Akum

True!

These three seemed to have a very good understanding between them in the footage of the 2008 U18 carnival.

His shoulder was OK? Was he marking overhead?

Not as a coach. I've lived in the western suburbs for over 25 years and have had a fair amount of community involvement, and the Bulldogs do a lot of work in the community here in various ways, especially schools etc. Like a number of Bulldogs past & present, West has a great reputation out this way, not just as a player, but also as a person. The reason I'd expect him to have a lot to offer as a midfield coach is because he was such a highly-respected player, but not overly blessed with skills or athleticism, he just had outstanding intelligence & footy smarts, and he was absolutely unbeatable at clearances. The link in the chain that I don't know about is his communication & teaching ability - how good he is at putting what he was so good at into words and getting it across to others. And I don't know if he'd have the all-round attributes that are needed for coaching, his skills might be confined to midfield. But it's the midfield, especially clearances, where we really need to improve. I don't know much about Josh Mahoney either, what his capabilities are.

'Bub, I agree with everything in your OP except for this bit. I don't think we're on anybody's radar at the moment, most commentators and so-called experts don't give us a second thought. They go on about the young players at Freo, WC, Kangas, even Toigs, but they know less than nothing about our young players. If there are any expectations, it's that we'll again finish at or near the bottom, maybe we might be marginally less bad than this year, but nothing more. So the expectations are all from within the club & supporters, which is probably the way it should be for now.

Amen. Westy is top-shelf for integrity & character. I think he's more likely to be swayed by the promise of a FT Assistant position rather than the coin. If he's got a solid enough arrangement with the Dees, I'd say he'd stay, especially if he's offered a FT Assistant role here. I believe he'd take the same role here, even if it was less money. But if we haven't locked him in and he's only on a year-by-year arrangement and we're not prepared to offer him FT, he may well take the Freo offer because it's more solid & secure, not because it might be more lucrative. Westy's worth hanging on to for mine.

Sorry to push this thread back onto Scotty West, but there were a number of attributes of his playing career that I think would serve him well as a coach: (1) He rarely if ever played a bad game, even if his team was getting smashed, and especially when it was close. (2) He showed immense courage but intelligently, never recklessly. (3) He was at his best in clearances & stoppages. (4) He was never sublimely talented, or blessed with supreme athletic ability. He became such an effective player largely on the back of his extreme footy smarts - reading the play, great hands, intelligent positioning etc. I'd say that the "thinking/innovative side of his game" was his key playing attribute, and if he can impart just a little of that to our current crop of young mids, he's a huge asset. Wouldn't necessarily want him to be the kicking coach, though! I know less about Mark Williams - what's his CV?

Yeah sure, but if we ever get to dishing it out, I'd be really ashamed if we whinge & sook the way that they have when they get a bit of it back. There's an arrogance that comes with strength of character, and an arrogance that's just empty.

Still don't have a lot of time for a club/coach/player that's been more than happy to dish it out but can't take it back. Pathetic.

The thing about Col is that his strength makes him a harder prospect to tag than, say, Flash. On the other hand, he can be needled more easily. Thought that the extra week "team suspension" really sent the right message - "you are such an important part of this team that we just can't afford any brain snaps in future" - that he seems to have received loud and clear. But next year will tell because he'll really get some attention from the game's mongrels.

Look, I think we're a long way from being "flawless". But we're not that far away from being "good enough". The Saints showed on Sunday that they've got their share of flaws too; so does every team in fact. I noticed that we scored more off turnovers than they did. If they reproduce anything like that performance in their finals they'll be out in straight sets, which would be a huge pity. But frankly, I didn't think we were capable of some of the things we did in that game, no matter who was the opposition. Some of the ball movement was beautiful, we rebounded well out of defence, and (what surprised me the most) we were able on many occasions to keep possession and be patient until something opened up and then use the opening to move the ball deep into attack. Our one massive glaring weakness is clearances, where we lose every single week, and which links to inside-50s, which are embarrassingly low every week. Our improvement in 2010 will be directly proportional to our improvement in clearances. When we're good enough to get into the top half in clearances, that's when we're good enough to get into the 8. It could be next year with all the pacy young mids we will have to add to this year's team, but it's more likely to take a few years. But clearances will be the yardstick.

Let me assure you, young Jack was mighty p***ed off at having to bring down the curtain early on his season for his own good. Next year he'll devote his whole attention to MFC, and with a full preseason he'll be ready to eat the footy and half a goalpost by the bounce of the ball Rd 1 2010. Remember, he would have been eligible for this year's draft.

Could be a very interesting preseason comp if it helps answer these questions

This is more in line with Sydney's preferred way of going about it IMO. They're getting 3 known quantities for one unknown, and they'd think they could get more out of Miller than we can (might be right too). Valenti & Jones are the sorts of players they like, and while both have tons of upside (for them), they may struggle for game time in what will be a very competitive midfield (for us). On the one hand, I love both Valenti & Jones and wish we didn't have to give up players of this calibre and type. On the other hand, realistically if we want such a huge prize as a first round pick, it's going to have to hurt real bad!

I'm not so sure, they've shown a lot more faith in trading than drafting in the past. I can't remember them ever having done a "from-the-bottom-up" rebuild either - if they did, they'd risk losing a largish chunk of their supproter base while they rebuilt, and they can't afford to do that with GWS18 coming. And it's terrible timing to be starting a rebuild this year, even though they have had a number of important players leave one way or another this year. But you may be right. In which case if they are rebuilding they'd have to be trading FOR picks (first or second round), rather than trading AWAY picks - picks 6 & 22 and so on aren't going to give them nearly enough.

Timely question. A lot depends on whether we take Butcher or a mid (Trengove) at #2, and who is still available. My ideal for #18 would be Talia but he's very unlikely to still be available at #18. In fact, we could even consider taking Talia instead of Butcher at #2 IMO. But the most likely scenario is Trengove at #2 and the best remaining tall at #18.

Good writing. Sums up the feelings as well as anything I've seen.

Fascinating post on all sorts of levels! Other threads have mentioned the 8-year gap between Riewoldt & Kosi and GF contenders - so it could have been a 2 or 3 year gap as it was for the Hawks. On the other hand, perhaps the Hawks might be looking at a few "also-ran" years, as did the Saints after they promised so much in 2004. I still think they ambushed the whole comp last year with their "rolling zone" which took them further than they would have got on ability alone, and then they ambushed the Cats (who choked badly) in the GF. Now that other sides have worked out how to bust open their rolling zone, this year is more a reflection of their true ability. Their problem is that the club will now feel that they've underperformed if they don't finish top 4, rather than accepting that they over-performed in 2008 and still have a lot more work to do. Perhaps it also underlines the importance of getting things right off the field from base to apex, and not just papering over the cracks. You get the feeling that the Saints might be better set up as a club in 2009 than they were in 2004. Though they've been extremely flaky in the past 3 weeks.

I was talking about performance as well as intent. Weagles & Port were deplorable and we beat them by only a few goals after being clearly the better team all day. But against Freo I think we put it all together. That's the game I'd like to take into 2010.

He was one of the first to mob Wheats after his supergoal in the final qtr. He's not only a sublimely talented footballer, but even after 9 games is already an essential part of what defines the team and the club.

IMHO the only game where the team was really "let off the leash" was against Freo. And I like the way we've flown under the radar. The commentariat only see us in terms of tanking, and a few of them have some sort of dim awareness that we had an injury or two but only to players who wouldn't get a guernsey for any of the top 8. They all talk about Freo & WC & Toiges having "a great young list", and at this stage nobody (Martin Flanagan excepted) has the slightest clue about the size of our potential upside.

I really like the look of Strauss, and I think he'll give us plenty in the years ahead. His spectacular run from deep in defence in one if the Scorps' games which he capped off with a goal is one of my enduring memories from this year, in demonstrating how much latent upside we've still got to come. If Blease & Strauss start 2010 fully fit, each of them may well deliver more to MFC than NikNat would have (NikNat will be a star, but we wouldn't have kept him for more than the obligatory 2 years if we'd got him). Another great OP.

You could say that we were probably a Grimes and a Warnock away from knocking off the premiership favourites!

You gotta love the Scorps. Fantastic effort from them in the last 6-8 weeks with so few of their MFC players available, and not a significant contribution from any who played against Box Hill by the look of it. KC, do you have any idea how many Dees have qualified to help you guys out in the finals? And did Newton not play? He wasn't in the Dees (was he emergency?), he's not on the injury list.

Who was the woman in the crowd that Robbo hugged after his goal? Did he know her, or did he just pick her out? And to receive Brock's handball, he actually had to outpace Montagna, too. Had no idea he was such a speedster. And loved it that Wheats got mobbed after his goal - a great "give-and-shepherd" by young Jake too.