Dappa Dan

It wouldn't be anything to do with the shaved head would it? I get that 'do done all the time BECAUSE it makes you look younger/slimmer somehow. I'll believe the hype about all this skinfolds malarkey when he comes out and plays 4 quarters... If he doesn't he'd better play 3 scintillating ones.

His hangers are taken less than 50% of the time probably. But that's ok. His leading and overhead marking is up there with Bate, but not quite as prodigious. As a FF as long as he's instructed to, he'll be able to lead and mark often. The whole thing about him attempting hangers is that when he's out of position and can't get a run up, like Robbo, he can still get his hands to it.... get it to the deck and get the Davey's of this world a go... And yes. On the lead I can't remeber him dropping one, even when heavily under the pump. In the packs when he flies good things happen. And yes. He does take one a week usually. He's like Robbo only he uses his hands and is tall... Am I getting anyone excited? I know I am...

Whoa. Take it easy.... Take a squiz at my original post. My point was that there is HEAPS of reasons in the pro column for selecting Juice. His form, the quality of the opposition, the type of opposition defenders, The fact that he's not on his own, the lack of other tall forwards in good form (Dunn, Miller = indifferent).... I think you'll find I'm actually all FOR Juice getting selected. My point was that if they wanted to play him, they could have for about 8 of the 11 rounds that have gone by already. Why haven't they? SO much has been written and my only answer left in my pea-brain is that they're waiting for a time when both Robbo and Neita are at full flight, Bate is in the midfield and there are no other options. Maybe they were just waiting for a match at the G to debut him, like Bate who was held back a week for his debut... I don't agree with it mate... But then if I had it my way, Juice would have had his debut weeks ago. The thing is he will be counted on if he stands the square with Robbo and is the tallest bloke inside 50. And you're absolutely right. It's very simple. Now is the time to play him. Will he be played? I doubt it. Why? WHO KNOWS! We're all just guessing. And all I'm saying is that the footy department may be waiting for the PERFECT time to debut him.... Now is as good an opportunity as any, but it's not PERFECT....

I keep harping on about this, I know, but there is one factor that makes me think it's NOT the perfectly scripted opportunity. I think had Robbo had the operation, THAT would be the perfect time. I think Juice will be hard pressed to come in and take the second-best defender, and Neitz usually wipes out about 2 when he crashes a pack. Personally I'd like to see all those leading half forwards like Bate, Sylvia and Dunn rotate with Juice, and were he up to it this early Garland. Personally if Robbo and Neita are playing, I reckon Juice would go better. But if he shares the square with Robbo, I have some nerves for him.

Hello everybody. Everyone at this party had picked up their drinks and sausage rolls and come into THIS room, and I was wondering where you'd all gone, so I thought I'd pop my head in the door and see what all the Hubbub was al about. I almost never read or write on Miller threads. Not because they upset me or anything, they just get VERY boring. Nut I found this post summed up my feelings. It's no longer a case of will Miller play forward or back, and what do we do to get him to play like the star we THOUGHT he was. It's been proven that he's not as good a footballer as our most pessimistic members had predicted. So what does that mean? Will the fact that he was once in the leadership group make it impossible for him to be able to just quietly disappear and become a depth player? Does he have to reassess his goals as a footballer? Do we just retain him in Benny's role for the next 10 years? Do we trade him since he's young? To be honest, I'd be very gunshy about delisting or trading young KP forwards. That's not to say I wouldn't do it. And old, I hope you're sentiments carry and that he does find a niche where he's not a liability for 12 games a year. It would be GREAT for everyone to get off his back. But in the end, if he were delisted, I'd understand.

Was in bests for hawks. I'm assuming that Smith is OUR Smith... sigh... Though I shouldn't be sad. I'd take Juice ANY day over Smith. Younger, more talented, fasterm more skilled... etc etc.

Yep... a big enough moment to make my signature... I'm not much of a Melbourne historian, and in a fantastic 2-3 hour MFC history DVD I was given they describe the Norm Smith years, and they even describe the events, but they NEVER say WHY the board sacked him... they just say it was a shock, was not fair, and that it broke his heart etc etc... I'd love for someone to tell us where the sacking originated from... There are many demons people, myself included who are just WAY too young to ever have a hope of understanding without our elders telling us...

Yep, all that needs to happen to make this thread of the year is someone to come on and propose promoting Sautner to the demons...

That was VERY interesting... Gee he was honest about needing to get harder.... also put paid to the rumours that Daniher has never actually spoken to him... But I think we may have got the tiiiiiiiiniest glimpse of why he might be being held back... He sounded more intelligent than your average footballer, but my goodness was he ever nervous! He got to the point that he stuttered so much he forgot his point! While he was in the middle of "football talk!" I'm not saying that was the answer to the question... but it was a fascinating interview... For a mountain of a lad, he sounds like he should be in a Harry Potter movie! Oh, and I liked how he described Nick Sautner.... he said he was "pretty good" about 18 times. Not great. Not below average. Not crap. Just "pretty good"

Saying Chris Judd is another midfielder, is like saying a porsche is another car.... Judd is so much more than just a midfielder. What he brings to the table NO-ONE can bring to the table... leadership, hardness, work ethic, goals, hardball gets, delivery, consistency, ability to shake a tag, professionalism, a marquee player.... The list goes on and on... And consider the difference he would make to the FLEET of young players eager for an example to be set... Judd would make a 38-year-old White look good...

A little bit of gutter humour is NEVER below me...

I scoffed when I saw this, but upon further reflection, I think you may at least be onto something. In my mind; - I like our tall defenders coming through. Rivers and Frawley could be wonderful, Carroll I like for 5 more years... - Our forward structure has me VERY nervous. Among our best prospects we have a part time tall forward (Bate), A Tall forward who hasn't yet shown he's capable of being a league leader (Dunn), and a freak of a talent who hasn't yet played a game. It's certainly possible that all 3 could go on to become the most dominant KP forward set-up in the game... but it's more likely that maybe one, or two will come through and hold things together. That doesn't inspire me with confidence. - Our midfield has always been something I just put a tick on, and move on to the next problem. But if I look at it more, we don't have the rotations we probably need for 22 rounds plus finals. Even if we got Judd to the club, it's only half the job to say he, Mclean and Jones will be awesome... they need backups.... and all the midfield backups are a mixed bunch of mid-height players, soft or small outside wingmen, old, or depth players who really aren't too good at footy... At the start of the year I looked at our rotations and discovered we had a starting midfield and 2 complete rotations I was happy with... now I'm not so sure... At the start of the year: 1st: White, McLean, Jmac, Bruce, Johnstone, Green 2nd: Jamar, Jones, Pickett, Bate, Bartram, Davey 3rd: PJ, Bell, Godfrey, CJ, Moloney, Sylvia.... with old man Yze if you were desperate. Now I look at it some of those players are no longer even viable midfield options... 1st: White, McLean, Jones, JMac, Bruce, Johnstone. (Bruce isn't playing in the guts as much anymore, Trav's beenhot and cold, Jones has lifted) 2nd: PJ, Green, Bartram, Moloney, Davey, Godfrey. (PJ is now second preferred and looking much better, Green has drifted out of the guts, Bartram is still important, Moloney showed his importance in just a few games, Davey is becoming a dangerous winger, Godfrey has gotten more out of himself than anyone but if he's in our second rotation it shows we have problems) 3rd: Jamar, Pickett, Bate.... (these guys CAN play there. Jamar has, and has been disgraceful around the ground, Pickett is a complete "?", and Bbate has the capability but you just want 3 of him, and could be wasted on ball when he could be a forward target) That leaves Bell (defender, defender, defender), CJ (Unlikely to be anything more than a winger/flanker), Sylvia (I like him a sa forward) and Yze (getting on a bit)... all of whom I'd prefer not to have to use in the guts. The luxury we have now though, is that we have 2 rotations that are quite useful. In reality, that second rotation is pretty good, and many of them could be in a first rotation at another club. the beauty is that we don't need to go and recruit like nutcases, and pickup 6 draft picks worth of quick midfielders... We can afford to recruit with our first or second pick, just one or two a year and we should be kept in good stead in the years to come. Many of those guns shown above are VERY young. So well done Deanox, But I will say that while you're right, I think the situation is NOWHERE NEAR as dire as our ruck problem, and problems with tall forwards...

With all due respect, Wrecker when fit has had a bad year, and when brought back from injury, was a liability. Yes he's a champion of the club, but at some point you have to allow for him to be regarded as the kind of player that may need a week in the magoos. It's happened to ooze, it'll happen to Neitz if he relinquishes the captaincy and uns into bad form. It's a bit early for Wheels to fall back to the packin terms of quality, and I'm sure he'll come back better than ever in the next 12 months, but for now... Also, it doesn't help when you've got Petterd and Bell looking magnificent on the two flanks. It did? I think I remember one, maybe two people say he could have gone in the proper draft. Hardly went into raptures though.

Personally, I prefer to have Juice FIGHT for his spot in the Sandy side, and learn from a great VFL forward about the game, and also learn how to win and play competitively rather than have a walk up start in a magoo team... He's learning, and he's learning from as good a set of teachers as you kind find outside the AFL... But we don't see this, do we?

Jeez that's a tall forward line...

it's my day off.... Why not? Johnson to pick up Johnson 2 weeks in a row... Nathan Brown to pick up Nathan Brown 2 weeks in a row... Matt White on Jeff White Danny Hughes on Cleve Hughes Mabe Rains on Rivers? White - King? Pickett - Hyde? Newman - Bell? (a bit cryptic) Dunn - Moore? Knobel - Neitz? Gee I'm pushing it now....

Davey on Davis or Davies? I liked that... so I went and had a look at the site to see if I could find any others... And I came up empty... The closest ones were Sylvia and Carroll on Cox, Dick and Goldsack... Maybe Rivers to nullify Burns.... Oh well... there's always next week....

Why can't I be that succinct?

I have, have I? Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Just like your comparisons of Grgic to Bell... I didn't MISS points. I DISREGARDED points that I found too absurd to even contemplate. If you want to disagree, do it. If you want to make the infantile internet forum equivalent of "talk to the hand," then run along to bigfooty, or PuntRoadEnd. This is demonland.

Yeah... Pretty much covered it there BB. I'm sure it'll help us to free him up for another opponent, maybe have him play a more attacking role. Perhaps run with Buckley if he plays. There are pros and cons to both scenarios though. I tell you what, this may well be the game of the year for the demons.

That's probably the smartest thing written about him yet. Particularly the thing about the fact his detractors will have the chance to pick at him. Belly will be beaten in the near future. In fact, there may come a season or two when he'll be the next Daniel Ward, or Simon Godfrey of demonland. It seems every player, including Neita, gets their turn. The point is, right now, he's showing quality. Some players... mane players never even do THAT, let alone in their first 50 games. Yes. I didn't say he's definitely going to be a star. I didn't say he was goig to be a champion. I've seen enough from the start of his career to now, in light of the fact that within 38 games he's taken on and THRASHED a guy who's mature and in the top ten in the race for the Coleman in a VERY good side. Belly has played not A FEW, but MORE THAN A FEW good games. And now a great game. Once again. I've seen enough to back him in for now to go the journey. But you kep making the comparisons with Jase Cloke. Define carried away? Am I excited that we have a mid-height defender who can be both accountable AND attack, as well as do all the little 1%ers AND be physically punishing, spoil etc etc? YES! Has it escaped you vision that THAT'S WHAT WE'VE NEEDED over the past few years?! We can get 3 good midfielders and I wouldn't be as excited as having one truly multi-dimensional defender who, in terms of class, could with luck and perseverance catch the great Matty Whelan. Where do you get off telling people NOT to get excited when we have found a good player?!!! Love child? Blow it out your arse. I've been fair, correct and emotionless when it comes to Bell. I've been verbose, but then I get verbose about the grass they play on... Oh for the love of.... Go back. Look at the tape. Look at the threads. Bell played an average game. Staker kicked 2 goals. Bell had a not-so-good day.... was he terrible? No. He was not terrible, or horrific, or crap. He was smashed by a midfield that had no opponents. Note that Judd kicked more goals than Bell's opponent for the day, and he wasn't even up that end of the ground technically. EVERY defender was keelhauled that day. Every MFC PLAYER was killed, with the exception of maybe 2 or 3... Demon 16. Stop telling me and others what to think about Daniel Bell. For the longest time I was part of a minority with my support for him. I have NEVER said he'd be of the class of Brock, or Trav, or Bruce or Neita. But I think if people get off his back, and stop claiming he has to go, then I'll be pleased and I likely won't post about him in any great detail again. If you want to suppress peoples' excitement over him? Go right ahead. You'll discredit and make a fool out of yourself, what do I care? When his form inevitably dips, you may or may not jump right on his back. Either way I won't attempt to make you accountable, your opinion is your own. Bottom line, we have EVERY RIGHT to be excited about the fact the Woey trade, and a first round pick looks like he may repay the faith, time and money spent on him. He has played 38 games in 5 years as a result of injury, and has now achieved the not-to-be scoffed at step of dominating an AFL game against a quality opponent. As far as I'm concerned that is cause for celebration, no matter who the player is. And for the last time, no-one's claiming he is or isn't going to be a "star" or "champion" whatever tose words mean. What he seems likely to be is a player you're glad to have on your list. PS... (edit) I forgot to mention. Just to put all this in context, we have another young defender playing at MFC that I'm FAR more excited about. With what Petterd brings to the team, I put him ahead of Bell... And I'd be interested in what people make of a comparison of the two...

I was just thinking about Carroll as I watched the replay today... He's not been spoken about much, certainly compared to last year, but he comes up a lot in conversations surrounding our defensive 6, or our future 3 defensive KP players. And often what is written is not good. We all know the sun shines powerfully out of Rivers' posterior, and already any objective footy fan can see Frawley has talent... For mine Carroll, even when getting lots of goals kicked on him, is nearly as important over the next 5 years as these two. No, he's not the perfect player, but his strengths simply cannot be ignored. He marks strongly, is a smart if not gifted kick, is as courageous as the day is long, and one of the more startling things about him is his resilience... I was thinking about his pain tolerance when he was lying on the ground, looking VERY ginger as Perrie was taken off to hospital. Every second week he is cleaned up horrifically, yet his effort, and the quality of his footy remains a constant no matter WHAT happens.... For a guy I thought may never make it at AFL level, he is an absolute rock in defence these days. I am now completely comfortable seeing that weird head bobbly around in the packs, and when it's not there, I'm just a liiiittle more nervous.

Good post.

I agree that people have made a big deal about Juice, but I think for now, it's justified... And I'll tell you why. Remember last year (I think) when a mature-age rookie by the name of Rix came through the system? He's a VERY average footballer... but his entrance to AFL was fascinating. Juice doesn't have an interesting story to go with him, but he's a talent... As far as I'm concerned, I'm sick of no-name players getting spoken about in the media when they debut for the Blues, Pies, Bombers, Saints, Richmond... I want people to suss out an MFC player early for once... and in that sense, Juice has done enough for demons supporters AT LEAST to get into talkback about him. I wish there was SOME positive hyteria for the club. I'd take that at this stage...

No... Nope... I'm gonna say I told you so. I saw it BEFORE he came good at the end of last year. And for the last 12-16 MFC games he has been awesome. The I told you so came WEEKS ago. And a terrible one. Grgic failed for reasons specific to him and him alone. He had attitude problems. Belly is as close to having attitude problems as he is to ovulating. Grgic was also more talented. Bell is as hard a worker as they come. The analogy is tripe. You know it. I know it. We all know it. Ummm.... yes. Yes they do. And what's a few? 3? 6? He's played quality football for more than half a season now. The best footballers play good footy in their first 50 games. When Buckley played well in his first 50 people were saying he was a future star. Now I'm not saying Belly is a star, but he's earned the tag of quality footballer. It's simple really. Any AFL list would trade for him. For varying prices admittedly, depending on their need at the time, but Bell's asking price has quadroupled. What does THAT tell you? Where have you been? We've been belting out the I told you so's since about round 18-22 last year. He hasn't played one good game. He's played about 10 good games in 15, and he's played one ABSOLUTE CORKER of a game. Oh who wasn't crap? He had a couple of goals kicked on him. He wasn't thrashed. Actually, he was probably in our best 10, which says something about our quality on the day. He had no help, and you're bringing up his peformance against WC as evidence? Which players actually won their positions that day? Belly wasn't crap. He was par for the course. No. But Bell IS a gun. Look mate, if you can't see it by now, you're one of those supporters who'll take 3 years to come to the conclusion, and belatedly agree when he's approaching game 100 that he's a gun. I'm not saying he's a star. I'm not saying he's a champion. But the guy brings absolute AFL quality to the table. Professionalism, hardness... We have a LOT of players who people apply a simple tag to... Ward, Godfrey, Brown = these are players that won't win you a premiership... Harsh... but fair in many respects. Bell is the kind of player that not only would not be carried to a flag, he'd contribute. He IS a possible premiership player (with the right list around him) even if he isn't the guy who'll win it off his own boot... And you want people to temper their enthusiasm? We're 1-9 mate. I do think one thing though that may align me with you a bit. Belly's probably in our top 3 for the B&F right now. Certainly in the top 5. That's a concern. He really shouldn't, on talent, be in our top 10. Like ND said some years ago, if we want to win a flag it needs to be Bruce, Green, Neitz, White, Brock etc etc in our top 10. Belly is a defender... I'm certain that if we get ourselves together next year, Belly will fall back into the pack. But that's ok... he's supposed to. What I love is that he was one of 3 that won the game for us. You can't do that if you're not a good player. A matchwinning back pocket who can play tall, and not only break even but DOMINATE... He doesn't even need to win that many games off his own boot. Just the odd one here and there and he'll fulfill his role. Go Belly.