Dappa Dan

Think back, if you can, to a time when you were paying in a side, in just about ANY team sport, and you'll realise you learnt the most, in the shortest amount of time when you were easybeats. The one fantastic factor bout this year is that Frawley couldn't ask for a better learning experience than the one he's having. He's in his second year, and due to our problems, has to stand toe-to-toe with the best or second-best forwards in the game. Our FF, CHF, and pockets may not be getting fast-tracked the way we'd like, but our most dire need has for a long time been a KP defender, and it's here we're getting the most improvement in the shortest time... As far as defensive leaders go, you can see him in the leadership group in a few years, and staying there... not the face of the club, and not dominating necessarily, but being our solid tall player in the side. Go Chip...

Yes... but given our situation it would make sense to go the Hawthorn route... Strong draft, so if we can get as MANY picks as possible in the first 20-25... You may be right that there will be duds... possibly more than half of them will be, but your odds are still improved. Just think. We have Morton, Maric and Grimes in the first 21 from last year. Grimes is hurt, Maric looks like he has the skills to make it, and Morton has showed enough to keep him in the 22 for the rest of the year. Yes, we may end up with a 426 type situation again, but the important thing is we're having a go at it. Hawthorn turned every one of those 5 of that draft into players. We HAVE to back ourselves in to do the same, even if we don't pull it off.

In that case it goes in order... Let's say that in 2008 we won 2 games and West Coast won 3... And we came 16th and 15th respectively... (this is also assuming that everyone else, including the Tigers and Blues, won more than 4...) The draft would go: (First Round) #1: MFC #2: WC ...... (Priority) #17: MFC #18: WC (second Round) #19 MFC #20: WC... Then in 2009 let's say we won 3 games and WC won 2, (and again, no-one else won less than five) the draft would go... (Priority) #1: WC #2: MFC (First Round) #3: WC #4: MFC....... (Second Round)#19: WC #20: MFC Make sense? Our best case scenario FROM A DRAFTING PERSPECTIVE is to have the Blues and Tigers win more than 4 this year and no-one else win less than 5. Then next year we win less than 5 again. That way we'll get picks one and two. The only thing is that in that time the chances that no other club will winless than five is slim. Also... this is all pending the changes being put in place for the new clubs. The AFL hasn't suggested how it will effect priority picks, only how the rounds are arranged...

I have been saying this for a couple of years now... By the time we recruit 4 KP players, plus 3-4 rotation players, and by the time they are blooded, it will be at LEAST 5 years from now. Probably more given our KP player record. By which time McLean will be approaching 30. I heard an interview by Jason Dunstall where he owned up to the Hawks recruiting method. They had identified that in the couple of years before the Roughead/Franklin year and the couple of years following the same year there weren't any really genuine KP prospects. They knew if they could take them both they would have a monopoly on good KP players around the right age come late 2000s... That's exactly what has happened... The demons, in return, took Bate who is ok, Dunn who is yet to do anything, and Newton who is as much a chance of being delisted as taking his place at FF... By the time we work this problem out, we will have to recruit a bunch of new McLeans, Moloneys, Sylvias.... There is one thing though. CAC always said he'd take the best available at the early end of the draft. That means most of the time that you end up with a few surplus quality midfielders or small forwards/defenders... which you then trade in groups for talented ruckmen/KP players... Our problem? without a team of big lads around them, our mids look like terrible kicks, and their value is greatly diminished, making a trade work in the oppositions favour. There is a LOT of hard work ahead.

Yep. This is one of the more sensible threads going around. I don't have much more to add other than to echo the question that's materialising rapidly... Te gameplan... ditch plan A, go to plan B? play to the team's strengths? How much longer can the team, club and individuals both on the field and off handle this kind of embarrassment while DB is educating his players? Neale said all along his job was to win games of footy. He did that half the time, but didn't get us near a flag. DB's model is going to be painful. VERY painful for some time yet, and the question is whether or not the MFC structure can handle it in the current environment. I must admit today I was thinking it was time to change things. But when I cool off I think sometimes we're at the bottom of a very long ladder, but at least we're climbing it in an effort to reach the TOP, not the middle.

I've been thinking this all year, looking at the Cats and Freo stampede across the longest ground around... I don't like people reacting the Bohdan's bad press, and the injuries seem to have diminished... But the proof is in the pudding. If they seem unfit, or unable to handle the physical pressure, then Bohdan's doing something wrong. They seem ok when the game winds down, running with more freshness last week and the week before than their opponents... but it's the previous 3 quarters I'm worried about...

3/4 time.... I just tuned in and the first thing I've read is how unbelievably bad we are... which I could have guessed of course. But looking at the live stats, no-one has mentioned some pretty surprising factors: - Green. Bruce, Moloney, White, Bell and Wheatley have all got possessions in the mid twenties. Are we over-using it? - Jones. 4 goals? Is that not kind of a stunning game of footy from him? Who's he on? Johnstone? - Speaking of Trav. Has he been accrate? Cos his stats are modest. - Wonna. 3 goals. Miller and Robbo pretty much had doughnuts up until the end of the third. - Bartram's a tagger and has been busy. Or busier than usual. What's the story there?

Yeah, but I thought everyone knew this.

Ok... So was your response agreeing with me? My point was that there's been a lot of crap written on 'land about how bad we are. I was just showing a few examples of the nonsense written here...

Yep... There has been far more than usual twittery on the 'land boards this year. Actually, 'ology has looked MUCH more sensible. Some of the corkers: - McLean is crap and has gotten as good as he'll get. - Neitz is rubbish and doesn;t deserve to play another game. - Green isn't doing enough. - Carroll needs to be dropped. - Robbo, Whelan and White are in their last years... Unbelievable.

Yep. I saw that too. Was in he last 2 minutes of the game.

Valenti got BOG... Doing an interview. Asked him about getting promoted and he blew it off saying that Bailey said it's a week by week thing... I was impressed by some of the younger kids, mostly the demon-listed players. Spencer looks like a player... I always like Neaves, but Spencer seems to move a bit better, and knows where to place himself in a pack. A little concerned about guys like Bate. Given a bit more time he should get back to his best, but he needs his pace and endurance. They're some o his most important weapons.

Since when? We get 16 or less premiership points we get a pick AFTER the first round. Where do you get your information?

I don't understand why people are THAT excited about Naitanui... Yes he's got that leap, but so does White... And who expects him to be a Franklin-like forward? The guy doesn't know how to kick properly yet, and a vertical leap doesn't mean squat when it comes to REAL football. I'm backing Rich to have the better career, though I'll understand if we take Naitanui only because we need a Leuenberger/Kreuzer type early ruck pick...

Best post yet Y_M... We should go for 5 picks in the first 20 if we can, but EVERYONE will be doing that and we don't have anything to trade to get picks like that in a good draft. There's only a handful on the lis that would even be close to being that attractive to other clubs... Jones and McLean... Rivers and Bate maybe... Davey if he lifts... Petterd could give the first round a shake.... Bell would be good for a second rounder at his best. After that we have players that would be afterthoughts, or sweeteners at best... It never ceases to amaze me how people propose the trading of players like CJ and Jamar, who has less than no value...

I like Petterd... Actually, I REALLY like Petterd and see him as an important part of our future. But you're absolutely right. Petterd would probably go too, and who could blame him?

Absolutely. Can't believe that people think he's done.

Rich get Richer? I was referring to the AFL. But also that conveniently the club that looks most likely to be rebuilding during that time will not benefit the same as Carlton (2002-2007), Hawthorn (2003-2006), Ninthmond (Ohhh... since I've been alive)... And top picks don't guarantee success... but it makes it easier. What do you suggest, we deliberately take later picks every year? Maybe we should recruit a good recruiter... Yep. As I said, not ironclad... And I'm the LAST to take anything from Hutchy seriously... But I was waiting for what the AFL were going to say about these drafts, and even if it's HALF as severe as this, we'll still be worse off than I thought we would be. I was hoping for, at worst a one-for-you-one-for-me type arrangement... ie, established teams go in order through the odd picks, and the new clubs go in order through the evens... No and no for mine... Yes we'll get the last pick #1, but that's only assuming we come last and Blues and Tigers don't get their priority pick. And even then we get only #1, #17 and #18. Hardly cleaning up are we? And with a reasonable expectation of a modicum of improvement we should have a crack at winning maybe 2 games next year. Right now we only have a handful of injuries and are so far off it it's not funny... If you think we're going to be anything higher than 13th-16th for at least this year and next you've got a rude shock coming... And God knows what's going to happen to us after that. We will. We always do. We'll end up lucking out some success from recruiting rookies, and having a team full of Jmacs and Robbos... But will be back to meiocrity AT BEST!!! The point here is... For the last 10-15 years we have been middle of the road. One Grand Final, one wooden spoon, and probably more than our fair share of finals series in which we underperformed. In that time we had one big recruiting drive back when recruiting drives existed, that netted us Neitz and Schwarta during the time of Lyon and co... Since then we've limped and limped through nothingness... The one big silver lining on this dark, black cloud we have hanging over us at the moment is that with the young ball-winners we have, we can recruit some big names with 3 years worth of bottoming out. We can do what the Hawks, Blues and Lions of this world have done, and all we need to do is survive during that time, as we will finally have the picks we need to launch properly and shake the foundations of the AFL, like the Hawks are now with a list chock full of substance, solidity and out-and-out stars the likes of Franklin, Hodge etc etc... If the Blues and Pies were looking at rebuilding over the next 4 years do you think they'd be bringing the teams in? Eddie would be up in arms and the great unwashed would be rioting in the streets. They know the demons will offer little resistance... So now's the time. And hey, maybe if we go badly enough we'll be forced to relocate and they will finally have less than 10 teams in Victoria. So what do we do? I reckon we just pull out the stops. I was all for keeping Green, Bruce, White, Robbo etc etc at the end of the year, because we DO need SOME kind of seniority in the list... But as it is ANYTHING of value we have on the list has to be offloaded... I mean even the Bells and Bartrams who have value... JUST so we can flood this draft with demons selections... The Hawks, back, I think, in the Franklin year had 5 picks in the first 21. Yes, some of them are going to be disappointing, or duds... but we will have something tangible to get behind, and most importantly those kids will grow up together, just like Geelong's kids did. The problem? The other clubs will be doing the same thing... They know that drafting strongly through 2009-2012 will be hard, so they may trade heavily too.... Only they will have players that other clubs want. We have only a few, like Brock and Jones... and we need to keep them. Am I making any sense? I fear I may not be.

Footy Show Leaked Document to Hutchy... Only planned at this stage, not ironclad... It's WAY too complicated to just repeat off the tele... But this year 15 QLD kids opt out of the draft. The next year 15 kids out of the national draft, as well as the top 5 rookies... And after that, it gets worse... For three years the top 5 will go to either Gold Coast or Western Sydney whatevers... How does this relate to us? IF we get the top pick this year and win less than 5 games... ie If the Toigs and Poos win more than 4 games each, We will get Pick one, and after that get picks 17 and 18... But after that, if we go badly for a couple, maybe a few years, let's say we get priority picks in that time, instead of getting 1 and 2... or 1 and 4 or whatever... we will have to wait for the other clubs to nick the best talent in the land... again... And that's under the current system... What a crock. The AFL: The rich get richer... Watch this space...

Holy crap. Someone change the title of the thread...

Bate is the only must have in the extended bench. Maybe Jamar considering our ruck problems... Moloney would be next in line, though busy he had discipline problems. Not a definite... Dunn may benefit from both Miller and Bate being in. So I'd like him retained... Would love to see Buckley get another game, and Garland was apparently BOG so either could get in... But Warnock... Well, he may get the gig given our worrying KP defender problem, but it will be a waste of time...

I've heard some pretty big talk about Rich. The people concerned talk about him as much as anyone I can remember.

Wouldn't take Feva, wouldn't take Cousins... Unless Feva came for free in the PS draft. The amount we'd have to give up for Feva wouldn't be worth it. Lets say they asked for our priority pick... say pick 17 or thereabouts... In a strong draft year, why would we do that? He only has a handful of years left... and in 4 or so he'll be in exactly the same position as Neitz, only minus the years of loyal service. And what are the chances he will return to his peanut ways? The chances are good. As for Cousins... That's a maybe. Only because of his training methods. And like I said, either we have a youth policy or we don't.

I don't know why people keep saying Robbo and Whelan are retiring at years end... They're 28!!! Both could conceivably play for another 3 years. Maybe longer for Robbo.

Has anyone else said how it will be nice now NOT to have people whinging about how he's singing while playing bad footy? At least there is that. He had a confidence builder on the weekend, and now has nothing distracting him.