Dr. Gonzo

I didn't say a majority of posters assume the players/families are fabricating their stories, I said "the majority of assumptions being made are that the former players and their partners/families are fabricating their stories."

It makes sense both sides will have lawyers giving them advice on their statements/responses but I would be staggered if lawyers for the opposing parties were allowed to cross-examine. Perhaps they will be and I am just ignorant of the process but I would be shocked if that were the case.

I don't think anyone here is assuming guilt, or at least not the overwhelming majority of posters. What they are saying though is that with what has come out it is not looking good for those involved. Three independent stories that appear to corroborate each other as to the behaviour of the senior officials at the club, comments in The Age over the weekend indicating "at least one former assistant coach has corroborated some of the claims. At least one former player manager involved at the time has indicated his willingness to back up some elements of the review"; it seems like at least some of what is being alleged will be proven correct. Remember the players in question did not initiate these complaints for their own benefit, the club initiated this investigation off their own bat (following comments earlier in the year by Rioli and his partner) to speak to past and present indigenous players as a fact finding mission to determine what actions, if any, the club should take to improve their processes and governance. Rather than assuming guilt it seems the majority of assumptions being made are that the former players and their partners/families are fabricating their stories. Why?

Through a normal complaints investigation process the complainant provides their statement which is then investigated. Allegations are put to the accused who provide their own statement, witnesses are provided to give their own statements/testimony and the investigative team pieces it together to provide their report and recommendations. I don't think it is commonplace for complainants in internal investigations to be cross-examined by lawyers. This isn't a criminal or civil investigation it's an investigation of an employer/organisation.

When you say "aboriginal members" do you mean anyone of aboriginal descent?

A witness is someone who gives evidence or provides testimony. In this instance it would be someone providing evidence/testimony to the investigation.

I read the posts/thread. In a thread about an article by Russell Jackson you make comments about journos being unaccountable keyboard warriors. The person you responded to was implying that journos are unaccountable throwing out false allegations and the real victims are the accused perpetrators. In this case Clarkson, Fagan and Burt.

How do you think this should play out? In any situation there will be a period between allegations and findings, it is impossible to ensure the anonymity of the accused. Considering the severity of the allegations and the current positions Clarkson, Fagan and Burt hold it is completely natural for them to be stood down while these allegations are investigated.

You seriously believe three independent players/families completely fabricated these stories? Their perception of events may differ but I find it hard to believe they just made them up out of thin air. At the very least there should be corroborating evidence of the partner who contacted the police to try and speak with the player who the club had isolated and cut off communication with. Caroline Wilsons article yesterday indicates there will be some witnesses coming forward to corroborate at least some of the allegations; https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/we-were-watching-those-blokes-break-the-hawthorn-women-who-would-not-stay-silent-20220919-p5bj8u.html "While the review undertaken by Egan focused upon a group of Indigenous players and their families it has now emerged that at least one former assistant coach has corroborated some of the claims. At least one former player manager involved at the time has indicated his willingness to back up some elements of the review."

Just to clarify, are you calling Russell Jackson a keyboard warrior, a "personality" rather than a journo? https://www.abc.net.au/news/russell-jackson/12422852

Why would you want to? Doing the community a service keeping that bile behind a paywall.

You doubt what will happen? I provided a link to a story which details the changes implemented by Collingwood since the Do Better report was published. Lumumba was unhappy with the extent of it (I believe he wanted to be involved in the governance of any truth-telling process which the club pushed against) but changes have been implemented.

This is what you're referring to https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-employee-jason-mifsud-revealed-as-source-of-racism-allegations-directed-at-demons-coach-mark-neeld/news-story/06b85b6b49cdeb04f094f8d7e589f965 Judging by that article alone it seems the rumour was false and that Davey quashed the rumours. I still would like to see MFC commission it's own report into the welfare of past players and specifically indigenous players if only to absolve the club of any wrongdoing if nothing else.

https://www.zerohanger.com/one-year-on-from-the-do-better-report-have-the-pies-changed-their-ways-117099/

This is cult like behaviour. The AFL needs to undertake an independent review of each and every club, probably down to and including the feeder systems for junior players, to determine whether there are any other organisations with similar issues relating separately to both the welfare of indigenous players and all players as a whole. I am disgusted that this type of thing could be going on at our footy clubs. Edit: oh the review should include head office too, particularly considering the issues at AFL house a couple of years back.

But I bet you they'd welcome back Hird with open arms 🤣

They are trained to win flags for the MFC. Once the MFC was knocked out of finals everything should have gone towards preparation for 2023. TMac came back way too early to try and play finals for MFC in 2022. Once that was done no need to keep persisting.

We still have Turner coming through who looked pretty good in the half a game he played against the Pies.

Yep hopefully if we take any learnings out of this season it is that we can't rely on defence alone to win games. We played the season with Lever/May/Petty in defence and didn't go close to a flag. We need to capitalise on our forward 50/midfield dominance and moving Petty into attack would be the smartest move.

It's interesting they bring this up just after signing a new rights deal. Surely they wouldn't be adding extra games for nothing so the TV broadcasters must have already been promised these extra games to help bump the price up. So it's to be held in Sydney/NSW but no sides have home ground advantage? So will Syd/GWS be playing each other? I'm sure WCE and Freo will be happy to have to make another cross country trip for an additional game where they are not getting an additional home game in return. The problem is it is just another money grab, how about focusing on the inequities in the fixture instead of creating even more?

What a stupid [censored] idea. Bring in Tassie, 19 teams, 19 rounds (9 home/9 away, 1 bye) alternating home and away each year. Everyone travels to WA, SA, Qld and NSW once per year. Makes too much sense which is why the AFL will never do it.

Or sending a great young key defender to the forward line where he becomes the greatest goalkicker in the club's history (Neitz).

Nah the Cats are alright, plenty of other teams I hate way more than them - Collingwood, Essendon, West Coast, Hawthorn for starters. Geelong are pretty inoffensive in the scheme of things - obviously 186, getting belted on our 150th anniversary etc but I don't mind them, even if I wasn't married to a Cats supporter. They were fantastic to watch during their heyday, Scott and Dangerfield are annoying but I dislike Sydney far more with all the free hits they get.

Regardless of the extent of the injury, once we were knocked out by Brisbane he should've been placed in cotton wool. Idiotic decision to let him keep playing/training for Casey.