Red Sox

It's funny how 2001 is referred to as the Hodge, Ball, Judd draft....take a look right down the list as this draft was pure GOLD! Only problem was for the dees we struck ROCK! Look at Geelong for this draft - can see something a little similar to the dees drafts of late - Bartel (8), Kelly (17), Johnson (24) and Ablett as F/S Molan - he was very very highly rated but injury killed him.....this happens! But yeah when you look over this and see who came after him, Kelly, Johnson, Jas Gram and for me the big one...Nick Dal Santo.....right down at 13. Sam Mitchell and Montagna at 36 & 37...Dane Swan at 58, Brian Harris (Lake) at 71...great picks those four. Also very active in the trades this year......Peter Vardy and Craig Ellis! Loved that 2002 Crows final though...vintage Vards and Trap!! Bugger the result!

....that's a mouthful! Hopefully a handful for years to come!

Cristiano Ronaldo.......would look great flying up and down the wing. Alex Ovechkin - great goalscorer and strong...with the puck anyway! Billy Slater - could see him and Jack Grimes tearing up the half back line together

Doesn't really bother me.......but won't be using the term myself! Skull and JT is enough for me!

Just think that it is just so easy to rake over the 'failed drafting' of previous regimes.....some seemed right at the time, some didnt work, some did... 99 and 2000 was the AFL's doing......not much could be done on that so not sure it can be 'marked against us or the club at the time' 2001...yes not great at all Trav - well, yes everyone is entitled to their opinion and you are on the mark.....but I enjoyed watching Trav play, that is not an opinion it is my fact. Everyone else would have also taken him......in the long run we then traded him for Jack Grimes.......you have to join the dots sometimes mate because this pick has had a flow on affect many years later!! 2003 - yes not a great draft.....jury still out on Col Sylvia but has shown in his last 20 games that at his best he is a jet....hopefully he becomes more consistent as we get better..he will need to. Again, join the dots on pick 5 and we end up with Jordan Gysberts....you say lucky????? Why because Carlton made a bad decision to trade pick 11 for a 3rd round player? Smart on Melbournes part I would've thought and they played their hand beautifully with that trade. Nath Jones - for mine has reached his potential and wont improve any further but as you said is as honest as day and as has been proven with Junior Mac, limited players can prove people wrong. But if we didnt take Nath who wouldve we taken anyway? Shannon Hurn perhaps has turned out well, then it goes to Birchall, Varcoe, Douglas, Pfeiffer, Bailey, Dempsey, Bower, Stanley, Muston......hardly proven to be anything better than Nath IMO and most others I would've thought.....Birchall? Yeah decent, Varcoe? Taken a fair well to play consistent footy in an outstanding side. Traded away for Pickett? Yep...agree 100% but I did enjoy him in 2006....I remember even Adem Yze laying a big hip and shoulder that year because he had Bryon right next to him!! Bate - fair at best? IMO he has been better than that.....and will continue to be better....very very harsh! Look at the picks below Bate in that draft.....who would you take ahead of him even now? There are a few you could make a case.....very few! I would point more to our 'trades' in 2004 than the 'draft' - we lost Scott Thompson and Darren Jolly for not much really, bought in Beamer (may be limited in part IMO there is not much doubt but a true demon who's spirit is currently assisting the club and has through the last 3 sad years) as well as PJ who is a shocker.....Peter Walsh also but not much lost there IMO How about looking at 2006...Chip Frawley at 12 when you see some picked before him? An outstanding pick!!! Again, IMO it is so easy to look back and see the bad calls....look further down these lists and it is sometimes not all bad.....drafting, trading, list management etc is all tied into one so you can't just sting the bad calls when they have in turn presented other opportunities.

Have a look at all clubs through this period.......

At this stage very happy with Morton in comparision to Dangerfield who is just a half forward at the moment.....Cyril, well he is just one out of the box.....I'll never admit to enjoying players at other teams but he is one. The draft is always full of this "what if we took this bloke' stories. Overall our draft history back to 97 is not too bad.

IMO.....Gysberts is the in and under.....not just from one game at the dees...watch him at Casey, at TAC Cup....if he continues that at senior level he is an in and under gun that finds space and uses the ball!

You say Nath has improved over the last 3 years.....I'm not so sure about that, yes that has been improvement but IMO only in his in and under....besides 3-4 times this year he still struggles to hit targets as he brings the ball to his boot sideways...I'm not sure that I would rate Moloney below him, nor Bruce as much as I am nor a critic of Bruce as there is one player who to me has not improved at all since 2006. I do get your point on people (including me!) imagining untried talent being a sure thing to bring that talent to fruition.....I guess this is more in hope of what you see and hear. Look I have nothing against Nath (he is my wifes favourtie for one!) but maybe it's just 35 years of watching us go up and down on the back of players that while they give their all are not really the cream that is required to win flags and isnt that what we are all watching and waiting for?! If Nath is part of the group to bring that premiership home......great!

Anyone that cant let that go is not a fair dinkum supporter....it was a horrible time but Tiger had our interests at heart no matter right or wrong and did everything at and for this club...no question!

Not bad points PM but really it was Bailey saying good form for Casey will see a game in the seniors in response to Watts......and yes this comment is all well and good in essence but sometimes players are rightly picked on a 2-3 weeks of form, match ups and other reasons where they may not be in the best each week at Casey. Some players IMO can be more suited to AFL but not be quite as good at VFL level...IMO Bail is one, I reckon that he looks great at AFL level but not as damaging in VFL where is required to be more of the creator and finisher. Good coaches see this and recognise this. Bail will not return just yet but I would say IMO that he would play this week before Maric as Bail has shown better signs than Maric at AFL level...IMO!

I agree 100% on Aussie and Morton.....they both look short of a run (Darwin has taken a lot out of the players....this cant be underestimated). IMO Aussie should definitely go back for a spell and some fitness....Cale probably adds more in that he can be used in a variety of spots so will stay.....Would be nice to see Cale use his height to more effect....he is a big guy.....he could be a ruck option but I'll counter my own argument with that I haven't really seen him get too high!? Your point on Bate V Miller.....spot on and I cant argue that and Bate must return. Watts was quiet but surely would be kept for now and makes his way to a 2nd Queens Bday fixture!

Jack Grimes - will be/is a star no matter where he plays!!!! Not strong enough, accountable enough, slow to move the ball from defence???????? This may well be one of the silliest things I have seen written....seriously! The guy bounces up from marking contests, keeps his feet and he will win the ground ball 7/10 times if not more, he uses the ball fine, dont count kicking out against him....there are 40 blokes who would look bad at times when kicking out from FB.....zones etc make this one of the most difficult parts of the game IMO...the entire team need to get better in this area but saying that they have actually worked some coast to coast play quite well comparing to last year. I would suggest the fact that a suggestion comes to move Jack to the middle would only happen if he was a damn fine player, which he is, but to argue that he should be moved because of deficiencies in his game....your almost arguing against the point you are trying to make! AUTHORS NOTE - Jack is a superstar and I would never agree with negative comment anyway You're a star Jacky!!

Nice and simple Bates Mate!! Would like to see that simple statement on the team banner this week!!!

Not a whole lot that I would disagree with here except for the sting towards Brad Miller (not that the points are far off the mark) but to then bring Johnson up as an inclusion? No way.....he has had his chance and should not be seen again unless there is no option. Miller would be stiff to be dropped after a good effort in Darwin and IMO the best forward on Saturday even without the conversion rate...but yes Bate has to come straight back as do Skull and JT and I hope McKenzie.....Can anyone say why he was dropped???? I can handle the rest of of the other two but this one is still bugging me! Col Garland is a ripper though.....not many return to their peak straight after 12mths out of the game....Hille at Essendon has taken time, Aussie looks short of a run.....well put but reckon that Col deserves more time yet

Swampfox is on the mark as far as Bickley is concerned....no doubt that entry was to appease the interstate groups IMO. I am 35 so missed out on this glorious period and would have loved to live through it......(even though we will see this period of domination again very soon!) and what has always been a source of frustration for me growing up is how often these great players were overlooked when speaking of great teams/players of the past.....of course they were always mentioned but glossed over far too easily. Mithen, Spencer, Williams, Massey, Adams..Big Bob....superstars of the game that deserve recognition. If anyone listened to 3AW on Saturday Mike Sheahan interviewed Cam Schwab about this topic (Dennis Commetti was there also and as usual was all for his favourite player of all time - Bob Johnson!)...it was a great interview and interesting to hear that some of these players (Spencer for one) left to go back to the country because the $ were better than at VFL level.....some only played 130-150 games and were off to the bush. I think this is where they are overlooked because they didnt play 250-300 games which is just plain wrong. Coleman never played 100 and is in there and so should many of the above. Stu Spencer was only presented with his B&F Trophy at a function two weeks ago!! Hopefully a good start by Cam and the Board in ensuring former players are respected as they should be for representing this great club.

The debate grows by the week......one thing we can all agree on...Depth is starting to look really good!

Cameron Bruce - has been a good clubman and I wont put him out to dry.....but to find some symmetry he and Green started their careers together...3-4 years ago I would have had Cam in front but Green has flown past him, re-invented his game showing courage and selfless acts. IMO Bruce has not changed or improved. I wouldnt go as far as calling him soft, I'll say that he tends to be too 'cute' in what he is trying to do....when pushing forward his set shot skills have got worse each year. Rivers - I am still a fan but clearly he is struggling more and more when one on one with a strong opponent....as a loose man reading the play he is almost the equal of anyone in the league...... MacDonald - For mine the jury is still out.....speed has been picked up as an issue, dont think he is slow, whenever forwards put a lot of pressue on a backline anyone can look slow, he is fast enough and finds the ball, his use is still a query....if he uses it well he is a good player. Clearly - Chip, Warnock and Col Garland our 1st choice defenders as far as key position is concerned....Grimes will more than likely continue in this role, Bartram is doing a good job with players like Strauss ready to take it so options are good here. Cale Morton is capable of taking over from Cam Bruce but still has a bit to prove but IMO has plenty to offer and will get better and better.

Good arguments for all here and Strauss is a possibility I would think.....Bate if fit has to come straight back though possibly a straight swap for one of the forwards - Watts/Miller/Aussie - IMO Aus needs a week or two to get fitness levels up.

Correct!!

Not fit enough as yet.....obviously Wonna is your fave.....he is a star no doubt but these two games (Blues/Pies) are going to be HUGE for the dees and our year as a whole....need fit players ready to go and IMO Wonna is not quite fit enough. If he is fully fit...he is in the best side no doubt!

Nathan Jones will have to improve.....he may well be a 'kid' like the many we have.....these just means more pressure for this 'kid' as others come through. Kids like Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Grimes...etc etc have more natural talent than Nath....there is no doubt of this and we can all see this. This doesn't of course mean that Nath cannot become an important member of the team and extract every ounce of talent out of himself that he can. It is easy to sit back and make consensus on talent alone and if I were to draw up IMO my best Dees team from 2011/2012 onwards, Nath wouldn't be in it. Is this a slight on him...I wouldn't have though so, especially as my 'opinion' carries no weight. One thing I am certain of is that Nath and Beamer cannot be in the possible best side from 2012, this would mean some of the 'more talented' kids haven't come on as expected. Skull and JT have already shown they will kick goals from the middle and in todays footy this is more important than ever.....don't think Beamer or Nath posses this in them. Nath doesn't need to go looking at other players at other teams for inspiration though......he has it all there within his own club....being Junior to see that you can achieve great things without being naturally talented. The fact that we are beginning to argue this point, to me is just another sign of how quickly we are improving and how deep our list is becoming. May the passionate discussion continue!

Agreed and Agreed.....seriously how easy is it for some to knock this guy!!! Out of 6 forwards named he was clearly the best but should be dropped? CmoN!! At least he took some good marks and tried to influence each contest.....cant wait for a fit Wonna to be in the side...until then he must go back to the twos! This week? Easy to say who I would want to come in - Scully, Trengove, McKenzie & Bate Going out will be: Rivers - seen the negativity towards Riv here on Deeland and tried to avoid it but he was horrible on Saturday and seems to be beaten one out far too often now....he is EXCELLENT as a free marking defender but not one out.....he needs to be dropped. Garland - if injured this may keep Riv in the side or he might still get dropeed with Garland to get the four above into the side? Wonna - just not fit enough yet.....cant wait to see a fit Wonna.....the twos is the place to get this fitness back Will they make four changes? Not sure that they will and maybe three will do it? If a fourth omission comes it may be one of the forwards that make way for Bate - hard to get stuck in when they didnt have the service but thought all of their efforts weren't too great - Watts, Miller, Jetta or Bennell? Out of that four Bennell surely wont get dropped just yet......may get 'rested'? Jetta wasnt too bad...Watts was very quiet but still needs more time before being 'rested'.....Miller? Thought he was the best of the forwards....unless they decide Bate is the better option?? So I'll say Scully , Trengove and Bate (if fit enough) are certainties and hopefully McKenzie is back

Lessons to be learned by this game but thought we were really hesitant and had lost the game in our heads before even stepping out on the ground.....a bit more trust in the attacking game you have set up boys!!! Bring on Brock and the Blues!! 6 - Jordan Gysberts - have been hanging to see this kid and the way he got his touches in a one sided game, in a debut, I could go one.....great effort and could be in line for Rising Star this week? Look forward to seeing him, Skull and JT in the side next week. 5 - Brad Green - I remember 4 or 5 years ago calling this guy soft, gee he has changed that around over many years now......a sign of what a great player he is, is that he has changed for the better when he got a bit of a kick.....listening to Cam on 3AW it will Green or Moloney for skipper after junior and would be well deserved if it was Green..... 4 - Chip Frawley - I give Chip the 4 because he was beaten early but was able to turn this around and become a winner and attacker in defence - continues to improve and learn each week 3 - Moloney - worked hard all day in his 100th 2 - Brad Miller - may surprise but I give him 2 because he worked really hard in a forward line that didnt see too much good ball but tried to influence each contest he got to 1 - Junior Mac - he just deserves votes every week the skipper 3 - Davey - was one of few players who tried to attack and set the team up

I'm very happy with Fitzy and Gawn and I think Jamar is handling being the No.1 ruckman fine. Well, better than he was handling being No.2.