Little Goffy

Welcome to Demonland. Your first post is a huge winner. Absolutely true statement and backed up with the details. Before this post made me stop and think, I would've said "yep, really happy that Jetta is having a better season and I'd reckon if he keeps going like this he'll cling onto a spot in the 22". Now I'm thinking Neville Jetta's improvement is a real part of why we are so much more competitive now, and he should be ranked alongside Pederson and Dunn when talking about most improved players.

Demons win! AFL in crisis! And that would be fine with me.

Over a bomberblitz, even when they try to be dignified, they find way to be snarky and smug. "Good luck to the dees, took every chance, and got everything. Can't wait for the day they fold though." I know some rea.lly lovely, honestly passionate bomber supporters. It's true! But any bomber fan who isn't feeling a little conflicted about their club at the moment has some personal issues of their own to deal with. Some of the bombers I've talked to, it feels like they wish they could move all their players to another club - loyalty is very specific to the players. And they wont have missed that their best two today were either not at the club or not involved in the program.

It's a fascinating quirk of history, just how many significant events have occured around Melbourne-Essendon games, or how many of those game shave themselves been significant. Grand final 2000. 2004 Elimination Final decided by a goal (Lloyd you dirty diving cheat!) The moving first game of 2005, commemorating Troy Broadbridge. The 2005 'must win' round 22 game, down to the wire and decided by Robbo, part of his extraordinary season. Neale Daniher's final game (what a game that was!) in 2007. Disaster 148 point loss that derailed 2013 in just round 2. And now this. Any other recent ones to note? Oh, and of course, if my memory serves me correctly it is 4-1 in premierships.

I can't believe how much time I've spent trawling through this thread, following the links, listening to a lot of people make quite passionate but calmly presented opinions. Some people have gone to a lot of trouble to clarify a story that has been massively obfuscated by 'certain involved parties'. Thank you to them. So, I just want to summarise what I understand of all these different comments and stories and paper-trails. The Club; - It is alleged that the Essendon Football Club operated a major program of injections of banned performance-enhancing substances. - Most members of the chain of responsibility, from the senior coach to the club doctor, were substantially aware of the nature of this program. - There were varying degrees of hesitation and anxiety expressed by some of these officials, but no decisive rejection of the program by any person. The Players; - The players may or may not have known the particular nature of the substances. - The code is explicit that players are considered responsible and culpable for any banned substances which they use or which are 'used on them'. - It seems apparent that players did not personally verify the appropriateness of their supplement/drug program. - However, imperfect and changing information on the WADA/ASADA websites, imperfect and possibly wilfully incomplete information provided to players by those administering the program, and the apparent assent of the club doctor, may reduce the reasonable culpability of the players. - The standard, indeed mandatory, penalty for players is a 2 year suspension from competition. However, this may be reduced to 1 year if reduced culpability is shown. Some further reduction may be applied for 'cooperating' with relevant authorities. The Fans; - Essendon supporters would appear in general to have gone for the 'full buy-in' option, believing in the innocence of their players in particular, as well as in the innocence of deeply loved coaches and club champions. - In the event of the formal revelation of unambiguous proof of guilt... they will experience genuine psychological trauma related to massive cognitive dissonance. Those who remain with the club will be split between revolutionaries and reactionaries, and they will not have a good time. What's the situation for us? - If numerous Essendon players are suspended, they will be unable to function as a football team unless they engage in extensive trading to spread the 'damage' to other lists. - Melbourne should take any chance to grab, say, Hibberd and Heppell for cheap; it's definitely worth waiting out the one-season missed for these valuable young players. - David Zaharakis, who is officially noted as NOT being subject to any form of infringement notice, is a pivot. We should be offering him every dollar we can get because he will come with 30,000 disillusioned (i.e. care more about integrity than Essendon) former bomber fans. The nice bomber fans. Plus he's a handy player. I've got no qualms about circling like sharks around the Bombers. Frankly, the only way they can have their honour restored from here is by being ripped apart and put back together slowly.

Going so well until that slipped in. In fact, I agree with everything else you've said. But that little lurking racism makes it all turn to cr4p. Yes, it is racist to say that people of a certain background are less likely to be dedicated and professional. Well duh. Yep.

Dung beetles are a massively underrated contributor to Australian life. It's not a coincidence that Australia's cafe and outdoor eating culture massively took off within a few years of the dung beetle being (very carefully, as part of a CSIRO program) introduced to Australia to manage the disasterous livestock dung problem that was drastically reducing viable land for grazing, and quite literally causing a plague of blowflies. Dung beetles collect and bury livestock dung (for later use) faster than the egg-laying and larval stages of the blowfly, cutting out the life-cycle and drastically reducing numbers. Next time you have a meal or coffee outdoors and are bothered by a fly, remember that before the dung beetle introduction program there would have been five to ten times as many hanging around. Then raise a toast to the dung beetle, and the biological sciences team at CSIRO who combed the world and conducted years of study to identify a specific beetle that would not cause ecological side-effects. - - - - - Anyway, as for Wilson, I agree with the common perception that she overdoes the ethically questionable blending of a few facts with extensive opinion and hyperbole. Like most of us, I was seriously sh1tty about her tone and the relentless, unconstructive campaign she wages against the MFC administration for years. While I still think she could have been a lot more constructive and informative, I do wonder how many of us would have stayed disciplined if we'd been privy to the same lines of information she had. It certainly turned out that the egg was well rotten under the shell. That said, the tanking hunt was totally out of line given that she completely ignored even the simultaneous tanking of other clubs, and the decade of accepted and persistent tanking that was the context.

Relax, his problem in this case isn;t with MFC, it is with Roos personally. Roos dared to criticise the umpiring/officialdom. Barrett has a long record of delivering wet-lettuce counterpunches on behalf of the hand that feeds him. It is plainly a personal attack, the final comment does sum it all up "The gun for hire can't lose from here", declaring not only that Roos is a mercenary but that he is also being given undue high status. Such a beta-male stereotype.

Tragically, we are missing what Blease, Gysberts, Tapscott and Strauss were intended to be. Caps lock time - THIS IS NOT TO START A 'DRAFT FAILURE' RANT I'm just saying that these are the elements we are missing and it is an interesting pattern that, for all the chaos and change of the last few years, these core gaps remain. Zippy attacking runner and hunter. Creative midfielder with poise. Booming, line-breaking kick. Precise half-back kicking with vision. Thankfully we have a few kids coming through that look like they might be able to deliver some of what we need. But there's still a deficiency there, even if the likes of JKH, Tyson and Salem mature well. Another way I've looked at it; if Essendon's players were to be granted a 'general release' from their contracts due to being used for off-the-books medical experiments, I'd want Melbourne to be circling like sharks around Heppell and Zaharakis. Also, especially for the rebounding, Fletcher. It'd be great if he could play the second half of his career with us.

For as long as the hard-core defense and retaining possession approach was working and keeping us within striking distance, there was a tense satisfaction that we were in it and not being blown away. But the tragic reality is, if you don't have the kind of 'weapons' that can cut through the messy masses that form in front of your 'control' zone, you just can't get any scoring done of your own. We could use someone like Goodes. Or some decisive sweeping counter-attackers like Kennealy or McVeigh. Or a Hall/O'Loughlin double act up forward. Evidently.

Oddly enough, this fragment of the song is probably the only part with historical substance. The legend is that after grabbing a rare win down in Geelong 'back in the day', the player's bus back to Melbourne was in a bit of a jolly capering mood, which culminated in a spontaneous roaring version of auld lang syne. As ye do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Lang_Syne Throw in the message of remembering history, times and friends past, it's quite suitable. A touch anachronistic, but that's exactly what makes it part of the club. For a laugh, I wonder if anyone can work some magic to make it about premiership cups, not cups of kindness. Come to think of it, the song (aung lang syne) could be used as part of a campaign to reach out to the many older supporters who have lost 'contact' since the glory days.

Yes, exactly like it did for North Melbourne through the 90s... Or Brisbane, Sydney, Port Adelaide and St Kilda in the 2000s. I'm annoyed by this simplistic chest-puffing almost as much as I am annoyed by the corporate 'we'll be famous and rich if every would just pay attention and give us money' talk. I want to hear a strategy, a real strategy for; - building the relationships between fans, players, and sponsors, - recognising the hard core of committed supporters and creating a positive cycle of respect and commitment - improving the quality, targeting and availability of merchandise, club-related services and events. Including getting out of that ****-awful basement hole we current have our shop in - developing an active and engaging kids/families program - a clear business model for sustaining and growing Melbourne's leading edge as far as engaging with women football players and supporters. - a similar plan for making the Demons the 'fall into' choice for the large migrant populations arriving in Melbourne every year (whether from overseas or NSW) - in the interests of affirming our status as the 'Melbourne' Club, relationship-building with other 'Melbourne institutions' from the Exhibition Centre, NGV, Zoo, Comedy festival, and good coffee. - and finally, developing an meaningful set of packages and offers for tourists to take up, which can be accessed through normal tourism processes. For all that to happen, all we need is a competent and competitive team on the field. Don't need them smashing everything. Just not being 'hang heads in dreary embarrassment' standard.

Nothing in it that we haven't heard at least as far back as 2008. Although back then we were going to be Man U, not the Yankees.

Well, I did some digging for Emma Quayle's rankings. Found a link to 2010 right here on Demonland, http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/23650-emma-quayles-top-25/ http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-golden-boys-20101113-17s03.html Was keen on Darling for the Demons, in the discussion. :/ Not quite in the scope, but I found 2012 as well. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-pick-of-the-crop-20121117-29jct.html Love her description of Viney, and I'm sure plenty will shed a tear over her perfect assessment of Wines. Hard to find any others. The Age has archived the articles and the only other breadcrumbs are from places like bigfooty and talkingcarlton, and I just won't take that hit for the team! Edit - found a link to 2009, again on Demonland, but the link is dead. However 'Demonland' the poster very sensibly added the list a few posts down the thread. http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/18343-emmas-top-25/ One thing it really highlights is what a cr4p draft 2009 was!

Pick 2 for Rockliff and spare change would have been an effective bit of recruiting. Pick 2 for Tyson and Salem may prove to be one of the great modern-era trades for us, and GWS won't be crying about getting Kelly either. Meanwhile, Rockliff might be available this year. If he is disgruntled by the end of the year, well, we have the salary cap room, that's for sure.

Boy oh boy wowee. This is the 'not sexist' guy, apparently. The champion of respect. "Women behave in the following way and it shows how they don't know what they are doing" It's nice when the prejudiced dummies provide the plain, unambiguous evidence that it is ok to write off their opinions.

Another one of these whiteys off the rails. I tells ya, they just aren't worth the risk to recruit.

Ah, the AFL still not quite getting it. The gap in football department resources between a top-financed club and a poorer club is as much as $100,000 per year, per player. That gap will have to be compensated for by the poorer clubs by paying 'overs' to retain or recruit players, especially through free agency. Twiddling the cap is hosing the fire 'slightly less inadequately'. Eventually the house still burns down. And to abuse the metaphor a little further - Free Agency has installed highly flammable insulation. I don't even want to imagine what it will look like if they scrap FA compensation.

What do we do with Grimes? Hmm... Whatever we did to Pederson, I say.

That's not actually an answer. To anything. Does have a vague resemblance to barking louder when cornered.

As a side note, the colours of Clermont-Foot, the French football team which last month appointed a female senior coach, are Red & Blue.

This "It's not me, it's the players" is an interesting variation on the "It's not me, it's the bible" and "It's not me, it's the shareholders" and "It's not me, it's the hedge funds system" diversion of responsibility. Forms the traditional triumvirate with "Some of my best friends are..." and "I'm not ----ist but...". Anyway, the point is, Jazza, if you have some kind of a problem with women in positions of authority, just say so. None of this gutless slandering of the players by painting them with your opinions.

What the? Are you drunk already? I wonder if there's anyone you owe money to about a female prime minister? Can I just clarify what you're saying. "Peta Searle is great but it doesn't matter because she's a woman" "It's not me that says that, it is [insert 'silent majority myth equivalent' here], so you can't say I'm sexist, even though actually it is just me saying it" Ah yes, anybody saying anything good about a woman is just doing it for political correctness.

A lifetime is a long time. For example, it was only a lifetime ago that 'Dinky Di Aussie' women wouldn't have gotten in a swimming pool with men either, if they wished to remain respectable. Though how the gender anxieties of a minority of recent migrants from socially 'backwards' countries is relevant, I'll never know. But I guess the issue is settled. Jazza, as spokesperson for AFL players past, present and future, has declared that 1000 young people in 2040 will STILL be hung up about ovaries, or something. I don't know.

Hey Jazza, something I just want to clear up. maybe you can help me. I heard a rumour that sometime recently the top levels of Australian football became a professional environment, focused on performance, results, and competence. According to the same rumour, that professionalism has even seeped down into the second-tier competitions, even ones not directly affiliated with the AFL itself. Something something Port Melbourne something pull your finger out something idiot. See also Western Bulldogs. Some guy named Brendan. Peta Searle is an experienced, highly respected and successful coach who has managed to overcome the idiot prejudices of the boozy boof-heads Jazza celebrates (at the lowest levels of the game, it is worth noting), demand their respect and effectively driving their development. To describe her appointment as window dressing and 'advertising mush' is just idiotic and yes, pretty obviously sexist.