Red Sox

Good work Ox....had to satisfy my curiosity but there is the Gys in the background! http://www.standard.net.au/multimedia/13768/73300/demons-in-warrnambool.aspx?Start=20&page=1

I didn't notice Gys at the boxing camp Ox? Thanks for the update..hopefully a problem soon alleviated as these can become troublesome. Surely we've had our share of damn fine players over the last 20 years cut down by injury at one stage or another, the Ox being one, Glen Lovett, Stinger, Jakovich, Lyon...on and on. Really think we missed Gys in the middle last week, even being young he is an addition into midfield rotations and a good one at that.

So a four week injury in essence factoring in the week off and the weekend just gone? Glad we heard about that two weeks after the fact.

We will see various different opinions on this thread which is good, but I imagine the final consensus of everyone will be that the Match Review Panel is flawed! Would be nice for us if this would affect St Kilda for the game this week, but the amount of issues they have dealt with in 2010, Baker, Lovett, Milne, Riewoldt...amazing that they can continue to churn it out so effectively. Saints Footy = [censored] Footy....can't stand watching them but full credit to them. No doubt they will get over this quickly and get their frustration out on Sunday by strangling the life out of us!

The inconsistency has always been an issue but this year it has gone to another level. Sylvia's broken jaw unpunished, Buddy Franklin getting a raw deal IMO, Judd getting off - Buddy would have got 4 for the same, Jack Riewoldt not being sighted, it goes on and on. When that carry on with Hall and Thompson was highlighted it was obvious to me that the next antagonistic player to attempt anything such as this would find himself in trouble, Steve Baker come on down!! The old push and shove will now disappear from the game as it is sanitised more and more, players such as Johnson and Hall have no way of reciprocating to the niggle of Baker or Thompson, even the square up hip and shoulder is too risky these days. Aaron Davey must be loving this as he is far too easily put off his game by these types. I can't stand Baker for the most part but he has been seriously hard done by.

Bing, he did next to nothing because they applied a heavy tag to him after he was extremely impressive in the stoppages against Geelong and Carlton...two teams that are not too shabby in this area. I'm not a fan of Meat Loaf in any way, but 2 out 3 ain't bad!!! Considering the HUGE focus on the Jamar/Moloney double act through the week and the pressure Craig Neil applied on Moloney, Gys could well have had an impact on Sunday. Get him back in!

Yeah saw that earlier Redleg....that's fine if that's the case but would have much preferred to be informed of that. One area that the club has improved a lot is the communication to fans, so will put that lack of info down to an oversight by the club.

What are these stats based on....last week alone or 2010?

Huh? At the risk of being shot down, I find it amazing that so so many people have gotten stuck into JW for slipping over all day yet Skull seems to have missed that critique, he was certainly not missed on any of the football talk shows last night, they all highlighted Skull and didnt mentions JW once. Hound me down for mentioning JW again in this thread but it is relative to the subject matter being discussed. Moving on from that though, Skull was terrific on the day and as hard at it as anyone as he has been numerous times this year. He and Trengove are something special, another pre-season next year and these two will go to another level again next year, two kids that are just hungry to make it as successful footballers. Hopefully this permeates the entire club.

Trades? Would love to see Roughead bought across, would be like watching the Ox in many ways once again. He has signed for 3 years or so, but does this matter if the right trade happened and Hawthorn wanted it? Look I know I am doing the proverbial in the wind here but say either one of Warnock or Rivers (and defenders are an area Hawthorn is crying out for)plus our first pick in this up coming draft? Would that be enough to suffice Hawthorn? I am not a fan of giving high picks away (especially with out record) but considering we have stock piled a fair bit of young talent in the last 3 and if Roughead was the result of that trade, not a bad result?

What was Leigh Matthews doing on here? Was he confused with Trav or stung by that trade? Seriously, soft????!!!! This guy is star and will be a super star!

At the end of the day we have won one and half games by a total of a point in the last 8 weeks.... Not good enough and I would have expected to be at the very least more competitive for longer periods of games. Break it down - Round 2 against the pies, we played what was probably our best game as far as opposition effort etc and broke even in most categories. Brisbane game was great but I don't think there was a lot of resistance from them that night. Richmond was a nice win after we broke some early cob webs. The Adelaide game at the G....wasn't a great game really and IMO Adelaide could have had us in a much more precarious position by half time than they did, they had no bench in the 2nd half and it was just as well we did win that game. The Port game was good even accounting for the fade out, we still hit back and got over the line. The Collingwood draw was great and the effort was there, we still should have been blown away but bad kicking is bad football. The dogs game was a ripper and we let that slip. What has happened to the ferocious tackling and pressure we applied in the first half dozen games? The axing of Jordie McKenzie...what was all that about as IMO he has not quite been the same on his return. There has been some positives, plenty actually but there has been just as many negatives. Yes it is to be expected but I would have hoped for a bit more improvement than shown. The last 2 mths have been very poor. We have some winnable games in the last 9......2 wins and a competitive edge in the others I will settle for, not asking for miracles. If we finish only a win or so above Richmond, even WCE......it would be a season of very little improvement.

I don't think it's a case of being a 'development' or 'project' player as such. More that for the most part these kids simply take time to develop full stop. It seems to be even more pronounced among tall players and I guess without professing to be any sort of professional that it may have to do with the fact these kids are still growing into their entire bodies & developing core strength as suggested above. Midfield types are a lot closer to having developed bodies and can also slip into a team amongst a group of similar types. Talls as key position players are more of a single focus but still carry the same expectations as the midfielders where it probably cant be expected. Nic Naitanui is in the exact same category yet has shown some 'flashes' that are enough for people to start to label him as a certain label, be it a 'new pioneer of the game' or such along those lines. Jack Watts of course is being labeled at the other end of the spectrum. It was interesting watching Brendon Goddard on, On the Couch tonight. It was discussed how he was very much maligned early in his career. Today he is probably in the best 5 players in the game along with those mentioned in the post above. They all are different players and devloped at different rates. I've got no doubt Jack will grow and develop at his own rate and be a star for the Melbourne footy club. Yeah it's frustrating watching when he slips over, but when that stops even using the Adelaide game as an example, he would have a possession count close to 20 and 6-10 marks rather than just 15 and 5. Not bad stats from a key forward who's team manages only 29 inside 50 entries for the day. Hopefully a break out game is not far away...but no matter how far, it will happen for him.

Yeah I like it....especially coming from you Warren Dean...now there was a guy that was cruelled by injury. I loved Warren Dean in 87, a great finals series...memories!!

Fumbled unnecessarily?

I used to play for Spotswood many years ago. I remember us being chased out of that place one day when steel bars were produced after an all in started. Scary stuff it was....even worse we were 5 goals up and forfeited the result! That was a good 15 years ago now so I assume things have change a bit since then? Long before all the changes were made to the oval there.

Not those horrible magpies of Parkside steamin?!

Yep, good call, fair call......love flash and have no doubt he will play a beauty this week as he does every 2ND week!

Realise that non-moulded are issues for players. With every other piece of sports science that plays are part with clubs looking for that extra inch in advantage it is amazing that the boots haven not really changed over time. Are Blades still worn these days at all? Not that I am suggesting that they are any better as I wouldn't really know. Great point by Old Dee!! It does seem to ring true that even being a step behind for the ball then you are dictated to by your opponents next move, especially if they take possession.. Good Call

Not sure old dee....really it is just not something I take a whole lot of notice. I think it was Rhino who probably passed on the best advice about the contract being that they would tie him up for 3 years to take pressure of him etc etc. $200-$300K sounds about right and Jack knows where he is at this stage and would accept that. Incentives etc would be built in no doubt where he could make more going forward.

Not a pot shot at you old dee as I am sure it is just an enquiry but I'm with Jaded on the topic of remuneration of players. I understand people wanting to know and making demands when players performance is not up to scratch but really, how many do you think run around and drop marks or slip over and think 'stuff it I'm making $200K so who cares'? The figures people quote, other than media 'at times' are most likely not even close. There is an amount that clubs need to get to so in some cases, ie Melbourne some players are probably getting over the odds, others ie Geelong are probably getting unders. I know I don't sit at my desk all day thinking what I just made in the last hour, maybe because I would feel guilty about my time spent on Demonland etc!

It's unfortunate that Jack lost his feet a few times in previous games because he has become a scapegoat for this pandemic yesterday that affected near on every player on occasion and some on numerous occasions, not just J Watts. If you are looking for this guy/kid to rip a game to pieces, then look elsewhere...it's not going to happen straight away for him as it does not happen for many many players of his size. If you noticed an improvement in his game yesterday, then good on you because you noticed a bit more than others just can't see. It would be great if he was tearing it apart, it would be great if Jones and Moloney were Judd and Ablett. They aren't, he is not...I realise it's not so simple but there are gradual signs of improvement. Agree with the calls that he and Jurrah as soon as Jurrah is right to go should play out the season together. Stuff getting Casey games into him and finals at VFL level, yeah it might help but better to put genuine AFL game time into him with the forwards that he will spend a good decent part of his career with hopefully, being he, Jurrah, Bate and even hopefully Tapscott later in the year. He has been a bit unfortunate that we have had so many injuries up forward. If Jack was able to slip into a forward line where Jurrah, Bate and Petterd were genuine targets imagine the release for Jack? Patience!

Agree that Johncock got away from Dunn too much and the points on the day go to stiffy but Dunn was not too bad on the very few occasions we got the ball into our 50 and had we got even close to matching clearances/stoppages that we should have then Dunn could have exploited this area more. He just didn't really get the delivery required to exploit him. Extra credit to Matty Bate on his game due to this fact. Super effort Bater.

HT, at least it is good to see that a thread is started to make the point rather than the attacks on one players ability to keep their feet. There is nothing more frustrating than seeing a player in a one on one go to ground and the ball continually swept away, it is more annoying IMO than when opposition break through easy tackles. I expect to see more of the same at that atrocious Docklands stadium this week.....

Ok....I've had my rant and rave and yes I am outraged...but moving on, there was one big positive from the game yesterday and that was seeing Jack Grimes start the 3rd quarter in the midfield. As far as desperation for the ball goes there is not many finer in our current squad than Jack, even when losing his footing he seems to bounce up pretty quickly and looks to go again. Granted, he has made a few errors with the ball of late but this comes more from the lack of options given to him upfield and his want to make something out of nothing. (Just go the first option sometimes Jack!) I would expect the same desperation out of the middle from him and as proven yesterday he is very quick to get away from a contested situation. Having him pump the ball out of the middle more often than not is looking to me as something that could be of a real advantage to us. Who would replace Jack as that sweeper in defence? Out of the current team you could look at players like Morton, Bruce and MacDonald but these three IMO turn the ball over far too often when not under pressure. Out of the three I would like to suggest Morton being a spare man more often and using his height and agility to advantage but there is still are fair bit of doubt in my mind that he could play this position with confidence. Aaron Davey I would like to see used as the sweeper across the half back line permanently. His best games over the past two years are from here when he can cut through the half back/middle and set up plays by hitting team mates in positions most other players cannot. Davey simply is not a player for the cut and thrust of stoppages and we should look to exploit his great skills as best we can. Many have mentioned Strauss in this position, this is a decent possibility also but Strauss has yet to be given further opportunity and has a bit more to prove. Grimes would add a new dimension to the midfield. Grimes to a midfield/stoppage position permanently. Davey to a half back position permanently. Strauss to a half back position through the remainder of 2010 as much as possible. Bartram has been great this year and I am loathe to mention him but IMO we need to look at half back types that can 1 - beat an opponent (Bartram has done this well this year) and 2 - use the ball effectively as it is from here that our forward thrusts start and we are getting no momentum currently. (Bartram will not improve in this area). Morton, MacDonald, Bruce could all beat opponents but they let themselves down when they take possession. Strauss has this area covered but does he have the ability to also beat his opponent one on one? Not sure and no one is until we give this a go. Players such as Gilbert, O'Brien, Shaw, Maxwell, Enright, Mackie can all do both and we need to find players that are damaging both ways. I would suggest that having Davey off a half back flank would 1 - see an opposition forward almost wasted as they would look to tag him and 2 - Davey applying enormous tackling pressure as a hunter in the opposition forward line as his pressure is better in this area than in contested situations. 3 things that IMO we really need to do for the remainder of this year. We can all continue to put the boots into Watts and Miller but IMO we really need to start moving the ball better on a more consistent basis and this means getting it to the better users of the ball.