Dappa Dan

Fair enough. I think you're all wrong.... Ok, maybe PRESUMING we would be in the bottom 4 for the next 2 years is a big stretch. Fair enough. We may even make the finals next year, as we will most likely see no retirements of any major consequence at the end of this year. My point is, and if you look at it with fair judgement, we have a NUMBER of players doing A LOT, who will either diminish or retire over the next 3 years... and it just so happens that the positions they fill will probably not be able to be replaced in the trade period. Look, with no Neitz, an ageing Robbo who relies on his explosiveness, JMac who CONTINUES to be under-rated, Jeff White (no backups in sight), that's 2 tall forwards and a ruckman (to go with the 2 backups you would OBVIOUSLY need).... That's 5 quality talls we have to recruit, train, mature, play 50 games and THEN hope they can get us to a flag chance before the next slew of players who are now 26-28 get old (Bruce, Trav, Green, Whelan). That's going to be almost impossible. I grant we could pick up a good ruckman with our first pick this year, maybe... there's one who'll need a few years. Juice is a FREAK of a talent, but he's YEARS off meaning as much to the side in terms of structure as Neitz. Dunn has not completely convinced me, Bate is good, but will play a variety of roles, PJ is stopgap material.... It all makes me very nervous... and just because we draft talls HEAVILY in the next few years doesn't mean they'll work out! I liked our list for this year and next, and hey, I still kind of do. I worry that Neitz and JMac may not be able to cover the ground they'll need to next year, and Jeff and his mates would be hard pressed to beat HALF of the AFL's ruck combinations. It's not ideal, but we can be effective, and possibly make top four ASSUMING we get a good coach and he doesn't do a complete clean out... fair enough.... But if not next year, we are going to have a gun midfield (Brock, Bate, Bartram, Petterd, Bell maybe, Sylvia, Green, Bruce, Trav, Davey), and an up and coming defence (Frawley, Rivers, Carroll + whoever we want to draft that's huge) and a VERY shaky forward line... That doesn't spell premiership success to me. There are the two major reasons I feel we will struggle. - We have a black-hole in our drafting history around 2000-02. Those years after Green, Bruce and Whelan came to the fore. When the clubs who recruited well in these years find those players reaching the all important 25-30 age bracket, we'll be found wanting. Or at least we'll be compensating hoping our younger players will play above their weight division, and our older guys will stay fresh... - Hawthorn did it right. They went NUTS recruiting talls all at once. Many don't rate Roughie, and I'm certainly sceptical, but he, Franklin, Boyle, and a handful of other interesting players like Croad and Dawson, have taken their customary 3 years to fill out as all talls do, and all at once they'll start improving dramatically. They'll give, from NOW, 10 YEARS of good service, playing well into their 30s as tall players seem to be able to do. During this time they have some ripper young midfield leaders in Hodge, Lewis and co.... And they can recruit MORE young midfielders who can potentially make their mark on the comp MUCH earlier. Earlier than the talls anyway. In short, we have recruited a good midfield that I'm happy with, we've put together a potentially powerful defence peacemeal, and we are NOWHERE NEAR putting together a ruck division, or 2 absolute certain star power forwards. Of the current bunch juice shows potential only, and Bate is too good at too many jobs. Your points regarding our young improvers are well made, I just don't think there's enough of them. We've got rippers who could fill maybe 14 positions in the side and you'd completely trust them... but there's ALWAYS going to be holes... we're the victim of our own success, getting lower draft picks for a sustained period. Mark my words, we are due to start the premiership clock again soon, and if we get a new coach, then you can bet it will happen then... and you can bet we'll have no REAL success to speak of for a NUMBER of years...

So.... At the end of the year before last we all thought we were on a good wicket, then we had last year where it was revealed we had problems, but had a good list, with a fair amount of healthy development in it. I was relatively pleased with the direction of the club, but I have always been fearful for what might eventuate when we have our obligatory "down" period. Alright, so the fall we had to have came a season or two before it was scheduled to come... What I would like to hear is peoples' thoughts on the following... My great fear is that MFC is not financially strong enough, and doesn't have the wherewithal to fight off a negatively balanced merger, or even a move interstate. If this is true, over the next few years we may find a new coach, a bit of rebuilding, and you'd think at least 2 more seasons on top of this one where we'll be bottom 4, before we start winning games and winning back fans. The depression has hit, can MFC survive the swings? Discuss....

Yep. As Jaded said, after the West Coast game his facial expression was as dire as I've seen it, and that's including when he had it caved in. It takes a bit of guts for a mature leader at the club to come out and say that the leaders weren't putting in. To be honest, I think this is one of the rare times where a player's reason for failed performances is given and I wholeheartedly agree with it... We can umm and aah about the coach, injuries, supporters, draw etc etc... the one TRULY unacceptable thing so far this season is how the leaders who have been out there have done anything BUT lead. Brock comes in and leads from the front, and the contrast is startling, and more than a little worrying. Good on Jeff for saying that, but obviously I'm not gonna pat him on the back TOO much.

Nice, condemned... I appreciate that, and Tim's comments... The only thing? I'm not a supporter of his. I reckon he shoots his mouth off about topics sometimes and gets it horribly wrong... It's like Walls saying you'll be a good player... The kiss of death. Still. I appreciate the comments.

What a twit... You get a hard, tall backman who moves and thinks as fast as a midfielder and he gets slammed for having a quiet debut coming off a multiple-week injury... Jeez some footy fans are dumb. He didn't star, that's true... but he's got all the elements... I'm nervous about how LONG it takes him to put boot to ball, I feel he may get caught, but other than that there's NOTHING wrong with how he plays the game... Has 360 degree vision, a good football brain, his mistakes were the kind that could be ironed out in 10 games or even less... Frawley will be a good player...

Get used to it.

So who are the ins? CJ?

Yeah. And as we keep saying there could be any number of other reasons why he's been kept back. You can't just select players PURELY based on form. There's a lot that goes into it... That said, what annoys me is that Rewoldt looks a likely type and has been playing at an AFL club for less than a year. Newton has been around WAY longer... Read into that what you will...

Welcome, and congrats for plucking up the courage to debate with us neanderthals... On your post, it seems that the only variable that could cause Juice to NOT be selected is his mind. We've eliminated form, talent, hardness, suitability for a role (was just about our only reserve KP forward there for a few weeks), hard work, injury and fitness as possible problem areas. He seems to have checked every box and then some. But he's paying a terrible price for being a bit of a moody kid isn't he? Look, we could never know what's ACTUALLY going on in his head really. For all we know, it's all just ND and the FDs opinion, or on the other end of the scale it could be Juice's unwillingness to follow instruction. For my part I reckon this one's a bit iffy. There's nothing physically wrong with him in a maturity sense. He's bigger than he looks. Sort of a Norm Smith type... skinny but MUCH more effective that many of the beefcakes, and just as heavy in terms of kgs. And if his mental state were an issue, surely holding him back is JUST as problematic. In the media ND and others are not even MENTIONING him in dispatches, and week by week it's getting harder to drown out the still growing posse of fans he's accumulating. If Juice feels he's not getting enough games, there is a real danger he could jump ship. No, EVERY debut i a roll of the dice... I just can't see him being any more ready in 12 weeks, or even 12 months from now. Most of all, his form WARRANTS a call-up. One other possibility was raised by Rogue, or Whispering Jack, or nasher... They could be waiting until they can count on the opposition's 2 best defenders to go to OTHER players. For example... you wouldn't want Juice's first game to be against Mal Michael or Dustin Fletcher... So we wait until Robbo and Neita, easily our best and most respected forwards, to return TOGETHER, THEN we play him... I'm not so sure about this being the case, but it is a possibility.... I think Brad Miller plays a part here too. the FD and board probably would have noticed he was under the pump last year, and may have promised him a dozen or so rounds to get a head of steam up again, and do what he did in his first few years. They may be keeing their word with him, and thus denying Juice a go. All in all, the pros far outweigh the cons in this case... At least that's how I see it. As far as what you say TFC, his mental state is unlikely to be any stronger in a number of weeks time than it is now. Fev's a whingeing peanut, and he won a Coleman. MFC can handle an unpredictable, arrogant player... Hell, MFC NEEDS an unpredictable arrogant player.

DISGRACE!!!!! (He turned 20 a month ago) From what I remember at the end of last year, popular opinion was that they weren't terribly impressed with him, but recognised both his talent, and the fact he'd been injured, and it was ND who said "I'll give you one more year to show something." Up until the end of last year he hadn't even played regularly for the Sandy seniors. So right or wrong the demons supporters blazed away, and if Finks is right it seems the footy department made a good call... I reckon if we didn't have a hold of him, he'd get picked up by another club at year's end.

Yeah. Abuse them. They'll turn up in droves now. For my part I love the idea that a team of demons who've been there a while can feel more at home going to changerooms where they have their own lockers, and names printed on them... pre-match superstition and mental state counts for a lot I would imagine... But on the other hand, I'm not physically in the rooms. I'm also not a player or in admin. I'm willing to go with their judgement. maybe there were other smaller considerstions that just made the whole thing seem a bit pointless... ie. - Maybe there was a small price-tag that they felt could be spent elsewhere. And maybe the cleaning, refurbishing, decorating and general upkeep would have been their responsibility too. One less headache? - Maybe the plans for the rooms weren't all that impressive. They wouldn't want to turn up every week in rooms that weren't as good or as spacious as the oppositions'. - I would assume if they were going to put rooms in as an afterthought they wouldn't be as close as the normal ones. Having the team get ready miles from where the game is played cold have a negative effect.

I just realised as I read my copy... I've just had my first quote in Inside Footy.... On the Byron Pickett issue. Not my best work, but there it is for all to see... Quite a proud moment for me...

Well that is just plain NOT all due respect. If Bell was playing like this with Rivers in and fit, Carroll and Holland doing what they did last season, Whelan at his punishing best, you'd see a player more free to do as he pleases. If Whelan (circa 2006) was on his own in a predicament like Bell, he'd play just as badly, but wouldn't be crucified for it. Bell is doing it on his own at the moment, and succeeding. Consider the fact that without him, we may well have lost each game by MORE!!! And to prove the point, we haven't been beaten by over 12 goals all yeat when he's played well. He plays badly once, and we're done by 5 goals more than at any stage earlier... Obviously that has a lot to do with one C. Judd and his mates, but still... Absurd statement.... with all due respect That's true, but harsh. Not the Brown bit, he's been pretty bad. But wrecker? It's certainly true that he's having an AWFUL run at the moment. But I feel bad for the guy when he's given a serve by the fans. He's been such a good player, and has the brownie points put away. But yes, you are right on these first 8 rounds.

Really? That's great! I was under the impression he was only contracted until the end of THIS year.

Yeah, I'd say Trav was always in there as "star-possibility," but he has never played like one, and never will.

As said above, in the only game he played to it's completion before his injury he was in good nick in a side that was thrashed. He then kicked 1 goal in about 90 seconds the next week, and since he's come back he's had a battle with his knee, and has had his side smacked from pillar to post. But we forget how much better we look with him in the side. Against Port we looked completely different when he came back, and again the next week. I see your point, and yes he's having one of his worst years to date, but his '05 was pretty shonky too (was it '05 when Robbo won the goalkicking for MFC?). I just reckon he bring more to the side than goal-kicking. That's probably fair enough too. On a personal note, I reckon when the big man is gone, part of my heart that beats true for the red and blue will go with him, in much the same way it did when Schwarta retired. I want him to play this year and next, be given the chance to play well and retire with the dignity he so richly deserves. It's bad enough he hasn't won a flag...

Mate, I have NEVER had blinkers on for any player. The closest thing is probably Neita. What I say about belly on this site is clear, specific, and entirely grounded in the facts, and I'll go toe to toe with anyone in a debate about Belly, fully confident in backing myself because the facts are there for ALL to see. Now, if you look closely, you'll see I thought your post was probably about right. I didn't bring up any of your other points because I didn't see the need in repeating what you said. Seemed pretty stright to me. And yes, the defence deserves no break... on the whole. Our back six, though probably not quite the starting back 6 we would prefer (Frawley, Rivers, Holland maybe), are terrible at the moment. What I'm saying is that Bell is one of few players in the side that can hold his head high. Carroll had 10 marks, and a heap of the footy but was still smashed... what does that tell you? That despite getting his hands to it, there was simply too much footy, served too nicely over too long a period fo time for ANY defence to do anything about it. Belly may not have been at his best, but terrible? That's where I find fault. He only had a couple kicked on him. Fair enough though, I can see, with the obvious clangers he made how you'd think he had a bad one. But his year so far has been exemplary. Yet people STILL believe he's inconsistant and makes bad decisions. His decision making, particularly when under the pump, has been WELL above average so far this year. That's a fact. But people STILL base their opinions of him on his first dozen games. I've been trotting out the same facts again and again, that he's basically custom-built for the backline, and has a great kick to boot. And you say he's a long, long, long way off? I just can't understand that. And I don't think I would have brought this up if the rest of your post hadn't been so well considered and expressed. I can disregard nuff nuffs who are perennial Bell haters, but you seem to actually THINK... And that's what gets me. And who are the 2 you'd keep? I assume Bell isn't one of them, and that is just plain nuts. He's a kid, he's got ALL the weapons in his arsenal, and he's playing footy that's good enough to build upon. YES I like the kid, but I have as good reason to do that as I have for anyone. Give his decision making, and footy in general a go... and if I'm wrong, I'll buy you your drnks for the night at the next demonland function. But I'm confident you'll come round.

Neitz's form has been fine. He was marking strongly against the AA full back last weekend, and forwards are soft targets in thrashings. Anyone who is calling for Neitz to be dropped is: A) Blind. B) Naive. C) Being counter-productive. D) Probably an opposition supporter.

To be honest, we need to Draft/Trade 5 superstars in various positions within the next 2 years to be competitive. And to be honest, we don't have anything WORTH trading, that is of any value to another club, that we can spare. I think the best we can hope for is to make 1 clever trade this year or next, and draft like hell. In all honesty though, I think we're going to have to go without one or two important spots for a few years yet, namely ruckmen, and KP forwards...

Hmmm. harsh. Yeah. I don't think he's even CLOSE to 100% yet, in a number of ways. I texted a mate who just recently who, after a LONG time driving, refuelling, cleaning, polishing and insuring the Sylvia bandwagon, FINALLY threw his hands up in the air and said... "I'm sick of him." I was thrilled to text him with "Sylvia! The Kid has arrived!!!" I was, of course, being over-exhuberant just to highlight a silly point. But I'm feeling quietly confident with him. - He's still making mistakes and is probably only at 70% confidence. In fact, having never even come CLOSE to seeing what he really can do, for all I know he could be only running on 50% confidence. - He's keeping his head down and bum up in terms of attitude, when he scores he approaches team-mates to include them and bring them together, he doesn't over-do it. Seems to be a genuine team-man who appears to have his mind on the ball. On foxtel-active we saw the demons rooms after the match, where the players were looking ready to slit their wrists. Now I realise Col had played a good one, but he was up and about, approaching players and trying to keep their spirits up, even the older ones like Ward who were probably feeling like the end was just around the corner. It was the first time I've seen Col take a match day quite so seriously. - In terms of fitness, he's certainly not up to scratch in those terms, but is getting closer all the time. I was concerned because he went off and warmed the bench at about 3/4 time, and after the game had a BIIG ice-pack on his groin. If he can play like this under the duress he's under... Just imagine... As far as where he plays, he MUST be persevered with as a forward MOSTLY. The thing I like about him is that yes he can play the HF line, and yes he can play deep as a pocket or out of the square, and yes he can play sweeping down a wing or in the guts. But in the forward line he fits so many roles it's hard to count... And what I mean by that is that there are different "styles" of players in any given position who can make the position their own. For example a HFF like O'Keefe plays entirely differently from a HFF like Bate, or Pickett. A FP like O'Loughlin plays a completely different game than Robbo. Where Sylvia is exciting is that he can stand almost anywhere within 70 metres of goal and approach any situation in a number of ways. He can tackle like no-one else, can mark contested or otherwise, at the top of the fifty or on the boundary, he can attack a loose ball and you're always confident he'll at least come out with a fifty-fifty, can lead, and best of all these things can kick accurately from 60 time and time again... The only thing he can't be relied upon to do is be as physically punishing in the forward line as a Gorilla forward like Neitz. And the more we keep reading about where the game is going, the more it seems gorilla forwards are becoming as endangered as... well... Gorillas. We have always known we have a ripper here, and after all this talk of him being in such bad shape with OP that we weren't going to see him this year, I think I'm more excited about him now than I've EVER been. He's going to be playing personal best matches in the very near future, only to better himself weeks later, and it's about time. We may not have much to cheer about this year, but I'm looking forward to sitting back, relaxing and watching the Col show.

His best games from last year were probably the ones where he played that role. He's better running out of defence, or leading from a vacant forward-line.

Yep, great post, and as Jaded said, it has been raised before this problem of Daniher copying whoever won the flag the year before... Seems to me that's EXACTLY what you do if you are looking for genuine mediocrity... which is what we have been under ND. I raised this point during the pointy end of the pre-season, just before the NAB cup. Jones and Brock had trimmed down significantly, and I raised some concern, and was widely disagreed with. I claimed the key to both Brock and Jones's best footy was their hard bodies, their confidence when copping a hit, and most of all their willingness and ability to barge right on through tackles. To be honest, I think Jones was going in the right direction. He used to run himself into the ground, it taxed him and at the end of games it showed. But I do think he overdid it. The same with Brock. In what little I've seen of him this year, I was HUGLY concerned with what he showed. KD, you're absolutely right. Melbourne are to football what a Mack Truck is to F1 racing. We stand to improve ENORMOUSLY next season if they identify this problem and correct it. How good would it be if ND had a personality overhaul, Gardiner rehired him next season, and he redefined modern footy by bringing back the Essendon-style Biff? During their peak they were EASILY the most reported and suspended team in the league. They'd get pinged time and time again, but they got their money's worth. If Neale started to make his team MONSTER other sides by being the toughest, heaviest and hardest tackling, ALONG with being the best kicks (we have the cattle in that regard) we could take the competition on. But that won't happen.

I thought Ward was just going, but wasn't our worst. I'd drop him for the simple reason he can't be the future of the club. Simple as that. Also, I can see where you're coming from with Dunn. But surely we must persevere with him. He may not have owned a game yet, but he's certainly showing encouraging signs, and some impressive flashes. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Moving right along... Ferg, Miller, Brown and Ward SHOULD be dropped. But I've lost all confidence in anyone at MFC doing the right thing there. Robbo and Rivers if he's fit and montys to return. But from there I get confused... they're not a tall side the Roos, so what do we do? Put in a couple of talls to expose them? Or make sure our running defenders are bolstered? I'm of the opinion this is really one we can win, and if you CAN put Juice in, now is the time against a side that, while they're in good form, are NOT a great list and have one or two injury exposures. So, assuming McLean is fit I'd LOVE to see him in the side, but from what I hear he may need to play 2 out of 4 quarters, or maybe 3 before he can be relied upon for the full four. As good as he is, I don't think we can afford to carry him in that way. So have him run around at Sandy (if it's good enough for Robbo, it's good enough for Brock), and look on it as a positive step. Frawley could come in, as he's had his go at Sandy. While I'm sure he could use one more week, we DO need quality talls, even if they're a bit young. So for me it's Rivers, Robbo, Newton and Frawley... Miller and Juice to play through CHF, Neitz and Robbo deep, and Dunn on the wing or on the back flank. Juice has a big engine, and we'll lose little in terms of pace. Honestly though, I doubt Neale will go with 5 big tall forwards, so it's not gonna happen. Brock probably WILL play as he's shown he can bounce back from injury, and play a blinder. In other news, I'm looking forward to Beamer and Bartram getting games before too long. They'll be VERY important when they return.

Isn't it amazing how we all were thinking 10-0 was a possibility. And we got it COMPLETELY wrong... Never greater proof that there is no such thing as an expert in footy.

I'd like to feel sorry for the older guys... But consider this... You've had 20, 30 maybe 40 years of this... The younger ones among us have our whole LIVES to watch demon mediocrity.