Dappa Dan

I've seen both play. I'd support the rookieing of Valenti, as it might be good to see how he goes against AFL pace and strength midfielders. He has EVERYTHING and more in the guts, including sensational vision, guts and hardness. Was a brilliant eader out of the middle this year for Sandy. The only drawback is his size. He's just SO tiny he may only be relied upon to tag, or to get the pill a la West. Maybe receive and run with it but that's about it. Could be a bit one-dimensional. Like the nugget who was tried in various spots around the ground, but will always be a midfielder ONLY, and as a consequence was played in the guts virtually every second he was on the ground... Do we need a poor man's Nathan Jones? Maybe we do.... And putting a kid on the rookie list with a year or two's growth already behind him may be a good move. Less need for the crystal ball.... As for Martin, I would be concerned about drafting him. He wasn't as good as Neaves in the ruck, and his kicking, predictably given his background, was abonimable. We don't need another Jamar... though I grant his athleticism was attractive from a recruiter's point of view.

I think he means it's an EASIER job... You don't need good footskills, hands, a great leap, and you don't necessarily need to run all that fast, depending on who you're tagging. Tagging is reactionary, like defending. If you're the midfielder, or forward who has to CREATE the opportunities, you could argue that's harder.

I knew you'd say that... Ok... The title of the thread was how long til we make finals... I say we could make them next year but we couldn't win a flag. Trav has his problems, but is a proven finals performer. Despite all his foibles, if you had the list around him that were capable of having a tilt (we all thought we had that list at the start of the year) then you'd hang onto him as he WILL win games off his own boot (maybe not as many as we'd like) at some stage. If there's one thing this last season showed, it's that we didn't have the strength in our team we thought we did. All in all, my post was more a comment on that than Trav. It was just a passing comment that trading Trav for a pick that will take time to develop is IRONCLAD proof that we aren't looking at a tilt next year. Before the club did that we had sort of heard rumours of trade talk, and we saw some VERY average footballers delisted, but the Johnstone trade is the most definitive action we've seen so far that sheds light on the intentions of the football department. Just consolidating my position. Trav trade = Good move for all...

If you look at my post, I was not bemoaning Trav's trading. Only raising the point that it's proof that we are not looking at a flag next year. Even if he had stayed we still would not be looking at a flag. I support the trade wholeheartedly, and looking at how the Voldemort/Bell trade has worked out, it was absolutely the right choice, even if pick 14 is a fizzer. You've got to be in it to win it. We're on the same page, I think you'll find.

What are we up to now? Like 20 posts? Some threads don't even crack 10. Our work here is done...

Couldn't give a stuff about finals. Premiership is all I'm thinking about... I watched the Roos this year, all year claim they were changing the perceptions of the football world about their quality. I still don't rate them, and even while they were playing good footy I didn't. I thought absolutely best case scenarios they get a nice finals run and get bundled out in a prelim. They were disgraced, and that was as far as they were ever going to go this year. Mediocre "success" can be a curse. Now I'm not advocating a complete bottom out, no-one likes tankers (Blues), but I don't care if it takes 5 years, I want a solid list that could win a premiership, and nothing in between. There are a bunch of guys that are good enough to be premiership players, but we don't have 22 of them... And don't give me this "Geelong did it" stuff... They had a solid list and had the courage, after a TERRIBLE season, to hang onto the quality (Thompson) and get rid of the dead wood (Kinsley). They had a LOT of luck, and a LOT of Father/Son fortune, and their strength paid the ultimate dividend. Trading Trapper for, presumably, a player who will take a few years to hit his stride, was not the way to go to win a flag NEXT YEAR. YES it was likely the right choice that we will be applauding when Travis retires and we have a new star, but for 2008 it was like reaching into your pocket for the white flag... So to answer your question: I think ultimately we just don't have the cattle to go all the way. Yes, I am picking us to make finals... and to restore some measure of pride, but that's about it... Having said that... I FULLY expect the demons, particularly Brock, Bate, Bell, Neitz, Robbo, Rivers, Jones, Moloney and others to come out absolutely breathing fire next year. And when we get to round 10-12 and we've done some carnage, EVERYONE will be expecting them to fall over as we do every year... And that's when Brock McLean will come to the fore and go supernova in the middle of the MCG destroying everything in his path... If this happens (And it will have to have a lot to do with Dean) THEN we will have healed the damage of last season to some degree. But only if we break this pattern that's become so ingrained in our players of falling over after the halfway mark. This is a very new young list that everyone in MFC and beyond has acknowledged holds our fate in their hands. It's no longer up to Yze, Green, Bruce and co to let it slide... Come mid-season next year, maybe the year after if we have another injury horror run, Dean Bailey will have won over his supporters if he can do the above...

Brilliant... From now on, if Juice has a good game, or does something noteworthy, I'm not going to go into any detail. I'm just going to say... Newton is good...

No more Moorcrofts please..

Look at that picture of the nugget... What a ripper eh? Looming large with the biggest ogre in football coming at him... In a few years he'll be bigger and will start to strike fear into opposition supporters' hearts. And yes, with the bald head and man-child physique, he'll become a cult hero soon, but will hopefully transcend that and drift more toward being a star of the league, if he hasn't already.

No. We already have one of the smallest, albeit most brilliant, players in the side. With two Daveys running around we would struggle with the hard stuff. It's all well and good to have him there as depth for when Aaron does his annual hammy, but Alwyn can do better. Two Daveys... we'd just be pushed aside.

Gardner. Has been fantastic, and has, at leats to the public been hugely respected and professional in the public eye. If he HAS to leave this would be a sensationsal way for it to happen. And the main reason I say that is that if he leaves on his own terms, and it all goes belly up with whoever takes over, there's no reason why he couldn't be asked to reprise his role. Unlike Gutnick and others who were kicked out, challenged, and basically were [censored] off in the process of leaving, Gardner won't be shunned... In other words, strength in numbers. Now on the "demons" thing: While technically we haven't been called the demons for the entire history of MFC, it would be utterly shameful to drop it now, not to mention just plain dangerous and problematic when you consider our trouble with identity. If a fresh start is what we need, look to the new facilities, and not to our mascot. Leave the fans something in our gloom. We are the demons. That at least has never been negotiable.

Never a truer word spoken. The Eagles and AFL should be collectively ashamed of themselves. This has been a disgraceful, over political handling of a simple situation all year, and now a player, club, sport and god knows how many familys have had to for it. Role models indeed.

He just wants to be the guy that can say "you heard it here first" when we finally do a Geelong and come screaming back into contention. Personally I saw this year coming, though nowhere near as severely as it did, and I fully expect us to improve 100, maybe 200 percent, but we will have to have our share of luck to make finals, and a top 4 or premiership is almost impossible.

Well done Ferg, I have a feeling you're not done at AFL level, I reckon someone will have a crack at him as a late bloomer... a very late bloomer. Shame the club couldn't get anything for you, but I think you should be pleased with your career thus far. Well done mate...

When we picked up Vardy, he had a sensational year, and was still a fantastic player for subsequent years, if a bit injury ridden. Consider for a moment what our forward line would be like with him in it now. We could REALLY use a dashing, marking, leading, crumbing forward who can kick them from impossible angles from 55 out. Remember the goal he kicked that started that unbelievable run in the 2002 Semi against Adelaide? He did that regularly. Sylvia is a similar player I reckon, that's how highly I rated Vardy. I remember about 10 rounds into Pickett's stay I thought we had another great trade on our hands (and to some degree we did), as it turned out he didn;t stick around. For mine, Vardy has been our best trade in recent years (not including the draft picks we traded for, eg Belly...)

Go toigs...

Is no-one else a tiny bit shocked by this? The guy was ONLY JUST given the captaincy after all. I always find it a bit more high stakes when they talk about trading or delisting captains, or former captains.

That 2002 final was probably just about the most I've hurt post game EVER. Couldn't crack a smile for days, and I'm pretty sure I didn't eat much for at least 48 hours. Dont know why really. The most we had to look forward to was destruction in the prelim. The Port game this year hurt, but then I didn't really mind, our season was shot already. I like what you have to say H, particularly the call to arms stuff, but personally I've never really thought of Travis as the kind of player that SHOULD have become great. He could have, but needed a Smith/Barassi/Matthews/Sheedy to motivate him. On his own I counted at least 3 really good years from the guy while in maturity, which is ok, maybe just falling under expectations. I don't rate the whole "number 1 draft pick" thing. Once drafted, each player has a similar road to travel. Personally, I reckon 10 years, a B&F and numerous high finishes, and MOST IMPORTANTLY a first round pick are what are important here. I would have thought maybe pick 10 or 8 would have been more suitable given the shallowness of the draft (pick 14 last year would have been MUCH better for example), but in the end that's just details. As you say, I trust CAC... I'm not bitter at all. Yes I would have preferred a Harvey/Cousins etc etc out of him, but unlike you I didn't EXPECT it. Those teams are lucky to have drafted such freaks, and in some cases those teams are rich enough (WC) have enough pull (McGuire) or are just plain cheats (Blues). I'm glad for the direction the club is taking in regards to this trade, but underneath it I'm also struggling to come to terms with the fact that players like Bruce/Robbo/Trav/Neitz/Brown/White/JMac will never play in a premiership side at MFC. Perhaps we're not rebuilding COMPLETELY, but for those guys the best they can hope for is to go through the motions and mentor the players that have a chance. And so the cycle continues. We have to wait until these under 23s are four years older before we can get genuinely excited again. That's a fair while to wait, and a fair few more experiences like rounds 1-12 this year. In that light, you are absolutely spot on H... It was time.

Nice. I rated Wellman when he played, and I rate the Dogs' defence. But then I said the same about Williams and the Swans' midfield.

Under Matthews Trav, you will fnally become the player you were supposed to become... Your decision was the right one. You gave us nearly 10 years of good footy and we got a first round pick for you, I'd say we're about even. Good luck Trapper. Sad to see you go, but understand it all the same...

I don't believe it. Round 22, we could have had picks 2, 18 and 20.... Instead we now lose probably the best footballer at the club, and get a pick only a few above what we could have had in the first place and we get another Daniel Ward as a replacement... (Harsh on Shaw, but he's not a great deal better). We used picks 13 and 14 (Or was it 14 and 15?) a few years ago in a similarly shallow draft and we got 426 and Bell. Granted Belly is coming along, but gee just in the nick of time, and we all know the story with Smith. The Trapper trade will hurt us, and picks 4 and 14? Ho hum...

Didn't we win that game? I'm all for trading him, You can make excuses as much as you like, and many of them may be valid, but there are heights the guy simply will never reach as a footballer. If he's retained it's as the next Holland... With that in mind, wouldn't it make sense to trade him for something that may go on to be greater? It's simple really...

Bless your cotton sox Y_M...

This won't be a popular post, but had the Blues not tanked round 22 we would have pick 2 and have had more of a shot at this one, even assuming Judd had selected the Blues as preferred.

:D :D :D:D:D