bing181

I think you'll find that it's exactly because of Jack's "culture" (or lack of it) that we're where we are on this.

Also older. Lever has his whole career ahead of him.

* years

Which is the definition of hindsight bias, events being "proven correct" by subsequent events.

They're not mistakes at the time they occur. "Hindsight bias is the inclination, after an event has occurred, to see the event as having been predictable, despite there having been little or no objective basis for predicting it."

I stand corrected.

Including dropping him for his last game in charge.

Have to confess, I haven't read every post. There are a lot of them.

And your point is?

Bernie is/was in the leadership group. As you'd expect with someone of his experience. And by the time the others you mention have had 9 years in the system, if they're still going, you'd expect similar of most of them as well.

If he's such a great clubman, how come he's never been in the leadership group?

The guy was held back from the first two pre-season matches for just that. There are any number of accounts of Watts currently doing the rounds. None of them are particularly complimentary in terms of his application. Sure, they could all be BS, but in that case, odd that the BS is all in one direction. If you can find reports from anyone who claims to know Watts saying that he's a player who pushes himself to the limit and does everything he can to get the max out of himself, I'd be interested to see them.

Not the point. Or not the point in isolation. While not every player can be Daniel Cross in their preparation and in pushing themselves to the max (also a characteristic of Goodwin as a player), there's still a minimum that's required. From everything we know, Jack W is falling short, best 22 or not. He's just not hungry enough, and if that's still the case after 3 years under Roos and 1 under Goodwin, then it's time. God only knows what he could have been if he'd had Crossy's attitude.

Don't know how divisive it is on the inside. Looks like the FD and players - at least the leaders - are all on the same page here. As for vitriol, what vitriol? Jack's a nice guy, with some real skills, but there are two sides to every discussion and if you want to build the hard, win-at-all-costs culture that we've seen at clubs like Hawthorn or the Swans, then you have to make hard, win-at-all-costs decisions. Maybe this is one of them.

But what are we telegraphing? As I said, from what I can see, all clubs (and players) know pretty well everything about every club and what's going on behind the scenes. For example, the idea that we can somehow hide the fact that Jack turned up to pre-season underdone and then didn't really apply himself to the levels required ... hard to see it.

As if the rest of the competition doesn't already know more about Jack than anyone on this Board will ever know. And every other player on our list for that matter. And we theirs.

Add Jones and probably Viney to that as well. If Watts goes, it's a club-wide decision. Seems pretty clear everyone has had enough. What's that saying about nice guys finishing last?

"One of the things that is very hard from a coaching viewpoint is to provide effort," Pyke said.

He didn't finish 4th, it was 5th, and he won't go near that this year (and not only because of the game he missed either). Stop kidding yourselves about how fabulous Watts is. Yes, he can be ... sometimes. He can also play so poorly he gets dropped to the seconds. He plays and trains well when he feels like it. It's clear that the club - from the players to the FD - have had enough.

Managing to get picked each week is a pretty low bar for a guy in his 9th season.

Hyperbole. Some of the pro-Watts posts here are straight out of Fantasyland.

Just nonsense. If it was a question of time, he was also given 2-3 weeks in the firsts to get his form back, but was still poor. He was even poorish his first week back at Casey. etc. etc. The rest of your post is just as far-fetched. The Jack Watts that many of you are describing here is a figment of your imagination.

Think you'll find decisions like this aren't just made by the coach, but would involve the whole FD, even up to Board Level (depending on the player and other considerations)

Dropped from pre-season matches because of poor pre-season form and attitude. Dropped to Casey for poor form/attitude. Also ended the previous season at Casey due to poor form/attitude.

?? Commenting is precisely what the media's job is.