godees

i'd do it. draft picks are MASSIVELY overrated on here

trade

That looks like it refers to a traumatic/impact fracture - I'd imagine treatment and issues with a stress fracture will be different.

Port consider him their best player - he is no Robbo and he is definitely no Warnock.

Hawks won't be able to afford him surely..

Im right there with you Nasher - getting Burgoyne would be huge. He is a seriously good player. His brother has just retired at 31 (32 in jan) - which may suggest he has another 5 or so years in him and i would certainly hope we would be challenging for the flag within the next 5 years. I don't know much about this business with his knee but he has been pretty durable apart from this year (missed 3 games in 2008, played all games in 07 & 06), so with a proper medical assessment Im not too worried about injuries with him. These 'bone on bone' rumours im taking with a grain of salt. I'd give pick 18 in a heart beat. Port wouldn't take it but if he nominates us im sure we will be able to work something out. Something along the lines of pick 2 and 18 for pick 8 and Burgoyne might tempt them. And i know people will be saying "ahhh not pick 2!" but at pick 8 we are still going to have access to someone along the lines of Martin (who i wouldn't mind us getting at 2 anyway), Lucas, Cunnington, Talia, Rohan, stevens; in addition to adding a quality outside mid! On bigfooty the port supporters want a top 10 pick and good player so i don't think they will let him go easily and we could end up getting him PSD which would be a bonus. This is also one of the few situations i would consider using one of our key backs in a trade (although i'd still be reluctant) - a fit Burgoyne is a top player and you have to give up quality to get quality. I've been fighting against a gale in the last week or two arguing against trading players for picks i.e. stockpiling more picks, and now, shock horror!, some of us want to trade away draft picks! But we are building a premiership team to challenge within the next few years and beyond. We know what Burgoyne can produce (magic!), he is proven. We don't know what we are getting with draft picks. I say go, and go hard!

Quality not quantity

You've hit the nail on the head there! And I cannot understand people suggesting we trade Jamar - right now he is our ONLY AFL standard ruckman. No if buts maybes. Trading him would be incredibly stupid! Trade period is so frustrating. So so many stupid suggestions showing how little people know about the game. I think im going to stop reading trade threads and stick to the draft.

There is a HUGE difference between pick 1/2 and picks in the mid-teens. Stupid comparison

I am very much in the best available camp (which appears to be the 2 mids camp) and I had a thought (or maybe I read something on here that suggested a similar thing) yesterday that reinforced my view. Those from the Butcher camp seem to want him because he is the best tall forward on offer and our forward line is the area most in need of improvement. And it is certainly our greatest concern - Jurrah has shown he is something special, but we are yet to see if Watts, Maric, Wonna, Bate, Petterd etc are going to be good enough, individually and collectively. But we do have another player who has consistently shown himself to be a very effective forward....Green. And I put it that drafting Trengove and further shoring up our midfield could allow him to move forward, leaving us with a potentially very competent forwardline - Jurrah, Watts, Green, Bate, Wonna, Maric, Petterd, Morton/Sylvia, possibly Garland. We have enough good, or potentially good, options that we don't need to draft for need - and that applies across the ground (and is why im so opposed to trading players for more draft picks). We could use more ruck depth but otherwise IMO we are covered and should go for best available at 1 and 2, i.e. scully and trengove, and look to needs at 18 with whoever is available of Vardy/Panos/Carlisle/Griffiths etc.

Firstly we must remember that this draft is VERY SHALLOW (due to the concessions)!!!! Trading proven players for draft picks is a risky strategy - i don't understand why people are so keen to do it. In recent years, we traded Jolly for pick 15ish = Dunn, we traded Woey for a similar pick = Bell, and Johnstone for pick 14 = Grimes. So using this strategy in recent years we have had 1 success out of 3. So IMO to trade a proven best 18 player for a draft pick, you MUST get a very high pick (i.e. no worse than top 10) in return, even more so when it is a key defender (high value). We also did simmonds for craig ellis and pick 25ish which was steve armstrong. Rivers is a better player than Warnock and can play his position just as effectively, and he has the flexibility to play other roles even better. Warnock is a good player and is certainly best 18, but he is chronically overrated on here. I would trade him over Rivers every day of the week. We also have Martin who is a far better defender than forward and he would also be an option for fullback. I actually really like him down there. I rate our key defenders: Garland > Frawley > Rivers > Warnock, Martin It is a myth (bullpoo) that Rivers can only play as a loose man/3rd defender. He is not great on the lead but otherwise he will beat his man 9/10 times. He is so reliable, and has far better disposal and smarts than Warnock. And this talk of 2nd round picks - my god, not even close - that would be absolute stupidity (refer to previous examples)! Trading for the sake of trading - i really don't understand why there is such a push for it. WE HAVE ENOUGH DRAFT PICKS, we have stockpiled enough in the last few years and what we need to be worrying about now is developing them!!! The only trading i want us doing this year is getting fringe players to other clubs (for little gain) if anyone wants them and maybe holding the pre-season number 1 pick over a club's head to get a player on the cheap. That is it. Trading away proven players for anything less than a top 10 pick is stupidity, and even then I would be reluctant.

Agreed. It is such a high risk strategy. We know what we are going to get with Jamar and Rivers and that is good solid best 18 players in very important positions. We have absolutely no coverage for Jamar and it would be MADNESS to trade him! I would be furious as it would compromise everything we have done in the last couple of years. Rivers we can cover but it would be like trading away Woey and what a disaster that was (we got a nice first round pick who turned into a massive let down! and it tore the club apart). We have stockpiled enough picks - now we just need to develop what we have. Bag me all you want but i hope we do nothing in trade week (except maybe get new homes for our fringe players and maybe threaten preseason draft to get someone on the cheap)

Trading Jamar (unless he is uncontracted and demands it) would be stupidity. Also don't agree with trading Rivers

Amen to that! This season has been most unenjoyable and needs to finish! Plenty of good signs - grimes, jurrah, frawley etc etc, and a nice new set of draft picks - but i hate losing

Strongly disagree about Jamar, Moloney and Green

My my, how quickly people forget! Garland >>> Frawley ....and that is by no means a reflection on how i rate Frawley (who i am very pleased with). The only way this isn't true is if Garland isn't able to recover fully from his stress fractures. Oh, and Rivers > Warnock IMO. But it's all semantics...we have a really good set of tall defenders. Just need the rest of the team to catch up!

Twisted logic I hate it when people say this because it is absolute bull. Aaron Davey would be one of the first players selected in every club in the league. Bruce, Sylvia, Green, Rivers and Garland would all get a game at EVERY side (they just wouldn't have as crucial a role), and several more would get a game at every club except the saints. Plus every team would want grimes, morton, frawley, jurrah, morton, petterd, watts etc on their list. We have a lot of players who are developing and have shown very good signs, who it would be a disaster to lose = untouchable. And just because we on the bottom of the ladder, doesn't mean ALL of our players are rubbish, it just means we have more rubbish players, less good ones, and even fewer awesome ones.

Im with you there. IMO a prelim should be well within reach in 2011. Teams can go up very quickly

What about 2 weeks before when he single-handedly dragged us over the line against Geelong to end our 7? game losing streak and keep our finals chances alive. He was amazing in that game, even the geelong supporters around me were in awe (unbelievably didn't get 3 votes in brownlow - never has a player been more robbed of votes!) And wrecker...my all-time fave (...im in my early 20s). I knew this was coming but it's still really sad. Let's hope he can get fit for rounds 21 and 22 and they can chair him off in his 150th. Going to the footy isn't going to be the same without him

At his best he has been one of the most important players in the team Geddy Lee. He has had some very good years. Of course you are going to be ordinary if you can't get fit

Scully, Trengove and Panos or Griffths would make me very happy.

We are officially tanking. Good work DB

the bounce of the ball didn't help him. if it had gone straight or the other way he would have been off with the ball in hand.

up by 28 late in the last

he is right. here are the final ins/outs: In: Cheney, P. Johnson, Miller, Newton, Valenti, Whelan, McKenzie Out: Brock McLean (knee), Mark Jamar (quad), Brad Green (scaphoid), Jack Grimes (back), James Frawley (back), Neville Jetta (flu), Russell Robertson I laughed when i saw it. tank you very much