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Thanks to Robbo for the service and highlights over his career at MFC. All the best for the future and if he does go into the media I am pretty sure he will stay the same Robbo instead of conforming to the bs that goes on.

Collingwood are mega-fresh, which will be an important factor in the finals. Saints and Cats are better teams IMO but play a harder brand of footy (not loose man all the time) and have had a few injuries of late. Touch and go for mine.

No from me. He has been a part of the club for so long and given us ups and downs but we have to move on I think. Player experience is really only an asset if it rubs off on younger players in a positive (almost mentor) way and I don't think Robbo has that trait unfortunately. He has kicked some goals this year and he does take a decent defender but we will always have our hands tied if we put our priorities on damage minimalisation rather than throwing ourselves in the deep end and developing our list. Bailey knows this and has been doing this, I don't see why he will change his tune with respect to Robbo. The one thing Robbo has traditionally had more so than the other forwards is charisma up forward and he does take the focus away a little bit from the others (Watts) which could aleviate some pressure on their shoulders but again I don't think that holds too much water. It will come down IMO to whether DB thinks Robbo can directly aid or hinder his cause and I'd be surprised to see him kept on. If we did hold on to him and used him sparingly it wouldn't be the end of the world though which is another thing to consider. It would be contradictory but it wouldn't be disastrous.

Any fellow ManU fans out there with worries about Owen? How he didn't go for a sidestep around the goalie in his last attack was beyond me. He's lost a yard which is expected and the club has been a bit prudent with the wallet but still expected better instinct there in an experienced player. Makes me ill just thinking it but I reckon Chelsea will be the team to beat this season for the LC.

I think it is fair to say that if we win a flag we will still be celebrating it well into the next couple of years to even know what is happenign on the field. By the time I'm sober again the team will already be on the rebound going for a second.

From the first moment I watched him play at senior level he just looked lost, slow and completely out of it. He has tried to improve I guess and tackling has definitely been one area but even that seems to be more reactive play than attacking play. He just isn't geared for AFL IMO and when he misses goals from 10 meters out on a decent angle then that just rubs salt into the wound.

McKinley doesn't really appeal to me tbh and I don't think he is in the mould of forward we need to support Watts. Seaby is Seaby I suppose, someone will probably pick him up cheap but again I don't think we critically need him compared to what we have - unless PJ is in the firing line and the club doesn't have enough confidence in either Meesen or Spencer. Reilly would be a great pick up IMO but I don't even want to think about what it would cost draft pick wise. I am assuming he is contracted here or is that not the case?

All the best to all three of these guys who wore the red and blue guensey with pride and exhibited their loyalty and passion for the team in their own unique ways. Time stands still for no man and as a club we have to keep instilling the list with youth. The mere fact that some people are suggesting that Wheatley can play on for another couple of years shows that we have advanced to a new level at the club. Irrespective of what we think Wheatley can contribute, some times you have to cut short careers in the interest of the greater good and as hard as it may seem this is the trait of a club in good stead. Personally I think the timing is right for all three to retire and thank them for their service. If Robbo wants to play on at another club then good luck to him, it is his choice if he wants to keep enjoying footy or be a 1 club player.

Centrebet have Freo at $1.71 to win, I'd say that is probably around the mark.

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Indeed, we could use one of those up forward. It would be great to get a dedicated forward with a great kick, not one of these kids who plays back but can go up forward but isn't the complete forward package - versatility is good but we want potency. Carlisle looks like he has played all over a bit, is he still pretty skinny? He seems to have the height. Thanks for that.

Out of those guys is there a clear stand out and who would likely be available at pick 18 do you think? My heart is hooked on the benefits of getting Butcher along side Watts with Jurrah as the xfactor. However my head is starting to accept that Trengove is probably best available and given where we (MFC) are we shouldn't argue. The one thing that is imperetive though IMO is that we get a good tall (not an absolute champion but someone competent) to share the load with Watts and be a dangerous alternative target who will take a quality defender. Surely pick 18 can grasp us someone half decent - please put who you think is the best likely option forward with pick 18 so I can ponder (it doesn't matter if it is a ranga).

Interesting, how much weight do you give to this whisper? I must say that one of my few reservations in our current setup has been Mahoney. Despite our poor year I expected to see a little more structure and effectiveness up forward than what we did. Barker could well be a good get, he played a more traditional forward type role but then this whisper could be groundless. Another thing to keep tabs on I suppose as pre-season approaches.

Hannibal is right about Matthews, great skills and movement. But anyway back OT I won't comment on the merits of Lyon as a senior coach one day but I must be honest, I'll be pensive throughout his development. Stability will be a very important thing for us at MFC going forward and the last thing we need is a current coach looking over his shoulder for whatever reasons, now or later. Lyon as an assistant coach to DB wouldn't work IMO and for DB to implement the best possible foundation surely he needs long term assurance. I don't have any real reservations against Lyon (depending on what his asperations are) but things may get tricky in the next few years.

193cm seems to be the most up to date number I can find. That's roughly 3cm shorter than Watts. Here's a profile. I didn't realise he went to Rostrevor college, same College as Ben Hart, Luke Darcy and yours truely. - Although I was a 3rd 18 hack lol.

Are we likely to see McKenzie get another senior game this year?

I was slightly tongue in cheek there but you are right none the less.

Yes, much happyness eminates from this I must admit. TBH I'm not holding my breath with the PSD, teams will do almost anything I reckon to get something for their players these days. We'll have 1st pick and I know many players could be let go but I wouldn't factor it into what quality kids we will go for in the ND. I reckon Pick 18 is the key to a lot of this and will turn a good draft into a killer draft for us - good luck to the staff who have to nut all of this out though.

At this early stage I am undecided. I see equal merit in either another good mid in Trengove or a great KPP in Butcher. It will come down to the club's evaluation of what/who we can get with pick 18 also I should think. State of origin is not considered such a big factor these days or so it seems but if it came down to being a 50/50 then I would opt for the local. With regards to Butcher, I don't think we should consider Jurrah a factor, he's been fantastic but I think we should still treat him as an xfactor player for the time being. Another tallented tall pillar is always handy. Imagine having twin towers and then Jurrah on top - you need depth up forward just like anywhere else. As far as Trengove goes, I beleive he is around the 190 cm height which could make him a great marking and running target in the corridore. Tough choices ahead... As completely stupid as this sounds, the biggest factor to not picking someone like Butcher is that he could slide to another Vic club like the Tigers who would rightly think all of their Christmasses had come at once. If Richmond got Butcher it would sicken me lol. On the other hand a mid like Trengove may go earlier if we didn't pick him. Worrying about other teams is hardly a criterea for chosing draft picks but jeez it would [censored] me if Richmond cashed in on Butcher.

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Whilst some people may not be too impressed with another spoon don't underestimate the benefit of being at the start of every round in the draft as a result. We picked off a few players last year (Bennell/Jetta) because we were 1 spot in front of WCE who were after them both. The fact that we have (not just 1,2) but 18, 34 etc will be damn important. We could still get a decent player at 18.

That's the way I treated your post. Just the concept of trading a player and pick for a better pick. The actual examples you gave would never happen so I didn't think you were too serious about them.

Absolutely, good call - I was a bit 1 dimensional with my post but if no such trade could go through then it would come back to making a simpler decision whether to trade 1 for 1 or delist.

I don't think I like that or any lotto system but I agree that a PP prior to the first round has to go. A 2nd round PP shouldn't be much of a problem but it is more susceptible to weak drafts so in the end it may not do it's job apart from being a trade option. As far as the general draft order goes it should stay as it is, at the end of the day we have to have an order of some kind. I like the idea of Staggered Prizemoney suggested by HT or at least some other kind of incentive to aim for the best possible ladder position.

Thanks for the inside perspective there Do26. I donated on the DD site the other night but might just have to do it again after that read. To be debt free could change the whole psyche of the club. We are being very positive and moving forward but there couldn't be any better signal of progress than getting the debt monkey off our back - although a flag would (will) be good too.