Dappa Dan

You make a good point there... but consider this. Charman and Minson will take 4-6 marks minimum, and get around the 20-mark for possessions. Charman even more. What makes these ruckmen the best is that they add possessions to their ruckwork. White's the same. Even if Jamar got to a position similar to Lade, where he smashed them in the ruck, then went forward and was good for some linking marks, and 2 goals a game. But again, an opposition coach would be thrilled to see this because he can just plonk his biggest guy on him, and he knows his player will get 10 touches a quarter, will play loose, run off him, and still be able to rest... It's not that he doesn't get enough possessions. It's that he gets almost none at all. More often than not he got 4 last season. He got 9 on Sunday. And look how well he went! If we can get him up to 15... well then I reckon he might be in for some long matches in the ruck for the demons.

Agreed. Ox's special comments are just going. About the same level of profundity as all the others. What makes him great on SEN are his attitudes and his humour, and the stuff you read between the lines. He's robbed of that on game-day when he calls for channel 7. And Robinson can go ok... but I agree. He'd be the guy down at the pub who craps on about the same garbage over and over again... and when he talks you kind of tune out and fantasise about winding up a big haymaker and sending him sprawling into the pool cues. His voice and short temper annoy me, but at least he says things...

I have an opinion on EVERY player. Some younger ones I don't commit to for lack of knowledge, like Cheney and Mcnamara. But other than that every player is either in my good books or bad books. Players I always defend: JMac: Obvious. Neitz: Was always going to decline, it was just a question of when and how much dignity we'd show him as he bowed out. This is one area that 'landers should hang their heads in shame. We have been awful you him, and he deserves every bit of respect we can muster. More than any player on the list, and as much as any player who ever played for the club, just about. Carroll: Why everyone marks him next to Scarlett is a mystery to me. He isn't as good as him, and he's not payed like he is. He's a good ordinary player, and I reckon if you asked he and the coach they'd admit the same thing. He's a good player, and an important player at the moment while we have so few in their footballing prime. Just because a players' not a star doesn't mean they're not important and/or hardworking. Green: He's not as bad as the nay-sayers will claim. He has his faults, but he's a very, very good player. Holland: You can't help but love him. I have no stats to back it up, but if you won premierships for attitude, this guy would be the next Pikey. PJ: I could echo the sentiments of everyone on here, but instead I'll remind you of why everyone should rate him. The only reason he didn't have a great 2006 was because of a stunning bit of self-sacrifice. The Sydney game where he ran 150 metres up to the wing to collect his own ball, got drilled by the Sydney ruckman going for a ball that was likely to go out. Even if he'd won it, glory would not have been his. Got his shoulder dislocated for his efforts, and STILL got up to take the boundary throw in... Instant cult figure for those who caught it. His attitude is top-notch, works hard, and has talent in a number of areas. Was ALWAYS going to make it in my opinion. Whelan: People calling for his head are wrong. Just plain wrong. One of maybe 3 players in the side who you pick even when only half fit. The ones I actively go at: Yze: Time has come. Warnock: He's about to come off this list I reckon, but at the start of the year I didn't think he was even a C-grader. And the biggest two: CJ: Just can't put a foot right. 4 years in the system and he's not even dominating the VFL. Jamar: I mark him roughly, as he won a Liston. But he should be better. MUCH better.

The salary cap thing sn't that big a deal is it? Both Ooze and Neita are on the veterans list which means half their wages go to the salary cap only. And both would be on greatly reduced pay scales anyway...

This victory's importance will live on a long time. Probably until Melbourne's eventual resurgence. Mediocre clubs don't win like that. Heartless teams don't win like that. Weak supporter bases don't have that kind of presence. The club made a call to arms, and their people and team responded. We have probably the worst list in the AFL for 2008 (only because we're rebuilding)... Only two things got us over the line on Sunday. One was red. The other was blue. Rocknroll.... Do you mind us asking who your Grandfather is? I'm dying of curiosity.

This is where it gets hazy. He says himself that he doesn't do match reports, he's not a football expert and doesn't attend all that many games... What he is... and I'd love it if anyone could even attempt to refute this, is a writer. Nothing more. He composes what he believes is attractive, easy to read prose about situations outside of actual football. His talent lies... well... Actually he has no talent. What he believes he is good at is writing to the masses. Also asking the appropriate questions, sifting through details that are unimportant, getting to the core of the issue, finding anything he believes may be reportable, and writing it in such a way that we can understand it. It's not written WELL (The Herald Sun, by it's very nature, is written at a grade-6 level) it's written to cater to the lowest common denominator. Why does someone cater to the lowest common denominator? Because you'll never go poor doing it. It's what football punters are increasingly seeing as "sensationalist" journalism. Chris Judd said it the other week when asked by Garry Lyon about what he thought of the media. Garry said "you hate them, don't you?" To which Judd said (and I for one believed him) that he doesn't care anymore. He mentioned that in the football media it's about getting stories out there, being loud... and they compromise the truth of the situation and appropriateness of their jobs in order to be heard... Tony Jones is probably the worst. On footy classified just last week we heard that when Nathan Thompson was dealing with his depression, they had learned that the story had been leaked to two journos and asked them both to hold the story back for 24-48 hours, in an effort to allow Nathan to do a press conference himself to bring light to the situation. The story would be released, peoples' livelihoods and careers hinged on it, it was important... more important than just footy... so one reporter (Hutchy) held it back. Tony Jones went with it... In this situation it's clear what's happening. Tony Jones is promoting HIMSELF, and perhaps his network. The story was news. It was going to reach the presses within a 24 hour period anyway. The ONLY reason Tony had to go with it was self-promotion. That's it... It's a great example of what's wrong with journos in the game. They are out for themselves alone... NOT football. And their increasingly low respect for teams and individuals' lives has gone a long way beyond reason... My point is that if Barrett HAD any talent he wouldn't have to rely on stringing up teams and players. Saying things like he does so regularly is last-resort garbage. If he was good at his job he would be able to get his name out there without compromising the truth or peoples' daily lives. There is hope however. SEN does great work. The Ox is always respectful and knows when to draw the line. I hate Mark Robinson, but I think most of the time he uses reason to the advantage of football. SEN is good, but it's clear why. Sport, (and the individuals therein) is the spring from which their jobs and income flows. Bite the hand that feeds you and SEN would fold quicker than people think. But I digress. The problem with Barrett is he is a second-rate journo trying to keep up with the big names. He is jostling for position, has a quota of articles he has to write, and it's impossible to write anything interesting about teams from 3rd to 13th. But it's open season on 1st, 2nd, 14th, 15th and 16th. If you think the reason that article was written was "the opinion business" then you're sadly mistaken. No-one cares about his opinion, he says himself he knows little about football. He's writing stuff, with sensationalist headlines, because he knows that's what will be read. He's writing to keep himself in suit-jackets and BMWs. NOT to report on the game, and not to help the world of football as it exists. Hiding behind the "opinion" excuse is what keeps these little amoebas from being held accountable.

Really? There is more to being a good AFL player than running into the biggest guy on the ground trying to get your hands to it first. I didn't say the guy couldn't ruck. But I'd rather a guy who can break even in the ruck department while threatening to get 20+ possessions. Opposition coaches (up until Sunday) must love seeing Jamar's name on the sheet. They know that possession-wise they're playing against 21 and a bit players. And matching him up around the ground is easy as pie. You don't have to worry about your defender betting run into the ground... Besides, just winning the taps isn't everything. Usually he wins a lot of taps but doesn't necessarily give his mids first use. White was like this. He gets 20 taps a match, some come off, some don't... but he'll add to it with at least 15 possessions, sometimes closer to thirty. This is turning into a Jamar bashing post. Not my intention, and thoroughly undeserved after Sunday. Look, if he plays like that 75% of the time from now on, then he has to be looked at for next year. But if he returns to ineffective footy, then my opinion of him will return to what it was before the Freo game. Simple.

Are you serious? I'm not even going to dignify that...

Damien Barrett = Worst Sports Journo of the past decade... Damien you snide, weasley, parasitic little [censored]... Look at Carlton from about 2002 onwards... Ditto Tigers... The demons just made the second greatest half-time comeback. Even against Freo, the WORST SIDE IN THE LAST DECADE wouldn't be able to do that. How do you take yourself seriously? People are getting wise to the garbage that spills forth from the pens of hacks like you. When are you peanuts going to learn that sensationalist journalism HURTS FOOTBALL!!!!! You are pea-brained enough to think it's actually benefitting you, when it actually just further confirms the facts that every toothless football fan who can read your tripe ALREADY KNOWS... You are completely devoid of talent. Go away. Just go away, please. For everyone's sake.

Oh dear. Listening to Grybas and Commetti IS football, god rest his soul. Bruce is awful. Simply awful. Unimaginative, repetitive, and about as humorous as an abortion. He used to be the main man before ch 9 had control, but football commentary went through a renaissance in those years with Commetti redefining the job, and spawning the Grybas' of this world. The sooner he bows out of commentary in the AFL, the better. Oh. And someone please knife Healy. Get him orrrrf. Too positive? or too speeeeeecial? Jamar has played one good game. Count it. One. Sandilands played a blinder two weeks ago, but is famous for being hot and cold. I'm surprised and pleased for Mark that he beat him on the day and had his first effect on a game in a long time. But my goodness does he have a long way to go still. It's not even about how god he was, it's about how god he CAN be... and 9 possessions? I just worry... Compare Jamar's game with any one of about 3 or 4 of PJ's this year and you have your answer.

Basically. 4 wins, tiges and blues (and preferably everyone else) to win more games. I usually like the idea of NOT winning a spoon, but given the soon-to-be future, we're going to need the priorities...

Are we forgetting something? You'll always be the guy that rates Bruce as a hack and calls for him to be dropped after he gets 31 possessions, ten of them in the last quarter of the second greatest comeback of all time... Glass house?

That IS fantastic news... but I don't think he'll get a game straight away. Maybe 3 weeks at Sandy to get match fitness at least. Add to that the fact that at least for the Adelaide game there's a queue of about 6 players who need to be put in the side... and the perennial in-and-out guys ALL had games that deserve retention. I'm thinking Garland, Warnock, Jamar etc etc. They did enough to keep their spots, so it'll be a short wait for Grimes to come in. Still. GREAT news that... Looking for Grimes, Morton and Wonna (maybe Maric if he stars) to get the nominations.

Now. Speaking of the odds... Looking at those odds, I'd say Wonna is possibly in second place behind Rioli as a chance to win it. Palmer is good, but faded on Sunday, and I doubt he'll be able to keep up that kind of dash for 22 rounds, which he'd need to do to win it. Rioli is a prodigious talent and is a fraction ahead of Davey. Other than that, I'm not sure the others are banging the door down. Brown is ok for the Pies, but is a defender. Kreuzer is going to be up against it. Cotchin isn't playing yet. Masten hasn't starred as much as Wonna yet. Unless I'm mistaken, I put Wonna in second place at this stage. Davey was in a similar place in 2004, and but for a hammy would have won it...

Are you being funny? There's nothing else funny in your post to suggest it's comedy based. Bruce 'aint getting dropped. How good would it be to see Bruce win the B&F this year, or a norm smith or something. Just so we could bring it up again and again to discredit you once and for all. Whelan is straight in. No doubt. Sylvia's form pre-injury was sensational. If he's right bring him in. I want Dunn, Buckley and PJ, but there were only a couple of players on Sunday that struggled. Even Jamar earned the right to stay in. The problem is, one or all of Jamar, Garland or Warnock could conceivably crash and burn a little bit n the next match. I've seen nothing from Jamar for years now, and I think we ma pay for it by leaving him in the side. So... Out: Bartram (just not his best work. Does't deserve it, but who else?), Bell (Not AWFUL, but not great either. Not in his best form, needs to find something)... and MAYBE Morton. He's been just ok, but not scintillating in the last couple of weeks. He may be in need of a rest a la Rivers back when he was a kid? In: Whelan and Sylvia... both to the backline. Sylvia switching forward when needed. And Morton's replacement? One of Dunn or Buckley... probably Buckley. How did we come to this? With that side we have Dunn, Bell, PJ, Buckley an Bartram all deserving a game but we can't fit them in!! Add to that Newton, Holland and Maric that are not too far off... CJ, Martin and Meesen you would think would play games again this year. Particularly CJ who is on his last chance. An embarrassment of riches down at demonland...

I can honestly say I never had any plans to leave. I always had a feeling that we'd see some interesting things... I like watching a few good little plays in between all the garbage. The Roos game last year was a good example. Newton mark, worth the price of admission. I have, in the past, left before the end of the match because I wanted to beat the traffic. The whole "stay 'til the end" thing is a bit infantile if you pick on other for leaving before the end to beat the crush. But I had no plans to on Sunday. Which is weird. We were bad enough in the first half to warrant a few people leaving.

I was sitting in line with the posts in the pocket, and it was closer to being touched on the line than the one from a couple of weeks ago, but was still well over. The graph above makes an interesting point... But I still think it was far enough back. We've seen shots called goals that were closer to the line than that. It was a pretty damn good kick. He loves those, but jeez... pressure seems to be his friend when shooting for goal.

Yeah. PSD for mine. Looks like a developed Garland... I must admit I thought the same thing Graz. I didn't consider Tarrant or Solomon, but I do reckon sharing a forward line with Palich would make life VERY hard. On those few instances where you got to it instead of him, if you screw up, people blame you for leading into Pavlich's forward line. Which runs roughly from the goal-line to the CHB. You also have to deal with Farmer's huge scone which is a hard thing to see around at the best of times. But aside from my passive aggressive little remarks, I am curious about what happened to him. Could be worth a look. How old is he?

Not too bad Joeboy: You were kind with some, but more-or-less right on. Bell didn't have a great day, but he battled manfully I thought. Farmer's a pretty good player and at least one of his goals wasn't Daniel's fault. I don't know that there's much you could say in a positive way about his game, but then if you can find positives about Jamar, Rivers, and Jones you could find something to say about Belly. Don't get me wrong. Rivers' game was probably the best 4 possession game I've ever seen. Jamar had nothing in the stats column but somehow exerted himself. And Jones was just tagged out by a more mature player. I have nothing against any of them based on yesterday alone... I just reckon Bely cops it unnecessarily sometimes. I reckon, given the form of Garland and Warnock, Bell will probably be the one to make way fro Wrecker. And that's fair enough. There were only a couple of bad games from the demons yesterday.

OOOOH. I love talking about this with other fans... It's kind of embarrassing to say that our classic games aren't premierships, and that probably our highest place finish (except 2000) was a game we limped over the line in. All the same... 1: St Kilda vs Melbourne Elimination final, 2006: Gehrig getting hurt by the demons hard-man. Brock's arrival as a player. Neitz a small bag, Davey's comeback, Riv asserting himself. Fast finish and comeback scoreline. The reason we go to the footy. My first winning final as a spectator. Will be number one for a while yet. 2: Geelong vs Melbourne, rd 20 2005: Stirring win, the catalyst for a finals berth. Started a run of 3 close ones. First win down there in nearly 20 years. A good team playing well. Pity about 3 weeks later. 3: Fremantle vs Melbourne, rd 7 2008: All the factors. Finiching with a kick on the ground after. The WAY we won, not limping over the line. The "I was there when" factor of the best MFC comeback. The inescapable fact that truly terrible sides can't do what they did at this level, even against a side like Freo away from home. We may not be much, but we're better than I thought. Fans turned up making a mockery of the media. The passion of a club united even in the face of dire circumstances. As close to magic as you ever see in Australian Rules football. Truly classic day. The only negatives were the truly woeful opposition, and the fact that it's only one win among a raft of losses. 4: Sydney vs Melbourne, rd 4 2006: SCG, Bruce kicks the sealer right over my scone. First time at the ground. Surrounded by Swans fans. Awesome feeling. Followed with 5 more wins and the dees were on the way. Gutsy win with injuries. GF's first experience of footy. Never been prouder, til yesterday. 5: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne, rd 21 2005: Two weeks of come-from-behind victories. There's something great about following a side that runs games out like the dees did that year. You do lose games, but you don't lose the way Freo did yesterday. Winning like that two weeks in a row made you believe we were made of stern stuff. A false dawn... but still... GREAT feeling on the day. The Carlton comeback in 2000, as well as the Roos game would be in there but I wasn't around then. No first-hand experience. The dons game, in round 22, 2005 would have been in there. We just didn't play that well. Only scraped in. Collingwood Monday matches X 2 have been good. And the Blues 100+ thrashing was ok. Genius. I'll just step out now to have a look...

Have I misunderstood? Did you not go to the game yesterday Y_M?

Thought Bell did ok. One of Farmer's goals was because of a different player's mistake. Another was because of Bell... But matching him on the lead I think he broke even at least. I look at Framer now and I don't see an ex-demon. I see a Woewodin-like trade that worked out well for us. Farmer didn't win them a flag, and while he drilled us a couple of times (the worst in 2002) he didn't cost us THAT much. Freo love him, and that's fine. Probably worked out well for everyone.

One last thing I forgot to mention, Davey's Sugar Daddy... Bate does have faults. But so do other players. Franklin was overlooked by HIS OWN CLUB at pick 2, because of perceived weaknesses such as lack of overhead marking, mental weakness etc etc. Now look at him. His strengths so completely over-ride his weaknesses that they're almost impossible to see now. He's so quick and so accurate... so superb below his knees and so athletic that nothing else matters in his game... If you're going to judge players only on their weaknesses then you take Judd at pick 3 because he had bad shoulders and wasn't the best kick going around. Likewise you give someone like Newton a go because he is the complete KP forward. Good kick, huge leap, sticky hands, loves it rough, runs a long way, is quick, works hard off the ball, loves a big hit and or tackle, has learned defensive pressure, knows where and how to lead, loves a snap, is pretty good below his knees... He's got the lot. So why is he not playing well? He hasn't got Bate's "weaknesses." So why is Bate rated higher, and more importantly why has Bate done so much better at the top level in exactly the same amount of time? In just his 3rd and 4th years with the club his kick alone was winning matches. He wasn't just doing it periodically, he was monstering sides with it. Give him a couple more years and other clubs will be standing in line to trade for him. You watch.

Crap. Mother's day.

Ok. Who edited my Sampi thread. Wasn't the same as this one and the post was made irrelevant without the title. Fair go. Anyway. Wonna >>>>>>> Sampi