Little Goffy

Well, at least West Coast can now say they've identified who is the cause of their problems.

In SEN's system, Petracca's rating of 44.1 includes ten points for inside 50s, 6 for goal assists, and 17 for score involvements. So, 33 out of his 44 points is coming from what are basically attacking midfield efforts. It does reflect that he is the most effective attacking midfielder in the game, but it doesn't turn him into a forward. Pickett's rating reflects the fact that he is a small forward doing his all-round job extremely well and people need to get all the way off his back. Seriously, it is 2023 and there are still people who think small forwards have failed if one in three of their games don't sparkle on the stat sheet. Bailey Fritsch is the best medium forward in the game. The issue is that Curnow, Lewis, Cameron, Walker, Finlayson, and Daniher are the bulk of the top ratings, and in the old baseball term, their 'value above replacement' is pretty significant if their replacements are Van Rooyen and Smith. Looking at the same ratings process for Tom McDonald and Ben Brown in 2021, you (roughly) get; McDonald - 36 Brown - 39 They are both a level outside the top-20 group, but that's two key position talls making a very good contribution. In contrast, Van Rooyen is going basically solo as a tall forward - our only player over 190cm to kick more than ten goals so far this season. His rating; Van Rooyen - 30 He's a very respectable young forward, but we are 'missing' about 45 points worth of tall forward contribution compared to our own 2021 team, and the key forwards were not the superstars of that team. So, there's your answer!

I edited your comment because I just can't resist a 'GWS have no fans' joke.

You can make a case that he is genuinely half the player he was back in 2018. FootyWire comparison - Gaff 2023 vs 2018 Even that set of stats mask how bad things have gone for him because his form really, profoundly, dropped from round 7 on.

Impressive effort by the OP to use a '5 most improved' list to include three separate digs at the coach. Anyway, our most improved; Rivers - from a respectable starting point to a serious player. Chandler - from question mark to exclamation mark, just needs to recalibrate his radar back to the early season level. Salem - not sure it counts when he's already shown it in a grand final, but the return to form is a big deal. A few others like Bowey, Van Rooyen, and of course McVee seem more like 'the kids are going along nicely' than any specific or surprising improvement. I'd also say that Viney reached his new level during a stellar mid-season period last year and has simply carried on with it. I don't see the alleged improvement from Sparrow. I think he's just pushing along at a level, which is legitimate AFL level but not outstanding. Just quietly, I think Tomlinson should get a mention among the improvers. Fingers crossed he re-establishes himself in the team after basically two seasons of injury and post-injury poor form.

In unrelated news, West Coast are currently loading up on attractive admin staff.

Kade Chandler over the season has kicked 15.11, which is pretty respectable for a pressure forward. But then look at this! 14 goals, 2 behinds ... then ... 1 goal, 9 behinds.

I'd say it's a bit better than average, at least, but I agree with the frustration. My worry is that we're in a little bit of the same trap that Terry Wallace put Richmond in - players locked too much into 'type'. I love Langdon and respect Hunter's contribution (more than many on here, in fact), but I do worry that they are too explicitly cast into the outside runner role. I have exceptional patience for Spargo because I see that he plays a role and he has some magic moments, but he needs to be getting much more involved, much more often. Similarly, Nibbler has my full respect but he isn't delivering a 'complete' footballer. Sparrow is a fine young footballer but not outstanding. Brayshaw is many good things but doesn't have any attributes that make it complicated for an opposition to manage him when on the ball - he can be contained. Harmes actually complements our midfield mix reasonably well given his bit of dash and his ability to tag, but hasn't been able to get into form this season. If you compare all that to the kind of extra rotation options that the super-midfields had, and you see the issue. Brisbane four, then five top-level mids, West Coast with four and many perfectly capable extras, and Geelong... Geelong at peak had perhaps 8 players who if called upon could all be first-choice midfielders. On closer inspection, we actually have limited quality of midfield-capable types once you get past the Petracca-Oliver-Viney champions. Who knows, maybe Goodwin has actually been doing a masterful job of using system to minimise the weaknesses in our list?

First, I would like to personally thank Kane Cornes for guaranteeing that Gawn and Grundy will now each deliver stellar results for the second half of the season. But more seriously, I do think we need to let go of the 'ruckman can automatically be rotated to the forward line' myth. Gawn does his best work reading the play and providing a relief option both intercepting opposition attacks at roughly half-back, and contested for our boring-but-necessary long kick to the wing out of defence. Giving the injury interruption to his fitness base I think it is also notable that playing that role doesn't require him to be constantly doing long runs up and down the ground. Grundy is a classic mobile ruckman, winning clearances and gathering disposals around the ground. He's never been a forward nor even a prolific marker, though he can do it fine when needed. He should be roving the midfield and half forward lines giving a connection option or ready to interfere with the opposition's boring-but-necessary long kick out of defence. This demands more running but like the Gawn role I've described, it doesn't require junk running the length of the ground just to keep turning up at contests. Both can be slipped forward on occasion to mix things up and confuse opposition defence structures, or when their ruck opponents puffs out and can't follow them, but neither are ruck-forwards. Personally I think we should be giving them their main zones of operation and allowing them to loiter there, maximising both their time on ground so that other players who should be running around frantically can take more rests. When Grundy came to us I thought I'd seen the last of Gawn having to go on 70m runs and then back again just to be in position for a couple of contests. I thought we'd seem him taking contested marks with full lungs and fresh limbs. I thought we'd be extended both Gawn's and Grundy's career by dramatically reducing their running loads by zoning them to different areas. At this stage I think we've tried to use double the ingredients to make one giant pancake spread out too thin, cooking unevenly and breaking every time you flip it, instead of having two perfectly balanced pancakes.

Makes me reflect on the infamous 186 game. Even Jones and Frawley were only 24, and we had a stack of kids playing against Geelong at their epic best. Brad Green was our only player with 150+ games experience. West Coast went out there with Shuey, Sheed, Yeo, Gaff and Darling over 150 and then Kelly (who will be 29 by the end of this season), Duggan, Barass, Hunt, and Petresvski-Seton in the 100-150 game range. Even the relatively younger Petrucelle, Allen and Witherden are all 24. The real fear for West Coast is that those thirteen established players were their 'best' (to insult the term, but you know what I mean) on the day. The players 23 and under gave close to nothing - which is understandable from young players in the dire circumstances today, but also terrifying for the future of the club. As far as list cycle and profile goes, West Coast are where Melbourne was in 2007, but... worse. Significantly worse.

I'm getting really, really nervous now. West Coast are clearly bad enough, are Sydney good enough?

Anybody bothering to keep an eye on the Sydney-West Coast game, please set your 186 alert level to 'watch and act'.

Sometimes you just gotta lean into the stereotypes, hey.

It barely slowed Daisy!

I'd say Jake Riccardi is one to monitor, and please don't say I'm only noticing because he just kicked 5 against Freo! I understand that was an unusual game for him. He's a worker, not a star. He's got a big body at 195cm and 97kg, and can take contested marks and compete for contests. But what I love is that he has got a good defensive and pressure work ethic - his tackles inside 50 rate is top 25 in the AFL, and slightly ahead of Kade Chandler just to put some punctuation on it. This was also the feature that made Tom McDonald so valuable at his best, and mitigated the downside of his poorer games. Riccardi will be 24 by the end of the year and could be a very cost-effective role-player. A future tall forward group of Van Rooyen - Riccardi - Jefferson would seem like a quality full deck to me. Plenty of contests, leads and hunting. Plenty for the small forwards to work with and Fritsch can find a way to use them all as decoys, I'm sure! Grundy is a mobile player, not a key target, Gawn is better (as in, more magnificent) around the ground than forward, and Petty has his best future clocking up All-Australian seasons leading our defence for a decade to come.

Does anyone else here like white spirits generally but cannot, simply cannot even get whiff of gin without genuinely feeling foul? I think it is a phenomenon similar to how some people are massively repelled by coriander and simply cannot believe anyone would let it into their digestive system.

I'm not sure what you mean here? Can you elaborate?

SNAP! Had exactly the same thought.

It's a bit of an epic effort of manufactured victimhood to turn 'A club is considering making less use of it's mascot image in branded material' into 'the woke police are coming for everything'. I mean... ...any questions? http://www.demonwiki.org/gallery270

Very, very generous with the concept of 'discuss' there, Redleg. Maybe even a little generous with 'topic' in some cases. But this is certainly one of the healthier primordial oozes of the internet and should be celebrated as such.

Huh? Was that a callback to a different conversation I missed?

Oliver, Petty and Bowey giving signs they will all be available next game or very soon. A-rangers assemble!

This thread made me go back and watch a highlights video, and I'm having thoughts - When May got turned around in that early goal, McVee could have been getting back to support and cover the break a bit better, but only really put the sprint on once the Collingwood player was already breaking away from May. Easy oversight to make, also easy to correct by habit over time. May had a number of flawed moments but didn't give away anything easy. He and Lever were also pressed waaaay up the ground from defence on many occassions, and coped well in the chaos. A remarkable effort to keep Collingwood to such a low score, using such an aggressive tactic. Exemplified by May managing to break even in a three-on-one in defence. Maynard should send a thank you note to Van Rooyen and the Melbourne legal team, because without them that late whack to Brayshaw's head in a marking contest would have been three weeks. Smith's tackle on Maynard to earn his goal was textbook perfection. Jack Viney is A-Grade.

Ahh, but you must remember, the Collingwood football club is a flotilla of luxury yachts sailing upon a vast sea of filth. The people in the yachts try to pretend their boat isn't covered in it, but we all know it, we all see it. That's the contrast with the Demon's, though - we include all the increments of society but even our derros have taste.

Odd little quirk - against Collingwood on monday Fritsch did not leave the ground - 100% game time. First time he has ever done that, with the usual figure being somewhere in the mid-80 range. Suspicion - we've been working on his tank, and noticeably using him more up the ground (17 inside-50s in the previous 4 weeks, which is easily double his usual) but the purpose of that is that also he can be pulled back closer to goal and play maximum game time there when it suits the tactical needs. The theory grows that the Demons are calmly using the whole season to sharpen their axe.