Dappa Dan

Why the hell not? If we trade him for a relatively reliable young first option ruck to help White out and take over the job in coming years, we solve a HUGE problem in our list, and gain another one. We don't have good crumbing forwards. We have one or two. We need 2 starters and 2 in development. This is a place we've been lacking in for a while. Davey doesn't crumb in the forward line so much because he's not being played there as much. Also since the All-Stars game he's been playing like a leading forward. Fair enough, the guy's taken a body blow or two this year, but with the right attitude and the right coach there is NO reason why he can't turn it around and be dangerous again. Oh, and your suggestions of trading Robbo and TJ have my stamp of approval. I love them both, Robbo moreso, but they are going to have questionable effect on our results... they both may suffer greatly under a new coach... and they're of the prime trading age. I never really "hope" that a player gets traded, it's not a good thing 90% of the time, but these two are the closest thing to workable, sensible trades we have. The paradox is that in a crap year you want to trade everyone, but usually the reason you've had a crap year is because your best players aren't doing enough... as a consequence their trade value is diminished... The Davey trade is an interesting case, but there's no question, he should not be traded. Oh and to anyone who suggests he's not one of our best, he's been up there in our goalkickers.... and add to that he doesn't have a LOT of competition.

Doesn't it just. DAZZLER!!! Watch out, he's on a role.... And what does that tell you? You bang on and on and the result is always the same... Sweet diddly... I thought the original post made an interesting point. First of all, let me say, we are not going to trade Davey. Simple as that. We won't, we shouldn't, we'd be stupid if we did... HOWEVER... After my initial five-minute-long scoff at the suggestion, I had a closer look and realised what the original point of this thread was, and the more I though about it the closer it got to making sense. - You have to trade something to get something. Everyone always says trade Wheatley/Ferguson, but what would we get for them? This is the crux of the Green, Trav, Bruce, Sylvia trade talk... They have value. - Davey's form and mood has taken a HUGE dive, and worse than that he's been misbehaving. We made the right call (I reckon) with Jeff Farmer who was more trouble than he was worth. At the time people decried the trading tactic, as they did with he-who-shall-not-be-named... but in the end, we offloaded trouble after identifying we were going to struggle with him around. Long story short, if they traded Davey they'd have a riot to deal with, but in the long run, if Davey did what Farmer has done (come out of his shell and become arrogant and self-serving), those who traded him would be lauded as geniuses. - He's lost his coach. That shakes the ground you stand on no matter who you are. His mate Byron could very easily not be at MFC next year, and Wrecker hasn't been seen for god knows how long. - Davey can do things no-one else in the league (besides maybe Alwyn) can do... But with that great skill comes enormous weaknesses. As Rhino has pointed out over and over, he's not proven himself in finals, and this year has made me lose all confidence in his finals credentials... So in short, he's a flashy, dangerous, star player that we picked up for nothing, but if he's not going to drag us over the line in a premiership, doesn't it make sense to go with your head not your heart? After all that playing devils advocate, I know in my head that despite it being HUGELY unpopular, there would be benefits to making the decision to offer him in trades. But as far as I'm concerned, unless we get the next big KP player, we are always going to get the raw end of the deal. A new club would almost certainly rejuvenate him. A decent set of team-mates and enforcers would free him up wonderfully (imagine him at Sydney or West Coast) and he'd hurt us in years to come. This year is NOT a strong draft year and there is NO WAY KNOWN he's only worth a second rounder. If Tarrant can go for a first rounder in a superdraft year, then Aaron's asking price should be top 6 this year. In my opinion though, the ONLY reason we'd trade him is if we got a bona-fide KP defender, or an up and coming ruckman like McKintosh... In the end, we don't have a dearth of crumbing forwards, Davey is the best in the league, or slightly behind Didak if you barrack for the pies... we'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul. Simply put, you don't trade your best players. They're hard enough to come by as it is. 99 times out of 100 you say no to a Davey trade... and on the 100th... you think about it... and you still say no.

You don't retire good players prematurely. If he wasn't so important to the team on field, and if he wasn't captain he'd be just another veteran on the injured list... only this veteran is the most decorated, experienced and important demon of the past 10 years. He's that good that even when he's not going to be at his best for 22 rounds, you still retain him. Like Grant at the dogs, only he's a better player. But like White, Yze and soon JMac, we as supporters have to learn to lower expectations just a bit...

This is my fear too... Though he did come out in the media a few weeks ago and say he was committed to playing again next season. I just reckon a big-headed coach may come in and not want to rely on him so much. Maybe that's why he's desperate to play and play and play. He could get to next year on 299, do a knee in the pre-season... and be stranded on 299 for all time. God knows that's his luck.

Ridiculous isn't it.... Or is it? Can't be more of a tank really...

Oh... I forgot. Apologies about McLean... I misread Moloney as McLean earlier.

Ok. So I'll assume for now that you are not "having a go" at Jones, rather lowering the expectations somewhat... My problem here is that you are applying a "rating" to a 19 year old kid that had no right to play as much footy as he has, been as effective as he has, and play as much game time as he has. His kick is fine. He's drilled NUMEROUS goals from 50, sometimes slightly outside. He's a FANTASTIC in and under... you even concede that point, and yet you claim he's average. Long story short, we've had talent GALORE for years. And look where it's gotten us. We have recruited another 3 JMacs to the team so we don't have trouble getting the pill like we have in the past, simply because outside players are a dime-a-dozen... Jesus. He's 19!!! Getting 12-15 possessions a game is right where he should be, and he's exceeded those expectations. I think you're being too analytical. The amount of intangibles in footy are too numerous to mention, but one of those that seems to count for more in the win/loss column is desire. The kind of desire that has a domino effect on the more weaker-willed players in every side. Call it leadership if you want. Neita has it, JMac has it, Chook has it... And Jones has it. Look at the Roos, Pies, Crows, Power, even Sydney.... They are chockablock full of players who want it, and LOVE the hard stuff. Look at where they are on the ladder. Footy, like war it seems comes down to a simple equation at times... The most committed wins. Jones tips the scales in our favour as much as a single member of the 22 could. But again, you are entitled to your opinion. Call him over-rated, there will always be "football scientists" who will say this. Personally, I'm pleased as punch he's in red and blue. The scientists would never have predicted Harvey would last that long...

I love it when know-it-alls get on this site and talk down the prospects of players that are just about UNIVERSALLY regarded as guns... I look forward to hanging a world of the brown stuff on you hen you're proven wrong in the coming years. Sylvia and McLean ordinary? If Jones and those two were at a different club with decent facilities, money, profile... they would be considered as much their future, and would have infinitely more help from their mates... West Coast and Sydney notwithstanding... But you keep at it... Those blinkers fit nice and snug... I don't really think it bothers anyone that you can't open your eyes and look at the facts... MFC fans like you make me want to puke.

In a word... No. Look at the other champions of the current era... they go season after season playing worse and worse, then they come out and play like Hird has this year. Neita's body may be letting him down, but you give the champions every opportunity to play out their careers to a completion that they want. He deserves this. It was only last year he was a fantastic and ppowerful FF... Having said all that, today I was feeling more than ever that the end is nigh. He'll play next year, may not be captain but he'll be there, and it will probably be his last.

Thankyou for putting their first names in... Rush trav back into the seniors, they are in DESPERATE need of his skill under pressure, faulted though he may be. And Bode? Generating some excitement. I had him completely written off. I don't suppose anyone had a look at Hayes or any of the other dees players? A big wrap would be heart warming, god knows we need it.

He's 19 mate... Unless I'm mistaken, there's a young kid who's played 300+ games for the Saints who can't kick, isn't fast and is regarded as an outside player. He seems to go alright. Jones is still in development, and yet is playing whole games in the guts, and doing his part... I'll take ANY player within his first 20 games doing what Jones has done. Perhaps he won't improve as much as we'd like, but I'd wager he will... And even if he doesn't become as good as Harvey, he WILL improve somewhat, and any failures he encounters along the way won't be for lack of effort... But you go ahead and call him over-rated... For all of you out there who are so worried about skill sets, not everything in football comes down to what you CAN do... for some it's about how much you want it. Bartram, Jones, McLean.... it's inside players like this that hold the future of a beleagured basket-case club in their hands... And for the first time in many years, we have a young core that's hungry.

No Bode, no Buckley... I'm all for making sure the kids aren't doing it on their own, but jeeeeeeezus.... As a club we really only have ourselves to blame. And the thing is that if we want Sheedy, we can't get him NOW to take over.

:o I see it... but I don't believe it...

HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take another look at it... Have any of you guys ever actually BEEN scared before? What happens? Your eyes go wide, you puff out your chest, and you angle your body ready for a fight or to scamper. Bell was JUSTIFIABLY confused when Brogan came up to him. He went to bump Wilson, and when he missed his arm went out and Wilson ran through it. He TOTALLY took a dive, and it all happened in Bell's blind spot... He looked like he was lost (which is an expression we're used to with Belly, bless his cotton socks), but that was not the face of a man frightened that he was going to be hurt by a ruckman who needs anger-management classes. Not only are you all making a mountain out of a molehill, but I don't believe there was a molehill there in the first place. The point is, as Nasher rightly points out, whether you are right or wrong, or whether emotion has gotten ahead of itself, or even sometimes when a player takes a dive you MUST be there to support your team-mates... The message it sends to supporters, coaches and most importantly the guys you're playing with is that if you throw yourself in there and HURT an opposition player, you will have to deal with the retaliatory strike on your own... Does this make the young players go in 100% every time? Well... with Belly, he likes to hit hard simply because he likes to hit hard... He's been doing it on his own all year, I doubt he'll stop trying to lay players out because of this... What worries me is that this is not the first time this year a player has had to go it alone.

Ooooooh... Interesting... It depends on the form of a lot of players who return from injury... But I'd say it's gonna be something like this... 1: JMac. Done the yards eary in the year and even now. Everyone else has severely off days, JMac doesn't. 2: Bell. Was leading the B&F at the split round. If he comes back and picks up where he left off he'll threaten, but is more likely to end up around the middle of the top 10. 3: Jones. Played nearly every game and while sometimes he doesn't get the big stats, he just keeps going and going and going. Deserves to be rated highly, and will keep getting better. One of those players who's deficiencies somehow make them a better player, a la West and Harvey. He is slowish, lacks penetration yet because of this his work ethic is stronger. 4: Bruce. Was the big stat getter early in the year, and if his kicking boot wasn't smeared in grease, he'd have been leading at the mid-way mark. One thing that may hurt him is that when he comes back from a few weeks off, he tends to take a while to get going again. Maybe an endurance thing... 5: White. Keeps racking up the tap-outs, but I'd have him this low because early in the year he wasn't quite doing enough. 6: Godfrey. I'd love to see this. We all love to see a battler get his dues. And he's a battler. He's been badly beaten a couple of times, but in those heart-breaking few games we got close in, he was one of the architects of destruction with his tagging. Godfrey in our top 10... who'd of thunk?! 7: Green. Solid but unspectaclar, and a few injuries. Got towelled once or twice, but had a few good games. Like it or lump it he's a leader at the moment. 8: Bate. Had a spectacular 6 week run there of being a devastating CHF. The lack of good players this year could mean that will be enough. The start of the year hurt him though. 9: Brown. Started to pick up a LOT of touches, and while he's not doing much, he's doing more than many others. Scraping the bottom of the barrell here. 10: Davey. Has been appalling and scintillating in equal amounts. I daresay his last month will be some of his best work. If he has any kind of character that is. Apologies to... Bizzell, Carroll, Petterd, Sylvia, Ward, Wheatley I reckon best first year player will DEFINITELY be Petterd. 9 games and more hope in that package than any of our newest and finest.

Is there any way we can put this on youtube? I can't get it to play...

Here's something that may create ire in the eyes of demonlanders... Ask yourself this: Given the circumstances of this year, the squad, the injuries, the coach leaving and the current coach coaching, the obvious semi-tanking tactics at the selection table etc etc... How sure are you that you could go in at over 100% intensity (what the Roos, Pies, Hawks and others bring as they are still in the running for a flag) if you were playing in their places? I'm grown up enough to say that I'd find a way to have a dip at the footy, to play hard within myself, and still go at 100%... but you're kidding yourself if you think the body-blows they've taken this year aren't having an effect on their morale. I see players that use every ounce of their heart ALL the time, and they still make horrendous blunders, like Brown, and I see players wax and wane in their moods like Robbo, have just as much effect on our year. You can't bottle confidence, or the inspiration that brings it. MFC is in a low time on-field. I for one EXPECT our better players to be beaten since most of our best are out, and the young guys that are in aren't quite up to it just yet. They're going in as hard as they can find the will to go... Unfortunately without support, and without enough skilled players, and without maturity and leadership we just have to make do with what we have. Our results so far reflect this. This situation is unfortunate, and we bleed, but don't let's be Richmond eh?

bazza... Don't try to cause a board spill. Don't use demonland to attempt to put forward your damaging politics. Don't come on here and try to make everyone upset... we can do that all by ourselves thankyou very much. In fact... Don't do anything destructive to the club. Pretty simple really.

Heeey! Well done 3xx... MUCH appreciated.

Wow. Big call dazzle... You're in on the ground floor with this guy. Let's see if you're right...

Yep. BUT.... I'll just stay behind and make sure the pitchfork is sharp and the torch has plenty of juice in it.... I have a feeling Holland won't be named, Jamar MIGHT be, and maybe Dunn for one other.

They guy has enough faults to make people think he can't be a league footballer... but the truth is he has strengths that put others to shame. - He's evidently a team-mate, if you look at the relationship between him and Carroll, which is as strong as any on-field despite being from entirely different walks of life... - He couldn't try more. Fact. - He's humble enough to come through when he says he will... just look at Byron for an opposite... And as much as I'd love a Mal Michael or Fletcher type defender, he's been rewarded for his courage and heart, and in the end as a member you have to be happy with that decision by the footy department. Personally I love the guy, but I concede that I love him because we're not relying on him. What I mean is, Brad Miller is similar as a faulted player who gives his all, but he's younger than 25, and we all had designs on him to be as good at CHF as Rivers is at CHB... Holland is a specialist defender, he's there as a kind of depth, and is respected and listed each year because of it. So in answer to your question, no he's not the MOST unfairly maligned, but he IS unfairly maligned...

Definitely the angle on this thread... I saw it happen at the ground, from just about EXACTLY the same angle as the camera shot we've seen replayed throughout the week. I remember thinking "if this wasn't such a crappy match, and awful time to be a dees supporter I might be more bouyant. But watching it again and again... it just plain doesn't get any better than that. We over-use the word special, but in this case that's EXACTLY what it was. He even kicked the goal. The only thing denying it from being perfect was the fact that he was attempting to take it with his hands, which you love to see, but he ended up missing it and taking it on the chest. Not the absolute perfect execution but near enough to it, and technique-wise you can't fault the placement of a single muscle fiber. My mates and I were all prepared for a 60 point loss, so that highlight was worth the price of admission. I'd missed his first few games of footy because of work committments, and was afraid I'd miss his first bag of 4 or more. I'm just so pleased that after backing him in all year I rocked up and he didn't let me down. Congratulations Juice... You're well on the way to making hoardes of demons fans (all 17 of them) fall in love with you. Keep working the way you're working and you'll start to hear crowds applauding you en masse, and people cheering your name... JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the kind of player who is capable of the kind of skills that bring people to MFC matches that don't even barrack for the red and blue.

You know what I hate about this?!! THE F&%#ing COMMENTARY!!!!! You can usually rely on those guys to give a good account of themselves... What kind of thing is it to say "He may never be heard of again." If they were any kind of commentary team they would have said he's a player of the future...

I fuly expect Neita to pay on next year, play every game he can and have an impact. Maybe he won't be in the running for the coleman, but by gee he'll be important for our big 3 KP forwards in Bate, Dunn and Juice, as well as guys like Garland and PJ. I actually reckon he could have a place in 2009, but in all seriousness, 2008 could be his last chance at a great year. I'm going to be there every week pretty much for him.