same post in the DL game day thread. 

11 hours ago, Hatchman said:

Umpiring was terrible but I thought we were as lucky in the first quarter, as Essendon were in the last with a number of questionable decisions so I guess it evened out. 

Essendons ability to put scoreboard pressure was their biggest problem, would have been a different game if they kicked straight

This game may become a turning point, not for this year, but next as our young talent is now really making it's mark and we should be able to put a much better team on the field next year

Agree we got away with a couple in tge first.

I'd be ropeable if I was a bombers fan with that non mark straight in front. A mark every day of tge week.

It was crucial too because they were on top and really needed to take advantage of the momentum when they had it.

Game would have looked different if they had a 3 goal lead at quarter time instead of one point.

4 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

I think between 2019 & 2023 we had the best list.

 

Yes we had Omac and some other guns, but it is patently absurd to suggest out 2019 list was the best in the AFL.

I don't mean to knock these blokes but we had the following fringe players in and round our best 22: Vanderburg, Weed, Jay Kennedy Harris, Hore, Oskar Baker, Corey Wagner, Jay Lockhadrt, Frosty, Billy Stretch - not mention players like Kade Kolodjashnij and Aaron Nietschke who couldn't get on the park) for the sake of argument lets say you are right.

You may also recall that we had a horror run with injury in 2019 and went into full experimental mode early on - playing Fritter at half and developing the Goodwin contest territory game for example.

But for the sake of argument lets run with your opinion we had the best list for five seasons (i'm assuming your posting history reflects this opinion).

Strength of the list is absolutely a key factor in the chances of winning a flag. But injury and luck are arguably even more important. Given that, every single club would take one flag from five.

Anyway cranky, i'm really not sure why I'm bothering responding to your silliness. I will go back to just reading your random troll bites and having a quiet chuckle.

Keep doing you.

30 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

Playing devils advocate I am surprised clubs do not rotate players more during the season.

For Non-Victorian teams (WA in particular) travelling every second week have to contend with the proven fatigue of long-haul flights in combination with the demands of the sport. It seems not allowing players to be "resting" forwards or defenders has almost becoming unforgiving and presents a challenge to AFL high-performance teams to plan recovery sessions to ease the burden of players.

For older players injury risk also increases (ie: Max Gawn) and perhaps clubs need to forward plan during preseason to give players rest at specific times during the season to reduce fatigue and also mange there ongoing loading/training requirements?

Some clubs absolutely do exactly that ie manage players, particularly older players - Geelong being the best example.

The cats have done so in earnest since their premiership season. All their older players are rotated and managed.

Burgess and Griffith seemingly have a different philosophy, and play the same core of players through the fatigue.

Though goody did mention a few weeks ago they planned to rest maxy if they were in a position to do so. Funnily enough the decision had been taken out of their hands.

It's worth noting that even if they did manage a senior player tbat player would still have to a full match load on top of normal  training to ensure they maintained the right levels. 

9 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Those Essendon junk time goals probably skew a few of the key stat areas as well, as we again appeared to run out of gas. 

For sure, partic goals from turnover 

I'm not so sure we did run out of gas. Well maybe a bit (though not the to the same degree as against tjhe liuns and roos) - which i think we just have to accept with such a young team.

And i was amazed the so called experts didn't point out that we were off  a six day break to their 8  - Melk sure did in a post match interview when asked about recovering from his first game back after 12 months.  

I reckon we lost momentum with those two quick goals and couldn't get it back. The umpiring handed the bombers that momentum. I was quietly pleased we didn't give up any more goals. 

4 hours ago, Binmans PA said:

My watch for the rest of the year is on our ground ball game. Another +15 result this week in ground ball gets. Our turnaround in form has coincided with starting to smash teams in this stat.

Interestingly, we won most of our games earlier in the year losing this stat consistently, but as a rule, across 2021-2023, ground ball gets were a really good indicator of victory.

I saw the ground ball stat and refected on your point about going from losing the differential to winning it in the last few weeks.

In 2021-23 ground ball gets were one of key indicators.

Seemed to be less significant in a transition game as were winning games early this season despite handily losing ground ball.

Contest is key to both methods, and we really dialled up our attack on the ball.

It looked liked our best contest footy of 2021-23, but much better on transition 2024 style. 

That's the hybrid goody is trying to develop I reckon ie a blend of the territory and transition games.

I heard goody say the youth of the team is a factor in terms of how they want to play.

Which makes sense given even with no gus or smithy we still have a core of excellent senior players who are strong in the contest and hard at.

But also have young players like Mcvee, Windsor, Kolt, Bowey and AMW with good wheels we want out in space (though fortunately all are had at in the contest too).

That said, even with the hybrid model being perhaps less contest heavy games are still super taxing. Particularly for the young blokes.

Must be some challenge to get the program right.

13 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Not having a grasp on selection, he doesn’t have a grasp on modern footy

I edited my original post.

My first draft was little less diplomatic.

1 minute ago, John Demonic said:

The Binman Rubbish Dump?

Not bad.

I could recycle all my pet hates and bad jokes.

5 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

You seem to be ignoring the issue of the talent the coach has. I'd argue that over the last 4-6 years the consensus among media and supporters is that Melbourne has the best list in the comp.

The best defence, the best ruckman, the best midfield and some reasonable forwards.

Richmond with a less talented list delivered 3 flags.

We were disappointing in 2017, poor in 2019 & 2020 & stuffed it up in 2022.

Not your best work cranky.

I mean, not even I thought we had the best list six years ago!

Stick to the surreally ridiculous.

A question.

Do YOU think we have had the best list in the last 4-6 years?