The Chazz

That's an interesting one. Given the drat compensation both GC and GWS have received in the past, who knows what way the AFL would go on this.

You can be quite painful sometimes Jose. I am reading into what has been said, yet I have no evidence? Sorry, I thought using a Malthouse quote was evidence? It's not being mischievous at all. If MM made it up, or if he twisted Neeld's words, then the evidence is inaccurate and I apologise. In no way am I saying that the Club restrict Neeld's visiting rights with anyone, I'm just saying that IF Neeld has comented on certain offield areas of the Club, that I would like to think he knows where the line is. While Malthouse coming out and saying that the club was about everything other than football is pretty much only confirming what we all assumed, I just don't think it's good that he used our coach as his source.

When you have a first year coach and 2 captains aged 20 and 22, it is going to be very difficult. They are the 3 guys at the Club that have to drive this change. 1. Onfield body language. Was commented by Ben Hur in a different thread that walking to their positions before the opening bounce on Saturday, the players had their heads down, etc. The captains should ensure before any player runs out, that all socks are pulled up, that the "whatever it takes" sign is touched by each player when leaving the rooms, and if someone gets caught not doing it (even if they forget), all players have the right to drag them back and make sure they remember. 2. Regardless of what quarter it is, what the score is, there should be no excuse for players not to get around another player after they kick a goal, especially if it is a forwardline player - there should be 5 forwardline players around him, and that's a minimum. 3. Every player should lay at least 1 sheppard per quarter. Very basic stuff, but at quarter time, it's a simple and honest question by the coach "who didn't lay a sheppard?" It is up to that/those players to make up for it in the 2nd quarter. No one should come off at half time without laying at least 2 sheppards. If they do, the red vest awaits. 4. Every forward should make at least 4 tackles per game - minimum of 1 a quarter. If the ball isn't getting down there, then they have every right to get up the midfielders. They are some basic things that need adressing immediately. It won't "change the culture" instantly, but will be good foundations to build on. If no-one wants to follow these rules, they are not welcome at the Melbourne Football Club.

It's a sad state of affairs that after round 3, we are almost inked in to a bottom 4 finish. We were only Jake Spener-ed in at bottom 4 after rounds 1 or 2.

If we end up with pick 2, it won't matter what season Viney has, as, unless the number 1 pick holder bid for him, we will get to use our 2nd round pick for him. As posted in a previous threda, if we end up finish 17th, we will have pick 2, 3, 12-ish, then our 2nd round pick will be Jack Viney.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/craig-chooses-demons-as-his-new-afl-club-20110929-1kyqb.html "He will oversee the various elements of the football department and one of his most important roles will be to act as mentor for new senior coach Mark Neeld." Pretty sure if you have a look at the Director of Coaching job description and the Director of Sports Performance job description, they'd have a lot of duties that are the same or very similar. When Malthouse said during the game on Saturday that "I spoke to Mark Neeld yesterday and he basically told me I'm having to rebuild this club from the ground up", or words to that effect, I am of the view that some things from the inner sanctum should remain confidential. I'm only going by what Malthouse said, so if he's expanding the truth, I can't know that.

Where? When tugging on his jumper when his side is 15 goals up? When not handballing to a player in the goal square when he himself is only 15 metres out, and under his own performace pressure? You can only comment about what you see onfield.

Jose, why is it that anything I bring up has to have a hidden agenda (in your opinion)? I'm just stating my opinion. Anyway, I was under the impression that Craig was employed to play the "director of coaching" role, just with a different, wanky title. As Malthouse now works in the media, I would've thought that there were areas that were not to be spoken about by Neeld. I have no issue with Neeld speaking to Malthouse, but it's the content that has me concerned. I can't help but think that when Malthouse comes out saying that the Club is about "everything other than football", that this could effect any potential sponosrs, members, or even as simple as trying to lure a star player to the club.

I just don't see how you can comment on Green being such a poor leader, when you admit is form was an issue in 2011. What are Trengove and Grimes doing this year, differently to Green last year? I can't see it. Nb. That's not saying any of them are poor leaders.

BBBRPFC?

Who's "tackling"? I'd love to hear his opinion as to why we are no good too.

I've asked a similar question on a different thread (the Dennis Commetti one I think). If Malthouse knows things about behind the scenes at the MFC, is Neeld using him as a "mentor"? If not, WTF is Neeld talking about our issues to him for? If he is Neeld's mentor, WTF is Neil Craig doing?

Malthouse actually commented during the game tha the caught up with Mark Neeld on Friday, and Neeld said to him tha the is basically having to rebuild the club from scratch. It was after that that he went on AFL Gameday on Sunday, and said what has been reported. I've got an issue with this - sure Neeld and Malthouse have a close connection, but what is Neli Craig doing there if Neeld feels the need to confide in Malthouse about such issues?

If this is the case, surely we will do what it takes to win the cup (or lose the match, which ever way you prefer to hear it). In all hoesty, we're better off playing kids and experimenting for the rest of the year. I honestly can't see us finishing last - I think GWS should have that covered, and I'd expect GC to finish 2nd bottom, that means we will have picks 3 & 4 in the draft. Neither GWS or GC will bid for Viney, so that will mean we get to use our 2nd round pick on him. If that were teh case, this will give us a legitimate pick 3 & 4. Carlton got Judd with pick 3 and Kennedy and change, who could we get that is worth that much??? They need to be A grade already.

So Richmond beat us by 59 points, the Pies beat Richmond by 21 points, this is one of those rare occasions where you just need to look at the facts in front of you. That said, they will beat us by 80 points, and I'm quite confident of that. Using that formula, West Coast beat us by 108 points, but they only beat GWS by 81 points, therefore GWS will beat us by 27 points. Not often you can use this formula, but in both these cases, I think it could be pretty accurate!

So in Green's case, poor form = bad leader, but in Grimes/Trengove's case, poor form = good leaders not playing well? As we are all part of the outer sanctum, and do not get to experience the true inner sanctum, in particular regarding the leadership of players, I can't help but be disappointed with the way some players get special treatment on here.

Could the same be said about Green in 2011?

It's not about me being right and you being wrong BH, it's the fact that our coach made an error that has the potential to hinder Trengove's development. The main point about observing their body language more than any other players was for the fact that we can't expect guys like Rivers to show improvement in this area, especially if our new captains aren't, and even moreso given that Rivers was dumped from the leadership group. I was more about highlighting those players that aren't toeing the line so that Jack and Jack could deal with them individually, and start making inroads in to this culture change that they are going to be responsible for.

I will blame Neeld for 2 things. 1. His open comments about it being a blank canvas when he arrived at the club. If I were a new coach, taking over a team that had suffered a 186 point loss in 2011 (which someone indicated at being just 8 games ago, or 5 games before he took over), I'd want to know what happened on that day. Who was responsible, what players led the onfield non-performance. Regardless of who or how many, I would've delisted them. I would not want that/those player/s in my team going forward, and I would address that issue at the AGM in front of members/supporters. I'm sure they (us supporters) would've appreciated the honesty, and in a lot of ways, would've been more accommodating of poor performances in 2012 (if it meant we had to get rid of certain senior players). Regardless of what the issues were/are, players should never ever make a statement in such a fashion. 2. Appointing the co-captains earlier than first intended (from memory, wasn't it planned for before Round 1 of the season proper?). While NAB Cup is just that, it would've given Neeld more of an idea of what certain players onfield leadership is like. Based on what I saw in the NAB Cup games, it was evident that Jones would've thrived on being given the role for 12 months, and as we've seen after 3 games this year, he's probably the only one that could stand up in front of his team at 3/4 time and give the rest of the players a good old fashioned spray. There has been nothing to date from our co-captains that would inspire the rest of the playing group. I'm sorry, but we bloody need this. When the chips are down, I want to see both Grimes and Trengove go in to a centre bounce and make a statement. I think Neeld has them so focused on structures and game plans that they don't have the confidence to do the "captain thing" and stop the rot. Where were our captains on Saturday when we needed them? Trengove had been moved to the forward line, and Grimes was playing in the back line.

Won't be that drastic, but I just don't know what it will do for the confidence of the players. In Round 1, the greater AFL community were hoping that we got up, but the players failed. This week, there will be a big build up again, and if there is ever a "game for Jimmy", it has been tagged that this is it. If the players were again to produce a pathetic performance, especially with the AFL community again willing us on, it won't be pretty. Anyway, my changes for this week; Out: Bail, Morton, Bate In: Max Sievers, Isaac Place, Riley Bower http://auskick.nab.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52&Itemid=4

BH, I posted last week (can't remember what thread) about wanting to hear from someone at the game to comment about the body language of our 2 captains. I take it from your post it wasn't great?

Depends on which Moloney, Sylvia and Jurrah turn up. If all 3 "Jekyll's" turn up, they may be a 6-8 goal difference, but too many times one or all of them turn up as "Hyde's".

This is my issue Demoniac. Neeld is concentrating on a game plan that won a premiership 2 years ago, that we currently don't have the cattle (for what ever reason ie skill, fitness, development). By the time we address these issues, is the press going to be a factor? Is hugging the boundary the best way to win a game of footy? We don't know, but one thing we do know is that game styles change, and I just hope that the one Neeld has in mind is with a (twitching) eye on 2014, rather than what worked in 2010. Sorry Deemort, but that's a cop-out. I'm quite sure if Malthouse was coach that he wouldn't be using that. I'm a firm believer that while changes have been made, that when you have spent the last 4 seasons rebuilding, that any change should be seen as a side step, not a step backwards. The teams that take backward steps in this day and age will find it very, very difficult to catch up.

It's a major concern WYL, and I admire that you continually put your hand in your pocket above and beyond what you, or any other supporter of this club should have needed to. The concern for me is Neeld. Is he the right man to bring this team from wherever we currently are, to get us in to the Top 4, and ultimately, winning premierships? I don't know, he may be, he may not. A lot here have confidence in him, but there are so many aspects of this club where I have lost confidence, that Neeld, for me, is a risky investment. From a heartbroken, zero confidence supporter like myself, I understand what he said in his presser the otehr day about the Melbourne supporters needing to stick together. I just can't buy it I'm sorry, not from a guy that hasn't had any experience in such a major task. This is very unfair of me I fully appreciate, but my feeling would be totally different if Malthouse was the one sitting up in the MFC polo fronting the media telling the supporters to hang in. My fear/concern is that the job is too greater task for a first year coach, that even if we gave him 3-5 years to steer us in the right direction, that it is a strong possibility that from the commencement of the great rebuild (ie when Bailey took over), that around 9 or 10 years since then, we are still no better off. While it will no doubt sound negative, I'm just not willing to put myself in a position of false belief with this club at the moment. I'm sick of saying our premiership window will be open in 2 or 3 years time. I want some accountability, so put some due dates on it so we all know where we are heading. This famous Red & Blue Print has to have KPI's that need to be met in order for it to be effective, well, I wan't to be assured that the areas that aren't being met, because let's face it, there HAS to be areas, that those responsible are accountable for their actions, regardless of what level they are at. I will continue to support the Melbourne Football Club. I invest a lot emotionally in this club (probably too much in the truth be known). I just have great concerns where we are heading, and who is driving us. If you call me "the sky is falling" person, well, sobeit, it's just where I stand at the present.

Having 4 players to play those roles doesn't assure success, but I think without them, you're well behind the 8-ball. As I stated in my post, for the big 4 to work at any club, you need to have a good midfield. Hopefully by the time Watts is playing consistently as our bigger forward, we will have a midfield to match it. It is a big balancing act, we need better midfielders in our team, but if we have them and not the big 4, history shows that you struggle winning flags.