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Burke, David Neitz is 196 cm. Need i say more? Jack Watts will be a superstar....

I think lots of people underestimate the Russian. He is not only one of the best tap ruckmen around, but is an outstanding pack mark. With Spencer and Gawn in the team, I can see him developing into a dominant forward in the Salmon mould, and teamed with Watts, Jurrah, Bate, Pettard, Davey, Tengove, Sylvia - i reckon that in two to three years time is a premiership winning forward line.

As I said, I bet we will win a flag before Carlton

And Jamar up forward

This is one decision with which I agree with the match committee. Brock just did not fit into our long run success plans. Too slow, and not an accurate enough kick. I other words, not skilled enough. I think in the long run it will be a wise decision PS I bet we win a premiership before Carlton do. WHY? Their list is not as skilled as ours,and they have major cultural problems built into their club (along with Collingwood). The closest the AFL has to a Rugby League club, and they seem not at all interested in fixing it. It will cost them dearly in the end.

I think it is time to be constructive. I'm not suggesting, Rhino, you are anything else but this. Others on this site seem to want to tear down the good work that has been done by the Club in its current form, I am not one of them, either are you. I view sites such as this as a means of tapping into feedback from dedicated supporters who want to see the Club SUCCEED in the longer term. The clubs should use this that way. My contention re Hawthorn is i dont believe their opportunities are unique. They come by from time to time. My challenge is we should learn from them as to how the MFC were outgunned by the Hawks on THESE issues, and we should analyse why we were and make sure we do not miss out on similar opportunities in future. Take Darwin. About half the population of Tasmania, but one that is getting huge injection of funds from both locally and federally and indeed internationally because of the appalling state of indiginous welfare ( to which no one in my view could argue). AFL is not only the indiginous game, it is also the one where the indiginous players have an inate and unique ability. it is also one where this is fundamental to the future of the MFC given its fabulous indiginous playing roster.It would also have hugely beneficial affects on the demographic which is of most concern to policy makers ie 14-25 male indiginous youth.It is also a key operating environment for huge mining, oil & gas, and pastoral companies who have both an employment and PR interest to promote the interests of their local populations. How better than through their local indiginous game. Maybe also a source of substantial sponsorship dollars. Surely better than MFC's current major sponsors, allegedly the lowest in the AFL in terms of total dollars contributed. What if we did a deal with the NT government,similar to hawthorn's tasmanian deal? The benefits to both parties are different but if anything more profound. It creates a unique role model to indiginous children, and a whole new goverment backed market for the mfc. It might even pre-empt Gold Coast in capturing that market, and provide additional members and sponsors. Another one, which is tied to the internet which i mentioned previously, is our unique connection to the MCG. There are someting like 400k people who tour the MCG outside playing times every year, of which about 60% are overeas based. What if we were to insinuate our way into this group, provide presentations as to what Aussie rules is all about, give them free scarfs and lapel badges, AND free overseas memberships for a year which entitles them to four free games a year to the MCG. We also get our web act together and give them access to replays of MFC games when they get back to their home countries, even in hindi or mandarin. How many of them would sign up fully paid the next year as overseas members or full members when they emmigrate? Even if they didn't what have we got to lose? The AFL would love it, and may even fund it. Further, about 20% of those people are potential immigrants, often overseas students particularly from the sub-continent. There are about 250k students from the subcontinent in melbourne at any one time. If we position ourselves as THEIR club, so it becomes fashionable for them, when they arrive in melbourne to join us, where do you think that will take the MFC. Make the MFC a key place for them to socially network and meet others - a "cool" place to be. Not attractive to the old burgers of the long room maybe, but directs us to an incredibly strong and prosperous 21st century future, and into a wealthy tertiary educated market which goes with our current demographic. At the moment these are only ideas. I realise they can be dismissed as "only one of hundreds that come in every year". As someone who has run a number of high powered marketing depertments here and overseas, that is the standard response from Product Managers who come across ideas they didn't invent themselves, and is the bane of their senior management who are interested in original and innovative thought. Now i don't know whether these have any traction at all, but at least they are constructive, and demonstrate that the break out options are real and should be explored. I wait with baited breath to see whether anything changes.

I don't agree there aren't any breakout strategies open to Mfc in developing new markets. You went through the opportunities which Hawthorn used to build its list. Hawthorn very acutely took advantage of st kilda's lack of foresight on those issues. We could have too - we were just too slow and too lacking in imagination,and probably stuck in the old ways of doing things. There are always breakout strategies available to organisations with strategic strengths (as we have got) and a strong organisation (which we now have got). All it requires is some lateral thinking and innovative ways of looking at things. Off the top of my head I listed four possible directions in post #35 & #42 on here. I could have listed another half dozen, but it requires far more of course than a simple post on here, especially a strong basis of fact and planning which is the basis of decision making. But on the general point that you made that the club has examined all the alternatives and there are no breakout strategies available to them - well I would never accept that. With the right commitment they can be identified. It is a question of getting to them before the other guys and taking advantage of them.

If both perform well, both should play in my opinion

An even better bet is Melbourne is at $4.80 to beat Hawthorn Round !. I'll have a bit of that.

Essendon managed to negotiate their way out of the telstra deal. They are the only club that had the gumption to do so, and are now reaping substantial dividends from it. We could do the same

How do you think they got there? By being innovative, progressive and professionally run. We are very close to being there, but not yet....

Rhino, I think we are furiously agreeing with one another. The Club may well have looked at some of these things, but the membership numbers are stubbornly hovering around 30k, nothing like the breakout number of the hawks which have gone from 20k to 50k. I have read all that I can lay my hands on on their strategies to build on these numbers (admittedly not very much - i'm sure there is more it is just I can't see it), and no where can i see a breakout strategy which conciously develops new markets as I have suggested here. Certainly there is nothing about it in any of their publications nor on their website. Neither are they doing anything remotely innovative around the use of the web, unlike Essendon who have conciously gone their own way as far as a web presence is concerned and claim to make anything up to $1m each year out of it. Being in this game myself, I can understand how this might be done. The website MFC has is little more than an online newspaper and has none of the revenue generating and innovative constructs you would expect from a sophisticated web presence. An imaginative web presence is also an excellent way of building a membership base, but perhaps not the traditional membership base. It does require some innovative thinking.

I'm not doubting that MFC is one of the least supported AFL. My point is why has it come to this and what do we do to get out of it. Being a foundation member of the VFL/AFL, and having one of the biggest supporter bases in the country in the 50's, 60's and 70's, and one of the wealthiest, we have managed to let it slip by neglect and incompetence. But we still have many advantages that others don't have: foundation ties to the MCC/MCG, a relatively wealthy supporter base, a well presented brand if somewhat neglected over the years, a strong administration, an exciting emerging playing list, and a new home right in the middle of the famous melbourne sporting precict. These are things we can build on. My point is though, we need to do more, just as Hawthorn have done by looking at and building new markets. There ARE things we can do here which exploit our traditional markets, as well as build on our new strengths (see my earlier post on this thread).

Before the AFL Commission was established the Game was going no where and was controlled by the self interested clubs. Since it has been established, the games has gone truly National (the basis of the lucrative TV deals on which the economics of football is based),ground rationalisation providing first class fan facilities, salary cap, drafting, codes of behavior have been inforced placing our code of football miles in front of any other in the land. That is why the NRL are desparately trying to set up something similar so it can compete. Sure the game needs fans and clubs, but they had that before. What was missing was first class organisation which has made the game the leading sport in Australia, and the envy of its competitors.

It is great Aussie Rules is in such a healthy state financially. All of the competitive codes would love to be in such a position. If you dont believe me, just look at the current state of Rugby Union. It is a mess, and really struggling financially, in spite of its strong international base. The AFL should be congratulated for developing such a strong code in purely a domestic game, quite un-precedented in world sport. Relatively, it is far healthier than even the NFL in the US.

Did anyone note Cameron Schwab's comment at his new Wednesday Whiteboard forum (currently posted on this forum) that MFC has the highest ratio of supporters to members. Personally I find this difficult to believe given the number of demon supporters i know who are MCC members but not MFC members. The club's real challenge though is to develop new markets to expand their base such as Hawthorn did in Tasmania and outer suburban Melbourne around the old Waverley Park where they went from about about 20k to over 50k in about 10 years. We need to find similar niches. Perhaps Darwin might be a good place to start given our fantastic indiginous list, it is an untapped AFL market, but a very knowledgable and fanatical one. I also think new immigrants (particularly Asians) who are currently coming into melbourne in large numbers are a potential market, particularly those who have a knowledge of the MCG's legendary status through cricket eg those from the subcontinent. MFC is THE MCG team, and we all know the quickest way to acceptance in Melbourne is through your football team. I think there are a number of areas we can considerably build our membership base from, and even out do Hawthorn's success

Don't agree. Let Pell and Abbott kick up a fuss - fabulous free publicity, and national too. Would be lampooned all over the country by comedians and late night shows, and build it into something really big, which im sure would appeal to the AFL. We would have to first though get past Dimetriou's obvious personal religious commitment to NOT let this happen. It is about time the AFL Commission over-ruled him on this one.

Fishard, welcome to the Forum. I think this is a great idea. Let's hope the powers that be take it up with the AFL. Demons vs Saints certainly has a certain symmetry about it on Good Friday.

Terrific post, and a great initiative by the club. The framework is very impressive, but as we all know 60-70% of success is in implementation. My guess is the club itself would agree they are slightly behind on expectations of the plan so far this year, but im sure they would be confident of eventual progress once our injuries work their way through the system. To me though my biggest concern is the coaching at the club. I'm still not confident they have a winning gameplan, at least to my mind they have not revealed it on the field yet. I guess though that like anything in business, or sport, you have to trust the professionalism of the Board and the senior managment. They have appointed the Football staff and if they are not satisfied with progress they will take action. We are a long way from that though, but without progress this year I certainly think questions should be asked and if necessary action taken. This is not necessarily on DB himself as he is contracted to the end of 2011, but just like we need to continually renew and improve our list, so we need to in our coaching staff as well.

For those of you who missed this comment in Emma Quayle's post draft blog, I thought it might be worth repeating in view of the doom and gloom on here at the moment: Hi Emma, I am a Melb supporter and very dissapointed in picks 11 and 18. We could have taken Talia and Black and built a very tall and strong spine for a decade, now we have a list full of 180-188 cm mids? Your thoughts? Ed Hi Ed. In my mind they have four of the best young tall fwds/backs in the country with Frawley/Garland in defence and Watts/Jurrah in the forward line. Fingers crossed Garland gets his foot right, he could be a real star. But I was a little surprised they didn't grab one more and add a bit more depth. They obviously really loved Gysberts as a player - Sydney were hot on him at No. 14 and the Demons clearly didn't want to miss him. So you should take confidence from that. I know one thing, in a few years you could have the best midfield in the competition by a long way. Plus Jack Trengove and Luke Tapscott are best mates... should make the settling-in process easier for both of them![b]Emma Quayle Puts the future in perspective in lots of ways. For her to say we could have the best mid field in the comp by some way is quite a statement, and makes the propect of Jack Watts in full flight all the more exciting.

I think givenour forward woes, if garland is even half ready, and plays a full game at Casey next Saturday, he should play round 1, and play forward, I would suggest in the pocket next to the resting Russian, or at full forward. His marking and agility is I think just what we need down there

Brad Green , I think maybe 56. Cameron Bruce, rookie list Aaron Davey, Rookie list Liam Jurrah, pre-season draft, didn't make the first draft... do i need to go on....

I personally think Martin is far better suited to back play than forward. He has the size and the smarts to play well there. I agree with your comments about Warnock. He should take the number two forward not the number 1. River take three. I certainly think some of our back could play forward. River has some marking skills which reminds me on occasion of Royce Hart (not his kicking skill though. I'd definitely play Garland there, and Jamar and Spencer in the ruck, with Jamar resting at FF. With all our injuries we clearly need to do something to ensure we at least kick a competitive score. Against the Dons and WCE we were nowhere near competitive in front of goal

Unfortunately that team is nor going to win anything

I think what most Demon supporters are looking for is not only a competitive team, but glimpses of play that will show us how we will be play winning football in the future. Football with flair, aggression,great skill and relentless uncompromising running. That is probably all we can ask for at this stage, and over time those glimpses will expand in extended periods of play, then in to winning games, then consequative games, then finals footy.... My problem is that i'm not seeing any of those glimpses. Certainly not against the Dons, nor yesterday, possibly against the Crows although I wasn't there. Can anyone give me hope that there have been any more than endless turnovers, missing targets, both at players and goals, and any more than static, conventional play?