praha

You mean like Mitch Clark and Chris Dawes? You know, I don't think Neeld was a good coach, I just pointed out that what he was trying to do was not all that different to what Roos is trying to do, and that any progress we've up to this point is merely normalisation, not necessarily "improvement": with the list we've got, we'd probably be in the same situation irrespective of who is coaching us. That's not to say our curve of improvement from here out won't be better under Roos.

Georgiou was a filler. Who else are you going to get with a can of drink and a pack of ciggies as pay? Anyway, Roos and Neeld aren't all that dissimilar. Similar vision, similar intend to gut and change the team, similar defensive mindset, similar standards of accountability for the playing group. Roos just has the resume. I doubt that had Neeld remained as coach up until now we'd be any worse than where we sit. Dare I say that the stability might have seen us actually rise above where we are now.

Jones isn't a "really good" kick. He has a penetrating kick but he's no better than half the side when he comes to direct passing. If he's a "really good kick" then so was Moloney. I'd replace him with Salem if you needed to pick top 3.

How sad that he plays his 200th game at a stadium he's never won at.

True. Bail was actually a key part in all 4 of our wins last year especially against Adelaide. Hasn't had a great year but I'm thankful for his service. I'm far more critical of the boys club you mentioned.

Harmes provides a bit of spark and even though he sprays it at least his confidence doesn't wane throughout a match like Toumpas' does. Toumpas has needed extended VFL time to mature as a football. He has seriously looked like a 12-year-old playing a man's game at times. If Brayshaw and Harmes are going out, presumedly with H as well, then you'd expect Tyson, JKH and Fitzpatrick to come in. No point bringing Jamar in now.

Three records up to be toppled this weekend: Beat Fremantle - Last win: Round 13, 2011 (6-game losing streak) Beat a Ross Lyon-coached team - Last win: Never (12-game losing streak) Win in Perth - Last win: Round 1, 2004 (12-game losing streak) He has been in the league for nine seasons and has never lost a game to Melbourne. So yes. We need to beat a Ross Lyon-coached team, because, evidently, Lyon-coached teams tend to be the hardest to beat.

If we beat Freo I will... ...be actually the most shocked I have ever been. No player on our list who has only ever played for Melbourne has *ever* won in Perth. Can you believe that? That means that of our entire list, only H, Vince and Cross (maybe Pederson?) have won there.

We don't really...

He's simply making an observation. He is not saying the fans are not within their right to drive to a game thinking the team will lose. He's saying the small group of players need to man the [censored] up and not worry about it. "That's just something the players have to get over". You're trying to look for something that just isn't there. 1. He wasn't blaming us directly in any way. 2. It wasn't having "a go" at us. The club merely pointed to the negativity coming from the fanbase, which exists. No one at the club has said it isn't justified. There has been a correlation made between the negativity and how a certain group within the playing group performs, but Roos said the players "need to get over it". He didn't say fans need to stop being negative.

At our absolute best, they're still a 4-5 goal better side. At our worst...dear me..

The thing is that lowering your expectations give you a greater field of error. Schwab and co. went around promising that we'd be the next best thing. We all followed mindlessly while the club got rid of its best leaders from arguably the club's best period since the '60s (Daniher years). When it all came crumbling down, that exodus was the core piece of what led to such a colossal failure. Ultimately, fans had been let down because such erratic changes had led to such erratic failure. Roos and Jackson and co. tell us to keep our expectations in check. Neeld did the same thing. I don't think it's a conscious direction as a way to avoid mistakes of past years. I think they're just looking at what happened then and are saying what they say -- like winning 7 games as a pass -- as a means to keep expectations in check, because you don't know what can happen. There's nothing wrong with having a minimum KPI with the expectation of using it as a means to grow and build off of it. Saying that finals was a KPI would have been unrealistic and ultimately false advertising. Schwab and co damaged our business relations by promising a golden era, and we had sponsors throwing money at us based on hope and nothing else. We need a tangible product and still don't have it but at least we can go to sponsors and say, "Look, this is where we're at, we're not sugar coating it, but we're setting long-term goals as means to build upon". Gardner is a hack. Somehow he couldn't even get a consistently finals-bound club over a 10-year period to build a fanbase and a war chest of funds. When he left we were massively in debt with zero prospects, no money, and no members. Jackson has done more with the club being an absolute basket case than what Gardner did with the club looking like a legitimate flag threat.

Selective counting is the sign of desperation.

They've actually made a film about Melbourne supporters.

I don't think Roos is playing the fans, or blaming anyone. I think he's just making an observation that is very obvious and, unfortunately, very true. I have said multiple times on here that there is a stigma attached to playing for Melbourne. When you're growing up, and out in public, hearing people talk, neutral fans know Melbourne is bad. That sort of narrative is interchangeable with Melbourne fans because Melbourne fans are equally as negative about the club. I don't think he is blaming fans any more than he's blaming the players. It must truly be tough playing for the Demons, knowing so few people respect you. This creates distance, individualism, as a means of trying to show the world that, "Okay, so at least I'm okay." This is why I'm critical of Nathan Jones: I don't think he's particularly inspiring, and I think he goes through the motions to stand out amongst the crap. That doesn't make him a good leader. It makes him a "loser" in the true sense of the word, not someone that is particularly driven to win. He just does what *he* can do. Make a good leader, that does not. The scary thing is I see this weep through our younger players already. Brayshaw, Viney, Watts, VB, Hogan. They go through periods of ineptness and "ME ME ME" as a means to look decent in a bad loss. Roos has mentioned this after loses where the players play a game as individuals, not as a team. This all correlates into what he's saying. And I have said it once and I'll say it again: until older players from the Bailey and Daniher years are gone, that veil among the playing group will remain. A new generation now needs to set the tone, not "leaders" who were part and parcel of the club's worst ever years. It's astonishing how some can't see the correlation between how bad we play, and how bad the likes of Dunn, Watts, Jones, Garland, Grimes can be.

"We didn't see it coming."

It's a double edged sword: if he says the club is negative, he turns his staff on him, sponsors away, etc etc. If he says the fans are negative...well, none of us are going to stop going to the football, are we? There IS a veil of negativity from fans. Case in point: myself and Demonland. Let's not pretend like we're a beacon and hope. And I never saw him say we're not justified in being negative.

Carlton landed Judd despite winning the spoon and finishing last 3 times over the past 5 seasons. If the price and conditions are right, you can land anybody.

You'd think Viney would be ahead of Brayshaw. Knowing our luck, Brayshaw will turn into Brock McLean.

All players part of the club on 186 with the exception of McDonald should be moved on.

You don't need to apply pressure to Melbourne. Melbourne applies pressure to itself. There could seriously be less than 10,000 people at this game. Great fixturing by the league to have Melbourne vs GWS, two sides certain to miss the finals at the start of the year, playing at Etihad late on a Sunday in the final round of the year.

Oh dear, that's going to be a lot of players. I'm skeptical of revolutionary change because it generates instability. It's too erratic. Jamar M Jones Terlich Grimes Riley Garland Howe Dunn Bail They will either be at another AFL club or in the VFL or amateur leagues. If you chop them you need to bring in depth and role models. Problem is that the gap was too big and, really, this off-season will be part 2 of the rebuild. Fmd.

Fremantle could field a week's worth of Ross Lyon's turds and we'd still lose.

The on-field season has been a failure. 8 wins was a pass and of course we can still make it but won't. If you consider the off-season as past of the broader 2015 season, then our drafting and signings have been good. H has been a disappointment but apart from that, Brayshaw, VB, ANB, Stretch, Garlett have all been good, although as with the rest of the team the second half has been poor for those players. Performance: F Drafting: B+ Free agents and trades: C+ Overall: D+

Better than what they are? The issue is most definitely that they think they're worse than what they are. Not better.