The Chazz

Ah Nasher, Pagan's last season as Coach was 2007, when he was sack mid-season by Carlton. His role while coaching Carlton was basically to do the same thing that Bailey had to do at Melbourne; clear out the list, ensure development and positional decisions were in the best interest of the footy club (aka tanking), and was sacked on the back of a 117 point loss in the year that his team "should" have been ready to make a run for the finals. He was coaching the Northern Knights in 2009. When at North, he had a coaching record of around 62%. Like Bailey while at Melbourne, it would be unfair to judge Pagan on his development years at Carlton. He won 2 premierhsips, and in the 10 years at North, he missed the finals once. The only way to be fair to the man is looking at his coaching career as 2 chapters. The first chapter (when he was at North) was up there with the best. The article by Wayne Schwass summed it up well, about how he made the players play for him. His game style, which was known as Pagan's Paddock, isn't too different to what we do now - push the forwards up high so they can run back in to the 50m. I think he could still use this method, plus introduce a press of some kind, and it could be a game plan that is successful. The 2nd chapter of the Pagan Coaching Manual is his time at Carlton, where he did have to start from scratch. Let's face it, Carlton are travelling pretty well now, which who knows the true answer to why this is happening? Did Pagan have Judd playing for him in tha time? Did Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer have 50-odd games under their belt during his term? Admittingly, not too many players from the Northern Knights have made AFL lists in the 2009-2010 seasons. One of my mate's Father, who is a recognised businessman, lived across the road from Pagan. He said that when he was coaching, he was an unbelivably passionate man - if they won Pagan would be out talking to the neighbours, but if they lost, boy, you wouldn't want to have your dog crap on his nature strip! He couldn'tbelieve how passionate and personal he took his role. While it probably sounds like I'm trying to write his job application for him, it is not my intention! I just think that if he is interested, that it would be in the Club's best interest to listen to him. If nothing else, he has a lot more upside than bloody Dean Laidley, but some still get movement downstairs any time they here Laidley's name mentioned.

Retro - the comparison with Bruce is in regards to losing a senior player who signs with another Club for little or no pay difference on what we offered. As far as team selections this week, what's your alternative? Drop Green, Moloney and Rivers as well? Sylvia's form over the past 4-6 weeks has probably warranted an omission, sure he's not on his own, but I think it's a pretty good statement to the rest of the team. Especially when you add Jurrah in there - to me its's a message of you can't get a game just on what you can bring to the team, it's about what you DO bring to the team. I think we are appreciative of his opportunity in convincing him that he is a wanted footballer. We are offering him what we consider a reasonable price, but he doesn't accept it. Who's fault is that? Do you think the Club would purposely offer him a figure below what his true value is worth? Maybe Col rates himself a bit too high. I'm pretty sure other Clubs (except GWS/GC) wont be offering over the odds for him, and that is my point above about him leaving us to go to a different Club for a deal that isn't much different to ours (ie taking what he can get after he leaves). If he walked through my door I would say that obviously he is a required player at the MFC, and we see him having a major role to play in the development of our team. We also would like to think that he will be part of a premiership team wearing the red and blue. However, while we want to be able to give our players the best contracts we can, his contract, just like everyone elses, will have some attractive performance based clauses with the potential to earn him $$$ that probably wouldn't be matched. Rather than saying "here's $500k a year, just do your best and we'll hope the results will come", I'd rather say "here's $350k, plus if you can do this, this and this (B&F position, etc, etc), you can reach your desired $500k". It's quite sad actually, 2 months ago if Col walked through my door I'd probably hump his leg. How things change!

Almost the most disappointing statement in this entire thread.

This is going to sound as cheesy as buggery, and it is probably something that you would do in Grade 3, but the players and administration could take something from it... What is a CLUB? What makes a great CLUB? Are we willing to be a great CLUB or just happy to go along as teh Melbourne Football Team? To break it down; C is for Courage. We have a President who is willing to put his own life on the line for the red & blue, that's courage. L is for Leadership. We seem to be lacking it on and off the ground. U is for Unity. Simon Black's speech when getting his Norm Smith medal highlights how important unity is within premiership teams. B is for Belief. Like Robbie Flower said about his younger days, his team, regardless of who they were playing, would turn up every weekend with the belief that they were going to win. While others will have their own words for the above, these are 4 areas that help make a great CLUB. I want to see the Melbourne Football CLUB as of tomorrow, and know that each area in non-negotiable is terms of dropping off...Ever.

Why? Just becuase he gets dropped means that he should look for another club? If that's his attitude, we don't want him at our Club. I think we should try and keep Col, but he seriously needs to think about what his asking price is. Where we need to be careful is making sure that we treat him with due respect (providing he does the same to us). For example, if he is asking for $500k, and we only offer $300k, then he cracks it and leaves, I'd hate to think that he goes to another club and signs for $300k. I think Cam Bruce's situation was very similar (ie same money, just more potential of a 2nd year at Hawks).

Wouldn't be surprised if they are resting him this week for an all-out assault on the Weagels duo next week. He hasn't looked 100% for a month, perfect time to have a spell.

So, you mean to tell me that if it is a betting agency that you would prefer us not to take the $1.9m? Even if it meant being able to throw a considerable amount at Scully and Malthouse? Sorry, regardless of social/personal impacts on gambling, we all have to accept that it is a part of life, and if they are willing to slip us a cool $1.9m, I'm happy to shake their hands when handing over the cheque. It will be nice to know that I will be donating to the Club in more ways than one! B59, we will never get the Benz with the speed of our current rising from the bottom.

My point was Robbie, that poor Todd has been given the caretaker role, and has openly admitted that he does not want to coach next year. While he is a favourite son, there is a lot of expectation from him, especially from our supporters to see an improved effort and this assumption that because he was a hrd player that he will be able to get our players to do the same thing after spending 1 week with them. He is being worshipped on this site, so I hope for his sake that he can get the players playing tough footy for the remainder of the seasons, not just in selected games like they did under Bails. For the past 4 years, there has been a lot of blame placed on Bailey, and a lot of the players seem to get away with pathetic outings. At least if we play soft footy this week, Todd wont get blamed (and nor should he), so some of these players will stand out to be a major part of the reason Bails essentially failed as a coach.

Is Skoda the new Datsun?

1. billy2803

Att: MFC Please, please don't get Dean Laidley in as head coach. He may have a great football brain, he may have been a tough player with a never say die attitude, but that does not mean he will be an excellent coach, and this has been proved in his time at North. We have a list of great potential, and Dean Laidley is NOT the man who can take them to that next level, or the level after that. If you are considering Laidley, I would rather we take the untried path again. You have clearly stated that an experienced coach would be a preference, well, I know Laidley is experienced, but I don't think it's the experience we are looking for. Regards billy2803

Correct demoniac, and I have stated my reasons why. I'm not saying he will be our saviour, and I'd be expecting him to get a hiding in all honesty, but if wants some bargaining power at the contract table, wouldn't it be a great opportunity to try and earn those extra $$$ he thinks he deserves? Much has been said about all our senior players, they are all on notice. Would you prefer a kid play on him that will get smashed?

I just don't know if Jordie is strong enough. We need someone who can go toe-to-toe with Judd physically, as well as put up with all the blocking off the ball that good teams do when their better players are tagged.

So what's the benchmark for an improved effort? Obviously a 10 goal loss is going to be better than last week, but what will be acceptable? I will be paying close attention to the players endeavour at the contest. If there isn't obvious signs over the next 5 weeks, all it will do is either convince us either way that Bailey was the problem. For the sake of some supporters, I hope that the boys come out this week and physically intimidate Carlton. If they don't, who will be next to blame? Can't be Bailey, wont be St Todd.

It's bloody hard for outsider's to know who the best leaders are at the Club. Leadership extends further than just onfield performance. For example, Jordie Mc has stood tall in recent weeks, but is he actually a good leader? We thought that with Green last year, and look what happened! That said, my leadership group next year would be; Frawley - is still pretty loose off field, and might need this bit of responsibility to settle him down Moloney - is basically a given in the leadership group because of his passion Jones - see Moloney. Differnce is the gap between Chunk's best and worst is far less than Brent's Watts - the one that has truly taken a step forward this year, and I think, like Frawly, will benefit from a leadership position Trengove - for the reasons that everyone has said Green - in the leadership group but not an official title to go with it. He was in it last year I think From there, we need to select a Captain. Someone who is going to impose themselves and lift the team when required. I'd lvoe to see Watts do it, but I think he is still not quite intimidating enough. So, it would be Moloney ©, Trengove & Watts (VC). I think Trengove is about 2 years short of becomming an AFL Captain. In the future, I would like to think the group would be Trengove, Scully, Watts, Grimes and Frawley.

Have I been watching a different player over the past 6 weeks? The bloke I see with number 5 on his back has been far from inspiring in my view. I know he's only a kid, but he's terribly out of form if you ask me.

Great idea re. sub. The game was lsat year when Judd battled but blew us away in the last. From memory Junior was tagging him all game. But I may be wrong that a 34 year old was struggling to run out a full game.

I'd give that honour to Sylvia. A lot was made of his performance on Judd last time they met, and Col is crying for a pay rise, and has had questions raised all week about his abilities and his under-performing at the Club. You want to prove the doubters wrong Col? Here's your greatest chance. You don't have to beat him - few do, but if you can walk off with your head held high, then you have some right to state your case. Judd is strong, fit and can make his opponents look 2nd rate. He will slaughter us if we "try" someone that is not quite ready for a challenge like this. Murphy on the other hand should see McKenzie hanging off him all night like a Roger Davidd suit.

Thanks Lost. I was getting very lonely in the minority group for a while there! I know some strict rules that at my (local) football team that we weer made to follow and the coach at the time was an ex-AFL player, and I can assure you, what Morton did would not have been accepted even in the local league. While it frustrated some of the players that they were forced to leave a very strict lifestyle, it helped them make the Grand Final. The team is now coached by someone of a non-AFL level background, and they are on the bottom! It's about attitude and the culture, which as you hinted, that's what makes a football team.

Well said! I got laughed at when I mentioned Pagan - at least he has 2 flags next to his name and is a ruthless coach. Still coaches the Under 18's too from what I can see.

If the players are putting in 100%, that includes match day, pre-game preparations, and post-game recovery sessions, then they have a leg to stand on when they speak to the President or Vice President. There wouldn't be too many of them that have any right questioning decisions made by administration, especially when they have continually put in poor individual performances. You want respect? Go out there and earn it.

I knew I would be in the minority (was back when I suggested a Twitter ban, so good to see nothing has changed!). I have been involved in footy clubs before, so no amount of pranks mortify me (I have seen some pretty ordinary things). But I can't see how f**king around doing crap like that, in a motel room, the night before a match against a top 2 side, to a player who is trying his guts out for the jumper, can be seen as acceptable behaviour. The idea of going to Geelong the night before is to treat it like an interstate game, and start preparing for the game the night before, but to me, acting like this is totally taking the pi$$ out of the situation. I don't need to get a life as Choko kindly indicated. It's about professionalism which some at the Club ooze, yet so many lack. Cale is one bloke that I would suggest needs to pull his head out of his ass and starting working hard. I'm quite sure that Malthouse wouldn't put up with his inconsistency, especially when he is showing off his maturity for the public to see. But good on Cale, he managed to get in the best (not THE best), playing in the VFL against a team who won by 20 goals. Just what the recruiters had in mind when we picked him up. This is not jumping at shadows whatsoever.

It's about all I've got when I'm constantly reminded by a Carlton-supporting mate when he rattles off which years he has seen a flag. After he sings Happy Birthday to me and asks how many candles are on the cake, all I can say to him is that he would want to hope we don't win 1, becuase when we win 1, there are normally 4 or 5 in a short timeframe after the 1st! It's sad, but it helps!

The thing that stood out for me the most, and it's not news-breaking stuff I'm about to say, but the effort of our kids compared to the senior core. Our kids - which include the obvious Jordie Mac, Wattsy, JT, Chip as well as Nicholson and Strauss, they put it. For the latter 2, yeah sure, they got smashed by their opponent, but if you have a good look at the replay it's because they were running around trying to chase 2 or 3 blokes at a time. It's probably an appropriate thread to bring it up on here, but I'm on the Twitter-ban campaign again! Last night I heard them say on "On The Couch" that the players had met with Club officals twice in the week leading up to the Geelong game, and that mentally, they were stuffed going in to the game. Well, if anyone here can do me a favour and post the photo that Cale Morton put on his Twitter account from the Friday night - the one where he took it upon himself to trash Jack Watts' bed, by turning it upside down, and putting anything that wasn't tied down on it (which included an ironing board). Am I the only supporter that thinks that leading in to a game, any game, especially on the back on your teammates complaining about off-field things within the Club, that this behaviour is totally unacceptable? Were the meetings with HQ that draining that your mental state was in total dissaray? Hey certain players - You think the Admin aren't professional, well, take a look at your teammates.

I was actually told by Yze himself that Robbo was dirty on the Club, and still believes he can play AFL-level football. While I haven't seen any of his work at our home games (except for his duet with Olivia Newton John), I'm not fully sold that he has come back with wings on his back. Very disappointed with Adem. He did tell me that a few of the senior players (when he was one) were disappointed with the fact that players were getting played becuase of their draft number rather than form, and that it stuffed the culture at the club. But, one thing he did say that after the initial shock of being tapped on the shoulder, Junior was more than comfortable with the decision, and was just annoyed (mainly with himself) that he didn't make the first move. Would love Lyon, Stynes & co to get hold of that Tweet from that Twit.