Dr. Gonzo

How the **** has this got to 108 pages??? I gave up at 23 pages this morning it was around 43 pages now it's at 108??? I don't even want to imagine how much back and forth there has been over something that is a non-issue. Crazy way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

Jesus Christ....

Agile, speedy, athletic, big - only one problem, he's not a very good footballer.

I disagree - floating pick 4 for Wellingham/Dawes then accepting pick 13 for Dawes is still a massive win for the Pies. It's that old politics trick of wanting a tax rise of 5% and floating a hike of 10% so when you sting the rubes for the 5% you wanted anyway they think they've won.

No that is completely and utterly incorrect. It goes like this; GC nominate Viney We take him with pick 3 F/S nominations close Trade week begins We offer pick 4 for mini draft pick to GWS The two have nothing to do with each other.

If we give up pick 4 for these two I will not renew my membership and will not go to another game until we start winning and playing consistently. I have been a member for 24 years but could not hack giving up pick 4 for these two especially when one of them has made it clear he doesn't want anything to do with us. I would much rather wait another year and get Hogan into the side than go for the short term approach and get these two B/C-graders in.

Exactly. Having a good culture doesn't guarantee success. But you would be hard-pressed to find a successful club that doesn't have a good culture. Even the WCE teams of 05-06 may not have had the best off-field culture but that doesn't mean they didn't have a dedicated culture on the track and on the field. Ben Cousins used drugs but also left nothing on the field and pushed himself to the point of exhaustion and physical sickness just to make sure his team was successful.

Yes but the point I was making is that it's easier to show faith in players when they already have the runs on the board and in this case not just a few runs but a couple of centuries. I was comparing this to some former MFC players (particularly under Daniher) who coasted along on reputation when based on their history they had no right to as they constantly wilted in big games when the pressure was on.

Are you being purposefully obtuse or do you just fail in basic comprehension?

It is concerning that we've been spouting all year about how we have the cap space and the money in the bank to be a player in the off-season only to find out that nobody wants to even talk to us when we get here. Schwab & McLardy are the ones who used this term "war chest" so you'll forgive the members if they sit here a little perplexed now that it seems the only players we look like landing are a small forward who couldn't crack the seniors in a team that finished 6th and a 2nd tall forward who has been all but pushed out of his original club after a mediocre year at best. Neither of these seem particularly thrilled to come here either. It is only day 4 but as other deals are made and rumours about trades surface it is obvious we will be lucky to land a decent player and probably no one other than Byrnes & Dawes.

Hmm Adam Goodes, dual Brownlow Medallist, premiership player struggles for form coming back from his first long term injury and is persisted with due to having the runs on the board. Compared to MFC legends Yze, Johnstone, Bruce, White, Robertson etc who for the better part of 10 years got games on a reputation that was undeserved due to crumbling in big games when the pressure was on.

WTF? That's a bit random considering I haven't posted on the last few pages of this thread - neither I assure you (don't even know who "bubsy" is?) I used to post under Demonic Ascent which is also my name on Big Footy if you must know. Pick 4 for Dawes and Wellingham would be a massive fail for MFC and if they did this I don't know if I can be bothered wasting more time and money on the club until they can show they're serious. I doubt they would be this stupid but you never know.

You just don't get it. Do you seriously think all AFL clubs have a good culture even when they allow their senior players to coast along and get games on reputation, don't hold them to account to put in the hard yards on the track, do the team things in games, put their bodies on the lines etc (BTW I'm talking about the MFC here)

Yes, of course you can. Having a good culture doesn't mean you will win every game or always be up the top. But it does determine how you respond to poor results.

Of course every player wants to win the difference is in what they are willing to do to get there. What are they willing to sacrifice to achieve it. How hard are they willing to work for it. The environment of the club (which as BH rightly points out is set by the players/LG) sets the expectations for this which is what helps to define the culture. There is a difference between the players and clubs that want to win and the ones that have to win.

Haha was about to post the same thing. Stating you found the 2012 GF boring and then saying you were looking forward to the "excitement" of car racing is hilarious. Nothing more boring than watching a man sit in a car and race against another man sitting in a car. If you didn't like Saturday's game then you don't really like football. Good football isn't just watching someone kick a ball with silky skills. It's guts and determination and what the Americans call "smashmouth" football. Saturdays GF was brilliant as was 2011, 2010, 2009 especially and 2008. The old Swabs under Roos was boring at times as they would try and slow the game down at all costs. This Sydney team is different they hit the packs hard to open it up not just to lock it in.

Martin will be lucky to be on an AFL list after next season. Take the blinkers off.

No one has indicated how they think we might be able to get Butcher. Is he actually on the table? As far as I can tell he signed a 2 year contract extension last year so is contracted until the end of next season. Has he actually said he wants out of Port or is this just another trademark Demonland fantasy trade?

The funny thing is I can't see Collingwood wanting Martin now that Lynch is going there but I guess if they lose Dawes they may want him but I just don't see it.

He said a proper source - ba-doom tish!

Yeah heard that - could be best for both club and player, not sure who would want him or what we would even get though to be honest. Morton, Cook, Gysberts hmm I'm sensing a theme here.

Martin is not our best ruckman, he's probably not even third or fourth best being behind Jamar, Clark, Gawn when he's fit, Spencer & even possibly Fitzpatrick in coming years. He's a pretty terrible footballer who can do some athletic things on occasions.

It's not boring to watch when you're winning.

I don't particularly want Dawes but if we got him as a replacement for Martin I'd take it in a heartbeat. I agree with the posters above I just don't see what all the fuss is with Martin. He can plug a gap down back, up forward or in the ruck but can't really do any of them any well at all. He is an athlete first and footballer second and he is not a very good footballer at that. Dawes can only play forward but at least he can do it to a satisfactorily level. Having said all that I doub Collingwood would want Martin now that they have Lynch.

Do you actually understand what we're talking about? Culture is the environment and expectations that exist at the club, I can't see how it is so difficult to understand. BTW Nietzsche would be better - nothing in life worth anything comes without struggle.