Vipercrunch

Given we had 8 changes last week out of nowhere, there is every chance there will be more unexpected changes this week. The "must plays" are Jordie, Cheney, Newton, Bennell, Jetta, and Valenti unless we need to give them more games with Casey to qualify for the VFL finals. Hughes and perhaps even Spencer and Buckley would be useful inclusions to continue giving young players experience.

I am not what you would call "pro-tank" as I am uneasy with draft position being the primary reason behind list management, selections etc. I would like my club to view early draft picks as a bonus rather than an objective, but I guess I might be niave. I understand the advantage early picks would give us, and would hate the early picks to go to clubs like WCE and Freo, who most pundits woulds say are less deserving of them than us. I found myself in the boat of wanting the players to well, but not caring if we won or not. There are certain players I would love to see step up and prove some people wrong, while like most, I enjoy watching the new players do well. I think deep down I was happy with a loss, although given that we lost, a big lost would have served our cause better than a narrow one. I am looking forward to hitting Round 22 still at 3 wins so we can all out against St Kilda without a care in the world. I think Priority Picks should be evaluated by a commitee as I think more needs to be considered than just simply Win/Loss records.

I am not sure that I want my young players putting their bodies at risk in insignificant contests in insignificant games. I want my players to be smart and know when to go hard and when to play the odds. What he did is a far cry from ducking under a high ball. If he took the ball head on, the absolute best result would have been yet another stoppage. If the ball bounced well, he had set himself up to take it away. No big deal.

I think there are limited spots on our list for the older players. These spots must go to the players that are physically up to it, whose forms warrants it (in the best 30 players in the club), but most importantly who provide the best leadership, attitude and work ethic. For those reason, I feel there is a very important place on our list into next year for MacDonald, Brock and Bruce. Whelan and Green also fall into that "good example to young players" catorgory. I also would have a very hard time finding a position for Robbo, who yes has been good (a matchwinner on occassions), but has not shown the sort of example I want our young players to develop. Brock needs to get fit. There have been talk that he hasn't done speed training for along time due to injury. Until he gets his speed up and his body right, he should be rested. List manage him. MacDonald is doing well enough to stay on the list next year, but probably not as Captain. If all goes well, and the younger players around him develop, he won't always be Top 22. Bruce is only on this list because it is YM's list. He is past his best, but I think has at least one more season in the Best 22. Robbo should get one or two more games as a decent send off, but there is no place for some of what he offers (or fails to offer).

Did we use our mid-year promotion?

HT - As I said earlier, I have no doubt Scully is something special. My issue with this whole debate is whether the size of the prize (Scully or any future elite, premiership winning footballer) is worth deliberately losing games. Carlton are frequently called cheats becuase many consider they tanked to get Judd and Kruezer.

HT - I've seen you ask that question alot, but I personally don't see why it is relevant. I have not seen him play live, but it is obvious you and many others have. He is obvioulsy very good, and will be a great assest to the club for a very long time, if we secure him. It seems the reason you ask is to justify resorting to any means to get him, which is where I and a few others disagree. I think we will get him, but not out of design. I don't think we are good enough to win 2 more games. On top of that, DB has said the goal this year is to develop players with an eye for the future. I hope by this he means he will be doing everything he can to get this current list closer to a successful period. I also hope DB and the club view Priority Picks and early draft position as a bonus for those that need it, not an objective. EDIT: What happens if we do all the list management, resting good players etc, etc and we still win 2 games? Giving that would be such a tragedy to so many here, who will you blame? The coach? The players? The "anti-tankers"?

Two questions. What will the reaction be if we win 5 games this year? Why do some people think it is a bigger embarassment to NOT tank?

Good Post Akum. Hopefully I am quick enough to get in before the usual suspects get to ya.

It's a bit off topic, but I'd like to add Sam Mitchell as a extrememly punchable head. Everytime I see his smart arse smirk, I want to reach into the TV and whack him.

Jack Watts hasn't played like someone who is at all concerned he won't make it in AFL. Players picked later in the draft need to prove to themselves and thier club from the very start that they are capable. Jack would have been told that he has nothing to prove, and is playing to gain experience. Nothing is being demanded of him. There will come a time when his coach and team will demand something from him, and that is when he will need to deliver.

Blaming any lack of future sucess on missing out on Scully/Tengrove/etc is a very, very simple way to look at things.

People are excited because there is a very unique story behind a player that also has great potential. Really looking forward to seeing him in the bigtime. The story is only beginning....

I was calling for Sylvia to be dropped about 6 weeks ago, but since then enough has happened for me to think that he does have a real opportunity to be a vital and important part of MFC for the next 5+ years. The vast improvement in his form is the obvious one, but for me the honesty and commitment to improve all parts of his football and personal life that he showed in the article, and that he has continue to openly talk about in interviews since, is a real big tick for me. If he continues to stay on the track he is now on, I think he will pick himself in the leadership group in the next two years. Some people seem to deny others the chance to redeem themselves and make good, but I definetely don't. I think people who have taken the long way to reach their full potential can be equal, if not better leaders than those that have always made the right choice.

I would much prefer a 4-4 split.

Would love to see him get involved a little bit more as he appeared to do a bit of spectating at times last weekend. Having said that, he will prove to be a bargain as a PSD pick and I am hoping to see him in the bigtime sooner rather than later. Our last two PDS picks could very well prove to be inspired choices.

I've been a little concerned with Rivers form tbh. Some will see it differently, but IMO if we had all our players fit, I would stuggle to find a spot for him in the backline. I would have Garland ahead of him. Hopefully he can find his form or adapt to current forward set-ups, or do whatever he needs to do, because like most people he is a real favorite, but right now he seems to be struggling.

The problem is that when 3 players charge in to tackle, we leave at least one oppisiton player nice and open to receive a handpass over the top. That player then has an eternity without any pressure to move the ball forward. Pressure is caused by a player bearing down on you AND a lack of options. I hope it is a learning thing and our players can develop some more strategic pressure.

I have begun to get really frustrated with our tendancy to over commit players to the oppisition ball carrier. I have noticed numerous times in the last few games that several players will go and pressure the oppisition player with the ball, leaving free oppisition players for easy outlets. This wouldn't be so hard to swallow if the free player/s wasn't so often on the attacking side of the contest. I feel we have to get a lot smarter in the way we put pressure on the player with the ball. Yes, we have to force him to dispose of the ball, but we can also create pressure by reducing the options he has. I would like to see our players think a little bit more before chasing the man with the ball. If a teamate is already heading to the ball carrier, start to limit his options by staying close to his possible outlets. Is anyone else noticing this? It's really beginning to frustrate me, even more than our poor disposal.

I'm a big fan of Martin also, but think he will be able to learn his new position just as well at Casey. Perhaps even better as there will probably be more opportunity (Insdie 50's). I really, really hope this kid makes it. He seems to be a fascinating person (his IQ is probably more than the combined IQ of the Collingwood cheersquad) and I am a sucker for late starters and low draft picks coming good.

I agree he has been showing that he has a good future, but I think in order to help him develop he needs both time at the AFL level to get familiar with the speed, hardness and pressure, but he also needs games in the VFL where he can spend far longer in the midfield (which appears to be his destination). He isn't getting a hell of a lot of TOG and possessions at the moment for Melbourne, so I think it would be good for him to rotate between AFL and VFL to benefit from both levels. I think that is the best way to get our young midfielders (and to some extent forwards) to develop. Our young backs are seeing enough of the ball at the moment to fast track their development, as long as they don't lose confidence.

I hope we can find room for Newton and Cheney. I wouldn't be too upset if Robbo has played his last AFL game. Perhaps Maric could do with a game back with Casey.

Awesome thread guys. Highly amusing. I never imagined people would start bragging about IQ scores during a discussion about team selection. I only really have one thing to add. IMO Bell will do well in a half-forward or attacking midfielder role. His temperment just wasn't cut out for work deep in the backline under the pressure we have been under in the last few seasons. I am really hopeful he will flourish away from the pressure and hope he can resurrect his career.

Yes he is a great clubman, with a great work ethic. Yes, he is good in the clinches and wins the contested ball but... 1. Far too often he butchers his kicks (and often his handballs as well). Good, consistent disposal is becoming more and more the most valuable skill in football, and too often Brock totally duffs his chances. People moan and whine about forwards (Newton) missing gimme shots at goal and then the same people turn a blind eye when midfielders miss targets by 10 metres. In the last two weeks in particular, Brock has cost us shots at goal because of poor disposal. It is not something that has always been evident in his game (or perhaps his work ethic covered it up?) but it seems to be happening far to often at the moment. Supporters from other clubs are noticing it as much as I am. 2. His leg speed is becoming a real worry. He really labours and almost looks in pain when chasing down the loose ball. I really hope it is an injury and he can rectify it, but it is a real concern. If both of these things can be sorted out, and return to the level they were 2-3 years ago then he will be a vital piece in what will be a good time for the MFC. If however he continues to struggle with his disposal and can't improve his leg sped, then he may miss the boat. Trade him? No. His value won't be there if he doesn't regain his mojo. He will be too valuable to us to trade if he does. Rest him to get his body right, if indeed it is an injury issue? Part of me says yes, because I hate seeing him struggle so much, but for now I think we need him out there for his experience. I wouldn't be surprised to see him finish the season early for surgery though.

Not sure if this is a good example of the point you are trying to make Freak. Both kicks cost goals. The bad kick in the backline can lead to a goal to the oppisition. A bad kick into the forward line can cost your own side a goal. I get just as annoyed when someone duffs a kick to a wide open player 20m out as I do when someone does a bad kick-in directly to an oppisition player.