Slartibartfast

I beg to differ. I can't confirm or deny these rumours, and that's all they are, regarding coming back in poor condition. And even if they did come back underdone much of that is able to be made up in the preseason. But here is what I do know: These players were in discussions for our best 22 this season:- B: Jetta May Lever HB: Salem OMac Hibberd ? Harmes Oliver Fritsch HF: Petracca Weid ANB F: Melksham TMac Spargo R: Gawn Brayshaw Viney I: Kolo, Jones, AVB, J Smith Others: Hannan, Preuss, Lewis, Stretch, Frost, Hore That's 28 players that I would have expected to form the basis of the team for the season. You can take off and add some of your own but it won't change the arguments below. These players had significantly interrupted Preseasons (17): Jones, Harmes, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney Jetta, May, Lever, Hibberd, Melksham, TMac, Kolo, Hannan, Hore, OMac and Stretch These players had Injury ruined seasons after a good PS (3): Weideman, AVB, JSmith, These players had a full PS and good run at season (8): Salem, Fritsch, ANB, Spargo, Gawn, Preuss, Frost, Lewis I'm working from memory so you can correct me on some of the detao;s but the facts are compelling. 17 or our best 28 players had significantly interrupted PS's and three others had significantly disrupted seasons. It really wouldn't have mattered if they were a bit underdone at the start of PS. Of the 8 players who had a good go at it only Salem, Fritsch, Gawn and Frost were definite best 22 for me and some will add Lewis. That's 4 players and not one midfielder. Now fitness aside, is it any wonder connection from backs to forwards through the midfield was awful. Why? Because they didn't practice over the PS. Is it any wonder our skill level was awful. Why? Because we had a whole lot of NQR players in the team and many who didn't practice over the preseason. The preseason was the issue not the off season, which may have been garnish to the PS issues but it certainly not the steak.

Hey Pennant, read you PM's.

They were at the city road end when I went in preseason around the end of January.

Fritta did the full session training with the mids from memory. Rawlings was with the forwards as they did the goal kicking which consisted of boundary line snaps and kicking to the front of the goal square from 50 out on the boundary. May didn't train with the forwards. Jetts did the full session but as for playing AFL or VFL I've no idea. I'd play him AFL if he's fit enough but really I've no more idea on that or the other changes than anyone else.

Full session. Looked good.

Let's cut to the chase - Gawn did the full session. Rehab - T Smith, Billy, Tom Sparrow, Melk. Billy was running laps and still looks a while away, Tommy and Melk doing some kicking and TSmith mainly running from what I saw but I was a little late. Unsighted: TMac, Hore, Neita, Walker, JSmith, AVB, KK, Garlett The rest all appeared to do the whole session. A real mix of drills, three quarter ground drills, centre clearance work, goal kicking for the forwards, specialist ruck, high marking for the talls, spoiling for Jetts, specie practice for Hannan. I had a good look at Dunkley and liked what I saw. Good by foot and clean hands. Other than that just a normal training session.

A bit like yourself BBO!

Oliver TMac Jones Fritsch Harmes Salem

I think the club leaked the information. It was reported after our disastrous start to the season when media, the footy community and most importantly the fan were focusing so strongly on our failures. Some deflection was needed. Goodwin refused to give his players an excuse publicly, he didn’t want to give them an out and rightly so. It’s a little like injuries. We all know they have a huge impact but we don’t use them as an excuse. So we leaked this information to release the pressure and educate people as to why we were performing poorly. It was a smart and sensible thing to do. I can’t be bothered debating those who think our disastrous preseason is nothing but an excuse only to say if preseasons weren’t important why have one? A poor preseason impacts fitness, skills, connection, confidence, game plan and yes, results. To deny that just denies logic. We’ve all heard a hundred time players who have had great seasons say you can’t do it without a great preseason. But what would they know? Our preseason is probably not the only thing that has gone wrong but in my opinion it’s the core reason. You can cover up a lot of things but preseason’s and injury you can’t.

What happens when the majority of your best 22 players don't have preseasons? Their skill drop off because you haven't trained them or practised them. When your skills drop off your confidence drops off. Confidence is above the shoulders. Poor preseasons clearly impact confidence, particularly when so many players are impacted. I'd contend that many of our "above the shoulders" stem from a poor preseason. And anyway how can you say all our issues are above the shoulders when you've said losing AVB, Melksham and Jetts hasn't helped? Misson reports to the Board we've had a terrible preseason and we will struggle. He was right.

Our 2019 is dead as most here agree. And most are advocating that we plan for next season now. So why wouldn't we practice our game plan for next season now with a team as close as we can to the one we think will play next season? IMO it's why Hannan, Lever and others have played when prima facie they haven't really been ready.

I understand the frustration that goes with players like Smith and AVB getting injuries and not playing this year and certainly there always seems a need on this site to find a scapegoat. But don't people understand the stupidity of diagnosing a players injuries from a distance with little or no knowledge of the medical history of the player or the sequence of events leading to an injury. Do people really think that it's all Dave Misson's fault? Do you think that after over a decade in his role he would make a blatantly stupid decision about a players health and risk a long term injury for a JLT match? I know many here blame Misson and think he's stupid but to me the boot is firmly on the other foot.

I've avoided joining this debate but in response to Goodwin saying “Sam Weideman’s game shouldn’t be underestimated. It’s probably one of the better six possession games I’ve seen from a key forward,”. Your response was: ??? Lolz. Nice one Goody. Realise you’ve got to go into bat for your boy but that’s pushing the barrow a bit far, innit! Now Goody is saying it's probably one of the better 6 possession games he's seen. To justify your response you'd have to identify some better 6 possession games otherwise your response is just plain dumb. So can you point me to some better 6 possession games?

Have you seen him at Casey much @Damo? He's a big bloke, filling into his frame and he's dominated some games down there. He reads the ball in flight and the game very well, he generally kicks very well and he has terrific hands both in the air and on the ground. He's half way through his second year and has so much improvement left in him. On Saturday his disposal let him down twice that I saw but I loved his hands under pressure, his willingness to jump at the ball and his reading of the play. I think he'll be very good for us and will be ready soon. With Lever, May, Frost and Hore we have decisions to make. Does anyone know if he's played forward in juniors? I saw him against Brisbane in the JLT this year and he played relief ruck late in the game and did well. It made me wonder if he could play forward and relief ruck in the longer term in the seniors. Just a thought.

I got there at the 20 minute mark of the second quarter - I can't get used to the different starting times! Chandler was on the bench when I got there and didn't return. But I've seen him a bit and like him. I think he does have the speed and he's a very good kick. I'm not sure he'll make it but he won't die wondering. KK: Looked pretty good to me. Got the ball a fair bit and used it okay considering the conditions which made it hard for everyone. I think the FD see him as a starting 22 player in the long run and he'll return before many think. The FD clearly want to get continuity into the team and if that means sacrificing a little performance they will do that. And we have 4 in the team on Saturday who aren't locks. JKH: Was very good from what I saw. Clean, faster than most, found the ball, got in good places and kicked it well. I don't know how the FD see him. I thought the was not the worst in Darwin but didn't hold his spot. His form at Casey has been very good. DK: Not a big man's day. We all want him to succeed but he's struggling. Lewis was outstanding. Far to good for this level and a terrific mentor to the young kids. Good on him for doing it, credit where credit is due. It was an awful game in awful conditions against a stand alone team hell bent on knuckling a few of our blokes. You'd think the VFL would put a stop to it. Williamstown do the same. It's not tough footy, just thug footy. You'd hope we'd be past that.

Neal Bullen.

I agree with you Dazzle. Why do you think the Club is looking to sign him?

What a gratuitous tasteless unnecessary comment. And yet I suppose you abhor social media bullies.

This has been a terrible year and I'd agree with much of what you've said other than there are credible alternative explanations which need to be factored into any discussion and in my view make your summation very emotive. Here are some of my observations/beliefs: 1. We very nearly, and should have, beaten WCE and Adelaide. The reality is we completely outplayed each of these teams other than on the scoreboard. And we did it with significantly compromised teams. WCE and Adelaide are good, if you can compete with them you're not far away. 2. We have a significant disconnect between our mids and our forwards which is hurting us. But the reality is that Jones, Oliver, Petracca, Harmes, Brayshaw and Viney all had significantly interrupted preseasons and therefore had no time to refine and develop this "connect". 3. For all that I'm sick to death of saying it (to myself), we are young. Almost all of our talent is young. Our over 25 year old players are Lewis, Jones, Garlett, Hibberd, Jetta, Melksham, Gawn, May, TMac, Frost, AVB and Viney. Compare that with Collingwood: Pendles, Varcoe, Mayne, Greenwood, Beams, Howe, Sidebottom, Thomas, Elliott, Treloar, Hosking Elliott, Adams, Crips, Grundy and Langdon. It's chalk and cheese. Fancy a mature team beating a team of kids. If you want a comparison of a team in a similar position look at Richmond. They did very well early with a few injuries but they reached a critical level and then they just fell apart. Big losses to North and a terrible thumping by Geelong. They just couldn't cope with the number of injuries and now look uncompetitive. There situation now is similar to what we've faced for much of the year. Collingwood are second on the ladder and we pushed them into the last quarter. I'm not saying we were ever going to win but we were very competitive and I think we were the better team over the last three quarters. They kicked 9 goals straight in the last half, we kicked 4.10. I acknowledge that much of that is where the goals are kicked from but the general view that we are uncompetitive and need a total overhaul is based on emotion and not rational analysis. Frankly, it's just not correct. We are a much better list than last year. Baker and Hore alone make us so and Lockhart has shown signs. Fritsch, after a slow start, has played very well the last few weeks and then you have May and Lever. Many have criticised the FD for bringing players back too quickly. It's being done because players benefit from playing with each other. That's where the "connection" comes from. Goody is putting a team on the field that will be a lot of our best 22 next year because he knows the more we play together the better we'll connect and the better we'll do. That's why Lever played on the weekend. It's not that hard to figure out. I'm not suggesting that we don't need to change some things. Some new voices in the assistant coaching department would be a good idea, a tweak to the game plan as every team will do, but this concept that we are a rabble is just plain wrong in my view. We need to see this year as it really is. We had a horribly compromised preseason, we had a terrible run of injuries early in the season and we played horribly compromised teams for much of that period. People will hate this but we've done okay given the hand we've been dealt; we've missed some good opportunities but we've put in some excellent performances. Hear is a list of our notable under 24's: Preuss, Salem, Kilodjashnij, Harmes, Petracca, Brayshaw, Lever, Hore, Fritsch, Weideman, Oliver, Baker and JSmith. When you look at that lot and think about it you'd be silly not to hold a fair degree of optimism for the not too distant future.

@leave it to deever https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2019-06-07/weideman-experiences-the-afls-dark-side I know you've probably read this and I know the majority won't change their behaviour but the more astute will. It's time we got serious about the realities of bullying on social media and realised its impact. I'm not having a crack at you LITD but it really is an issue. I know because I sponsored players at MFC for about 30 years and I've spoken to them about it. The sort of justifications you raised in your post are just not valid. I wish @Demonland would do something about the abuse this site is responsible for but I do understand that it's not easy to moderate.

I’m an unabashed Weideman fan. Instead of concentrating on the missed shot at goal I’m concentrating on the fact that a 21yo key forward was able to take a contested pack mark against strong opposition in the dying moments of a knife edge game. Yeh, he missed the shot. I could go back over the years and show you every great player missing from dead in front. What a shocking moment for the kid and what a great learning experience. Bounce back Sam, you’ve a great opportunity in front of you to become a really good player and I for one am right behind you.

Got you. We can say what we like cos they probably won't read it. Secondly they get abused at the games so we can do it here. Thirdly paid up members have the right to bully and abuse players on social media cos we've paid money. Finally it's okay cos they get abused in the papers as well. I'm not sure you've helped your cause.

@prodee and @wiseblood I think you'll find they stopped posting because this is such an awful place after a loss and most of the comments and suggestions are extreme with many just plain dumb. Like me, I imagine they are after sensible comment (like Scoop above) and not emotional sentiment with no intellectual content. They read because there are some good posters, which is why I'm here now (because I saw the last post was by P-Man who I like). I don't know if it's been said before in this thread but whilst I'm very disappointed about last night I'm much happier than I was after the GWS game. We played well. We saw continued proof that Oskar will be a good player, we saw we can compete with a good team with our second string backline playing, and I mean our VFL backline playing bar perhaps one or two. May, Lever, Jetta, Salem and Hore playing and do you think we lose that game? The criticisms of JKH are silly. His second game since March and he was rusty. 22 possessions, 6 tackles and a few wonky kicks. Who would have thought? Viney to be dropped and is a one trick pony. Is that a thought you really want to read? What planet does that come from? 15 negative comments from Joeboy when we lost a game we completely outplayed the opposition in other than on the scoreboard. Really? It shouldn't surprise you that many of the better and more sensible posters just can't be bothered. I'd love to see how many people who talk about the dangers of social media and bullying posted in the Oscar thread.

I agree it's debatable. What do you think?

I see you're not an advocate for diversity of opinion. There is no telling if TGR is correct in his assertion that Lewis shouldn't be drafted. It's an opinion and one in hindsight that is easily defendable. I give Lewis a bare pass but I can fully understand those blokes that think he should never have come to the club. The fact that Lewis's addition to our list is so debatable actually shows that TGR, being in a small minority, had a lot more foresight than many given his addition was welcomed by most. Cards I can't find the "worm" but it's a stretch to say we belted them. My recollection is they were very close in the last quarter, perhaps a goal, and I was anxious (in an attempt to avoid the censor) that we'd lose. This was not belting. A belting happened in the Preliminary a week later. And we "had to get a player of his ilk into the club". I'd like to see the justification of that! In all the good that he may have done he's certainly demonstrated how to be an arrogant toool and look after your own best interests firsts. I've seen nothing to suggest Lewis thinks the "team first" ethos at MFC is something he should follow. Hodge was the player that would have been much more valuable.