P-man

Higher, yes. That need not necessarily impact getting Hibberd to the club. Though I suppose it is Essendon we're talking about, so they will want Hogan plus some steak knives.

Jones and Vince have played there partly because of the lack of quality users, so you're basically strengthening the case for bringing in a a player like Hibberd. We have far from a glut of HBF options. Numbers wise perhaps, but not quality wise. Especially with Salem stagnating.

He did at least acknowledge Max as a contender, but I struggle with his justification for NicNat: "Which leaves the ruck, Melbourne's Max Gawn is another who is very stiff to miss. His numbers stack up very well, Goldstein perhaps just a tiny bit more effective with his disposal and near goal. But mobility in a team picked as if to play is essential, which means missing the No.1 berth, Gawn also misses out as No.2, where Nic Naitanui offers more flexibility and has certainly turned in a good enough season to earn his spot in my 22." The supposedly more flexible NicNat has kicked a total of 5 goals to Gawn's 9, and whilst averaging the same amount of disposals, averages less marks and less goal assists. Gawn is also 10% more effective in his ball use. Both are mobile big men which is what helps push them into the elite category. On pure tap work Gawn has a healthy lead over NicNat. Connolly would've been better off just admitting he's picked NicNat based on reputation and credits in the bank.

Garlett out over Kent and Harmes is just bloody stupid. What's the argument? He had a down couple of weeks? How many have Kent and Harmes had? We better win this. The selections this season continue to annoy me.

I like him going forward and he is probably better by foot, but he's still a bit error prone and certainly not a one touch player. A rest wouldn't be the worst thing for him at the halfway stage. If Grimes is a flop, so be it. I think his experience and hunger to keep his career going will add something to the side and he's earned the chance. So bank on him being named as an emergency again.

I don't think we'd lose much of anything with Grimes in for Wags so would be happy to see that change. Hunt has solidified his spot a bit more in recent weeks and provides a point of difference with his run.

He's on 360 tomorrow night, along with some bloke named Treloar.

Grimes' consistent form should be rewarded. 14 tackles along with another 25 possessions. For heaven's sake, he's earned a game. Seeing him get shat on at selection is starting to really bother me.

Nail on head.

Demonland Player of the Year: Unofficial Tally Votes (games polling votes/games played) 1. Viney - 335 (8/10) 2. Gawn - 271 (8/11) 3. N Jones - 225 (10/11) 4. Jetta - 192 (9/10) 5. Vince - 176 (9/10) 6. Tyson - 176 (6/10) 7. Watts - 173 (8/11) 8. Hogan - 160 (7/11) 9. Kennedy - 112 (5/10) 10. Stretch - 76 (3/6) 11. Garlett - 65 (4/9) 12. T McDonald - 63 (5/11) 13. Bugg - 59 (4/11) 14. Oliver - 48 (4/8) 15. Harmes - 30 (3/11) 16. Hunt - 27 (3/8) 17. Petracca - 25 (2/6) 18. Lumumba - 24 (2/5) 19. Wagner - 22 (4/9) 20. Kent - 16 (2/10) 21. M Jones - 13 (2/4) 22. Pedersen - 8 (4/7) 23. Frost - 7 (2/6) 24. Salem - 3 (1/7) 25. Trengove - 3 (1/1) 26. Garland - 1 (1/6) Best per round (vote order) Rd 1 (GWS): Viney, Watts, T McDonald, Kennedy, N Jones, Oliver, Gawn, Vince, Jetta, M Jones, Hogan Rd 2 (Ess): Kennedy, Garlett, N Jones, Vince, Tyson, M Jones, Jetta, Harmes, Pedersen Rd 3 (Nth): Viney, Gawn, Vince, Lumumba, Jetta, Oliver, Hogan, Kent, Salem Rd 4 (Coll): Watts, Viney, Gawn, Wagner, Tyson, N Jones, T McDonald, Lumumba, Kennedy, Pedersen, Frost, Bugg, Hogan, Jetta Rd 5 (Rich): Gawn, Viney, Tyson, Vince, Garlett, T McDonald, Watts, Kent, N Jones Rd 6 (StK): Hogan, Viney, N Jones, Watts, Jetta, Gawn, Vince, Tyson, Bugg, Kennedy, Pedersen Rd 7 (GC): Gawn, Viney, N Jones, Jetta, Harmes, Oliver, Bugg, Hunt, Vince, Wagner, Pedersen, Garlett Rd 8 (WB): Jetta, Tyson, Viney, Kennedy, Stretch, Vince, T McDonald, Watts, Hogan, Jones Rd 9 (Bris): Hogan, Stretch, Bugg, Petracca, N Jones, Watts, Garlett, Oliver, Harmes, Wagner, Vince, Garland Rd 10 (PA): Gawn, Jetta, N Jones, Hogan, Watts, Hunt, Stretch, T McDonald, Viney Rd 11 (Haw): Vince, Tyson, N Jones, Jetta, Watts, Gawn, Hunt, Frost, Wagner, Petracca, Trengove

He was decidedly poor against the Sainst as was the majority of the side. His other games weren't as poor as has been made out. i know many prefer a default position of the FD always knows best, which is a handy one when things pay off. Roos has admitted fault several times this year alone. I'm comfortable questioning the decision. If Dunn is now injured, it takes the debate off the table for the time being.

You would be in Clint's second group. The thread starts off on a crap note. Other than that it is a worthwhile discussion. The sudden whitewashing of Dunn's career as a defender is perplexing. What I want is to play the best 22 available players every week to give us the best chance of winning every week.

I like it, especially the change of White in for O Mac. Only hesitation is that it looks a tad slow. Even just looking at the bench, Hunt alone doesn't compensate for Trengove, Vanders and Grimes. Reluctantly I think we need to keep one of Harmes and Kent. But they need to be read the riot act. I'll accept 5 touches if it is coupled with 9 tackles. I'd keep Kent for another week and bring in Kennedy for Harmes.

Agree with most of that, but referencing the shots on goal as evidence they could've flogged us is folly. A lot of them were rushed behinds, and when you score a behind you get an opportunity to set up and create another scoring opportunity. The 58-50 inside 50 count provides a better reflection of the evenness of the contest. Their tackling inside forward 50 was a key difference. Kent and Harmes haven't been good enough of late in this aspect especially.

It had many regular joes scratching their heads. He did play forward a bit as a junior I think? And maybe they thought his athletic attributes would translate well. But he looks far more potent as a defender. Disposal needs a tidy up. A couple of his errors were under no pressure which we can't afford. We make enough under pressure.

You could be right. I'm not claiming he loses every contest, but there have certainly been occasions that support what I said. Let me add that I'm not that comfortable having so much focus on a 19 year old KPD, but his continued selection has forced our hand in a way. I won't be putting my hand up to review the game tapes. I only do that for 10+ goal wins

Not a good example of Demonland groupthink. If anything, posters are split down the middle on whether he should be playing or not. He shouldn't be, imo. His presence in the side is costly at the minute. Slow, easily outbodied and outpositioned, and panicked with the ball. One McDonald in the side is enough for the time being. Two of them is doing my tightness in the chest no favours. But it's a pointless debate because he will be selected. I'd even expect Harmes to be selected again despite a screaming case for him to have a spell. It is youth or bust at the minute.

The mids battled manfully evidenced by winning the CP and clearance count. We tended to hoof it in hope a bit more than the oppo, but today mainly showed that the forward line remains a work in progress. They smashed us on tackles in forward 50 and the difference between Breust, Gunston, Rioli and Puopolo compared to Watts, Garlett, Kent and Harmes was stark. They have built up a cohesiveness that we simply don't have as yet. Defensively we looked less vulnerable on transition today than we have in previous weeks. The weather no doubt was a factor in that but it seemed like we were able to get numbers behind the ball and stop their momentum at different stages. I would liken today's performance as not dissimilar to that against Richmond. Good endeavour for most of the day. Just a far better opponent.

Haven't listened to Clarko's presser but happy to hear he's gotten on the front foot. Hopefully the AFL don't derp around too much and just fix it.

If you had played a drinking game where you took a shot every time they referenced Hawthorn's historical dominance over Melbourne, you'd have been hammered by halftime. You get used to the condescending crap but [censored] me it was irritating today. I honestly can't believe how stupid Basil Zemplas is. There's no other way to put it. The man is an imbecile.

Fantastic intensity for the last 10 minutes and reaping the reward.

Our defence is just so bad.

Yep, the goals out the back have the potential to get real ugly. I'm still leaning towards wet weather + Trenners comeback game giving us a sniff. Please don't rob me of my shallow optimism.

Hawks are ranked fourth for scoring from turnovers. If Port and the Saints tore us up on the rebound, the Hawks could annihilate us. Defensive pressure needs to be at its peak today.