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I agree it is pretty early to be considering this stuff, but the purpose of it is to identify those players who will be playing for their careers this season, and keeping a closer eye on them, and the opportunities they get to prove themselves. And it doesn't have to be six spots. It could be less. I just assumed the way we've drafted aggressively in the past, that this would continue and we would chose to use 6 picks. However you may be right, and we could use 5 or maybe only 4 selections, as this is the first comprimised draft, due to the draft age being increased by 4 months. So there are only 2/3rds the amount of players eligible this year compared to previous years. I'm not saying I don't think we'll trade, or that we shouldn't trade. It was just an assumption I made purely for the exercise, to make it simpler... Once you start talking about including trading, well then who do we trade? What picks/players do we get for them? It's all so speculative at this time of year that it just makes it a whole lot more complicated.

My flatmate came home with a souvenir publication from the ANZAC day match... reading through it makes me want to vomit... here are some highlights, or lowlights, whatever you prefer... The Title: Forward from Andrew Demetriou: What Anzac Day Means to Me: Kevin Sheedy but apart from all that, the biggest issue I have is the magazine itself... The football match is being blown up to be bigger than the actual day itself... And that't the thing that bothers me most...

You've completely missed the point of this thread. It's not about who should play on ANZAC day. The fact that you're talking about football when this thread is about respecting the traditions of ANZAC day personifies the problem here perfectly.

I dislike Essendon more than Collingwood to be honest. Can't stand their arrogance. And I live with one, so I really wish Collingwood had won...

Would be good if someone in the AFL media had the cahonies to right a similar article. The problem is, the media is the most responsible for what it all has become, they make money off it, they're not going to shoot it down. Need someone like Aker to come out in his article to put something like this forward.

That's not what is being said here, I think they just need to pull things back a few notches. When you hear the last post, it's a time to stand, sit, or listen in silence, whereever you are, at the ground, watching on television etc. If I watch 5 games of footy this weekend, when I hear it the 5th time I'm not going to be paying it the same attention that I did the first time. I'm not paying the last post the attention it deserves. No one would hearing it for the 5th time, it's human nature. The fact that it's being flogged everywhere, left right and centre, takes away from the significance of the entire thing. ANZAC day isn't about ceremonies, it's about remembering, and that's been a point that has been lost. Just on a side note, I was at the dawn service today, and I couldn't believe there were grubs wearing Collingwood and Essendon gear there. Today is not about football!

My apologies on Matty Collins, he was delisted after 2001. However I'm friends with his sister, and I can tell you it wasn't a contract dispute, it was a sacking. Was told he was being delisted a week before his wedding. And I'm sure Robbo's contract expires at the end of this season. At the end of 2007 he was considering going to the Bulldogs because they were willing to offer him a 3 year contract, but we were only willing to offer two. After some soul searching he decided to remain a loyal demon, and take the 2 year contract which will expire at the end of this season. If he shows good form for the rest of the year, but still doesn't make the cut at Melbourne, could he still be picked up by a Geelong or Western Bulldogs at 31 years old? Probably should've included PJ and Jamar in the list, the fact is though you still need 3-4 ruckman on your list, so even if we elevate Spencer, I can't see any of the ruckman losing their spot. Agree on McNamara, if he doesn't threaten for senior selection toward the end of the season, then I think he could be headed for the rookie list. I can't see the club cutting him all together. I should've included him on the first list. However given he's contracted till next year, he's safe. The club signed him mid last year for an extra 2 seasons, they wouldn't have done that if they weren't willing to give him the time to develop.

I'm not starting this thread so people can come in and call for our players to be delisted at years end, but rather to identify which players on our list really need to offer something this year on the field, in order to secure the future of their careers, so we can keep an extra eye on them and track teir progress. I think we're at a really interesting time with our list, and it will be very interesting come years end to see who stays and who goes. Firstly lets identify how many spots need to be freed up on our list... I'm going to assume that we qualify for a priority draft pick, and we finish on the bottom... I don't think the latter will happen, and possibly the former either, but for simplicitys sake I'm just going to make that assumption... I'm also going to assume that we won't make any trades come trade week... Therefore we have selections: 1, 2, 18, 34, 50, PSD 1. (I'll assume we won't use picks 66 or 80) That means we'll need to free up six spots on the list for these draft picks. In my opinion players who I would consider to retire or be delisted are: Junior - 2009 Robbo - 2009 Bruce - 2010 Whelan - 2009 Wheatley - ?? Bell - 2009 Dunn - ?? Bartram - ?? Cheney - 2009 McNamara - 2009 Bate - 2010 Buckley The years are when their current contracts expire. Removing those we know are contracted beyond this season we're left with. Junior Robbo Whelan Wheatley Bell Bartram Dunn Buckley Cheney McNamara There are some controvertial names on that list, I know. And don't have a go at me saying he or she shouldn't be on the list. All I've done is go over our squad and find every possible player I could imagine getting delisted at the end of the year. There are a number of players who I think don't belong there, but the fact is we're going to have to drop 5 players off the list minimum, most likely 6. And I think that 5 or 6 will come from the above 10, and that's without any rookie promotions onto the senior list. It's going to be a hard time for the coaching staff come October. Some comments from me on some of these players: Junior / Robbo - both great players for the MFC. Both good enough to continue playing on, but age is not on their side. Would love to see them play on, but we may well see them exit gracefully at seasons end. Wheatley - had a pretty good season last year, but injury setbacks this year will cost him. Needs to get back for Melbourne and play some great footy in the latter half of the year. Whelan - Wheels is one of my favourite players, but the youth are taking over down back. He along with Wheatley are the last remaining players for Daniher's backline. Currently trying to get fitness at Casey Reserves, I really hope Wheels can get back for Melbourne and return to the form he's shown us in the past. Would be great to see him play 10 games, and notch his 150th game this year. Bell - massive year for Daniel, his career is on the line no doubt. Just about to return from a broken thumb, he really needs to force his way into the red and blue and give the coaching staff a reason to keep him on the list. I hope he's given every opportunity to do this, but he's really going to have to lift. Dunn/Buckley - both turn 22 this year, and both still on the fringe of the side. Both have shown potential, but are getting to the stage of their careers where they should be cementing their spot in the 22. Both should be safe this season, but better players have lost their spots on AFL lists. Bartram - to be honest, I can't see this happening, but stranger things have happened. Tries his guts out, but many question whether he has the skills required at the top level. Will keep going about his business, but he's the type of player who could become a shock announcement come October. I remember a man with a famous indian tattoo Matty Collins, who was one of our better players in the 2000 grand final (from memory, correct me if I'm wrong) being delisted only a couple of weeks later. Simon Godfrey another one who played a lot of football in his final year before being delisted. Cheney / McNamara - very doubtful, but not impossible. Would be extremely harsh on McNamara who was drafted quite young, and Cheney who has shown something for Melbourne this year. I have bigger question marks over Cheney to be honest, I'm not sure if he has the game to succeed at the top level. I've heard some great things about McNamara, but is obviously going to take time. Both players just need to show improvement in their own games throughout the year and they will ensure their spots for next year. If either of these two go, they would possibly be redrafted or rookied. Lets hope all the players mentioned have really good seasons, and make it a difficult job for the coaching staff.

You're spot on there. The media circus around football and ANZAC day is just over the top. I mean, how can a footballer win the ANZAC medal? It's a disgrace... As for a Melbourne V Sydney game at Canberra, I think that's a great idea. Although they'll never put another game up against Collingwood V Essendon, and there will never be a night game at Canberra, so I can't see it happening on ANZAC day...

Spencer has already been elevated... how do you think he played the first 2 games? then he got dropped because he didn't do a great job... Meesen and Johnson are better options right now, and when Russian is fit, he'll go back to the rookie list... As for Valents, you elevate him if you're going to play him... Can't see him getting a game to be honest, especially with the players who are due to return from injury over the coming weeks, there's going to be a pretty long line to get into the Melbourne side...

I wouldn't read too much into it... I doubt they wanted a ruckman who can't play any other position as one of the listed emergencies, if one of our KPP doesn't come up, Spencer isn't really bringing alot to the table... Hence they name Robbo...

Look closer, the Casey Reserves... good to see some players back in Bail and Buckley and most of all Aussie! glad Wheels got over his corkie too... B Taylor Zomer Bail HB McLeod Williams Whelan C Collins Chivers Scanlon HF Creed Mohr Bolton F Virtue Waite Watts R Patti Healey Buckley Int Mazurek Clay Illman Schrape Lees Sykes Costigan Oldmeadow Snow Mildren Crespin Blaser

given the extended bench that was named, I think that's how it will play out... Really want to see Maric play, but unfortunately it won't be this week...

the only way we'd get him is to offer up a lot, and we're never going to do that... if he's sitting there in the PSD you'd take him, but that's it... Would we be willing to give up perhaps the next Pavlich for 10 years, to have the current one for four when we're not at our prime? I think not... He'll go to a club who struggle down forward a little but are close to a flag, like a Geelong or Western Bulldogs...

i'm glad the club are paying the day the respect that it deserves, in the right context... I really get annoyed with the way football is treated on Anzac day now... the Anzac medal for instance, what has any footballer ever done to earn an "ANZAC" medal? surely you're not deserving of an ANZAC medal after playing a good game of footy, where you played some hard contests "in the spirit of the ANZACS"... it's bull****... the commetators go on about playing in the spirit of the ANZAC's etc... you can't even compare the two... Do Collingwood and Essendon have snipers shooting at them while they're playing footy on the MCG? I think not... I'm going to feel sick in the stomach everytime a commentator asks a Collingwood or Essendon player what it's like to play on ANZAC day... Fine to have footy on ANZAC day, but to be honest, a lot of people almost treat it like the footy is bigger than what the day is truly for, and that's wrong...

I look at it this way for the MFC... Carlton traded Pick 3, Pick 20 and Josh Kennedy for Pick 46 and Judd... If he wanted to come to Melbourne we would've had to have traded Pick 4, Pick 21 and Trav Johnstone for Judd and pick 46... Essentially we would've lost Morton, Grimes, Maric, and got Judd and Armfield (or whoever else we took @ 46)... Would we be happy with that now, given where we are at?

Couldn't agree more, but that doesn't mean we just keep playing the same players every week. I agree that Bate shouldn't be dropped, it wasn't that long ago that he's been our best target down forward, and kicked multiple goals... He had a bad game, but he's allowed that as a forward. However on Bartram, it's not like he's not been given opportunity... Given the weakness of our list, he's always played when he's been fit. However long term, I can't see him being in our best side... He was on the fringe this week, being named in the extended bench, with Junior back this week, I think it's time for him to go down to the 2's... Let him play in the guts, just win the footy and not worry about tagging anyone, and let him work on the offensive side of his game... Bail didn't play for Casey at all this week, so there's no possible way he'll come in. If junior doesn't come up then either Bartram will keep his spot, or Cheney will play.

Cheney or Grimes would come in if Warnock is out. While we'd need to have Warnock playing, we can cover his loss. Frawley just takes one of their bigger forwards, while Grimes / Cheney take the smaller forward... We'll still have 3 key defenders in Rivers, Martin, Frawley...

I still disagree with you, but that's an awesome line... gave me a good giggle...

These days though you can't afford to carry someone who is just a "tagger". They need to be able to use the ball and provide something on their own too... Junior has the ability to shut players down, so I think it's a like for like swap... As for Grimes, I'd like to see him in too. Think they'll give him another week at Casey after coming back from his injury...

You sound like you expect him to be the next Matthew Richardson... We know Juice definately has his limits, but he showed signs today he will become the player we hope he could be... All you've done is point out every little mistake he made today... Did you ever think perhaps with Juice holding down full forward it allowed Miller to get up the ground more, resulting in him playing a great game?

I've enjoyed the win thoroughly, but now it's Monday and time to look to next week, and discuss changes for our match against the Crows. Out: Green (inj.), Bartram In: Maric, McDonald Think these are pretty straight forward. Green is injured, and Bartram really didn't give us anything today. I thought he was our worst player. Our only other player who didn't have an impact was Bate, but he's got credits in the bank. Ins are obvious. Welcome back the skipper, and the best form player from Casey in Maric. These changes should fit in pretty well with team balance.

I think the most exciting aspect of his game for me was his contested marking, and how he read the ball in the air... These aspects of his game hadn't really been shown at AFL level... But he took some great marks running back with the flight, and 1 on 1 with his opponent...

both boys were great today... my only concern over Jetta is his kicking, he does shank quite a few, shanked one massively today... but he has all the other tools to make it... work on his kicking and he'll be an effective target... once Aussie is back it will be a real test for him to hold his spot in the side... I'm a massive Wheels fan, and hope he plays this season out well, but with Bennell showing us a lot so far, Grimes hopefully to show us a lot throughout the season, I think this will be Matty's last... I really hope he can get fit, back in the Red and Blue and finish out the season strong... he deserves nothing less... and a farewell against the Saints at the G in Round 22 playing alongside our other aboriginal players would be a fitting send off...

the latest is that he's obviously having surgery... Doc Larkins seemed to think he'd be out for at least 6-8 weeks... really great win from the boys today... we finally had a forward line, which was the big difference from past weeks... Juice looked dangerous, Miller gave us a great target, don't need to go on much more... still had that fadeout in periods, but when we were in control of the game we put the score on the board, unlike in previous weeks...